C:SM update for DA

[xnickbaranx]

 

 

 

Look not upon our past sins (or GWs)

Look to your battle brothers and objective before you...

I think it's good to remember that time was hard, what we survived from and be happy with what we have now...

 

 

It is good to remember those dark times because some are already forgetting and new recruits do not know...  but the other side of the coin is that we as a faction also have taken the role of "victim" "downtrodden" and "underdog" and just don't realize how good this book is.  They need to set those feelings aside and get out there and play and find what works.  How many threads whining about Grav weapons, White Scars and the like have we had?  

Too many.  Too many to count, even.  Most of them were probably started by people who used C:UM to field their DA models last edition.  They should do the same this edition or please be quiet already.

 

I think its safe to call those turncoat army jumpers... chumps.

 

I will say I was stoked when the 4th Edition Codex came out even with the streamlining that Jervis did. It was the beginning of trying to insert synergy into the army list and I was extremely excited out of the gate. Then C:CSM got marines with bolters, bolt pistols, and chainswords and then C:SM came along with, well, everything...

 

Still, it wasn't until the tail end of 5th Edition that I felt like we were seeing our darkest days since the original 3rd Edition Intractable rule.

 

I still remember standing inches away from crossing into the "scoring zone" in a Breakthrough mission and failing an Intractable roll to have my Tactical Squad choose not to win the game, but instead dig in their heels and blast away at the opponent instead. So maddening!

 

But those dark days are behind us.

 

But to Primacy... Most old Dark Angels players have endured painful incarnations of our beloved army and we've stuck through it because we love them - the background, the look, and in ways being the black sheep - not because of some tactical advantage. Generally, we want our codex to increasingly be unique and interesting and to highlight our differences more than focus on our "sameness". I know I'm very passionate about them - they've been my primary 40K army for 17 years or so, and neither of my other 2 armies have the same level of emotional investment (or investment of time and resources!) I think that's hard for some people to grasp in 2013 where people constantly cycle through "what's hot in the tournament scene" based on competitive edge. At least that's how it seems to me.

[Brother dean]

Agreed.  When the time came to downsize (I'll never get round to actually painting all this crap) I parted ways with a 1k sons army, a decent unassembled Crimson fist army was broke up into pads and marines and sold, and a RW Attack Squad was sold.. (they were a fast way to lose at the time)

 

If it was painted green or was TDA or Cadian it stayed...  

[MadMek83]

....and they get access to the Teleport Homer

 

 

* hides under table *

*snickers* each of our ravenwing bike has  inbuilt teleport homer... Bikes are tad more surviving these days than scouts. But seriously. Ever since new C:SM book came out, I've felt better for my C:DA. While White Scar tactics seem to be so good... Meh our bikes maybe more expensive but they got teleport homers, our bikes can have plasma talons and ah, the lovely corvus hammers.

 

We got power field generators, we can take tech marines per HQ, not fill HQ slot. They have access to special issue war gears. Its the little tibbets in C:DA that makes me love codex more and more... And the fact Black Knights are fearsome, breaking almost each and any opponent. I am proud to be part of the first legion. I don't need grav guns for that or centurions. In my army's hand, humble boltgun has become more feared weapon than melta, plasma... It has become weapon of mass destruction. Not too many army can say that. Nor too many chapters can expect to go toe to toe with fire warrio cadre and outshoot them making tau players blink and go: "what just happened?" or "excuse me, how many shots?"

 

I answer everything my opponent throws at me with bolt guns, plasma and wrath of the Death wing descending upon my enemies with help of the Ravenwing. My sacred standards will fly proudly over the bloody corpses of my enemies in the name of the Lion and the Emperor.

[Magos Valkamar]

 

 

 

Look not upon our past sins (or GWs)

Look to your battle brothers and objective before you...

I think it's good to remember that time was hard, what we survived from and be happy with what we have now...

 

 

It is good to remember those dark times because some are already forgetting and new recruits do not know...  but the other side of the coin is that we as a faction also have taken the role of "victim" "downtrodden" and "underdog" and just don't realize how good this book is.  They need to set those feelings aside and get out there and play and find what works.  How many threads whining about Grav weapons, White Scars and the like have we had?  

Too many.  Too many to count, even.  Most of them were probably started by people who used C:UM to field their DA models last edition.  They should do the same this edition or please be quiet already.

 

I was one of those who used the last SM codex to field my Unforgiven, but I'm sticking with our latest book. To be fair our last codex was supposed to be "less means more" but in reality in was "less means less, a LOT less".

 

My desire for grav guns is more a minor OCD than any real need for them. The stalker and hunter? The want for better anti-air, which can be solved by fixing the Nephilim. Or by giving us Mortis Dreadnoughts. As for the centurions... I'm not a greedy man, so they can keep those.

[Onisuzume]

I listen to your words venerable brothers and rage swells in me that other charpters so easily "stole" our secrets in the past and begun to use our tactics.

Tactics?

Not just tactics, also our own exlusive equipment like the Land Speeder Tornado (2nd-3rd edition).

[IanSturrock]

It's a shame we can't field grav weapons, given our supposed access to ancient tech. But it's not exactly a dealbreaker. I'd rather have Black Knights than White Scars with grav guns, any day.

[march10k]

 

I listen to your words venerable brothers and rage swells in me that other charpters so easily "stole" our secrets in the past and begun to use our tactics.

Tactics?

Not just tactics, also our own exlusive equipment like the Land Speeder Tornado (2nd-3rd edition).

Doh...forgot to list that one!

[Onisuzume]

 

 

 

 

I listen to your words venerable brothers and rage swells in me that other charpters so easily "stole" our secrets in the past and begun to use our tactics.

Tactics?

Not just tactics, also our own exlusive equipment like the Land Speeder Tornado (2nd-3rd edition).

 

 

Doh...forgot to list that one!

 

 

Never Forget, Never Forgive.

Loyalty is its own reward.

Praise the Lion.

[Isiah]

IanSturrock, on 28 Sept 2013 - 12:45, said:

It's a shame we can't field grav weapons, given our supposed access to ancient tech. But it's not exactly a dealbreaker. I'd rather have Black Knights than White Scars with grav guns, any day.

Indeed the DA are in a very good position at present. Yes there might be some minor mismatches between codexes but on the whole we are once again competitive and more than playable in a variety of builds which is more than could be said of where we were a year ago hmm ?

Seriously, the Grav guns issue isn't an issue for me - it falls into the category of "it would be nice if ..." rather then outright deal breaker. Same goes for the new SM AA vehicles.

In fact I always worry about being too close to C:SM. I like being slightly off the beaten track . We've kind of got used to different unit and little weapon, stats, points and transport capacity idiosyncrasies in the past and just got on with things in true Unforgiven (Stubborn) style.

For me I'm happy to continue that way too with this Codex. Our cake is pretty well iced at present - let's just enjoy its flavour .

Cheers

I

[Tanhausen]

At a tournament this saturday I faced a Marines/Tau list in the last round, table 2.

 

He did win but mainly due to a couple tactical mistakes on my side and him being a really good player. The end result was 12-4, which sounds harsh, but if you take into account that there were 5 objectives and that he denied me 2, grabbing 3...it was pretty tight.

 

When commenting on the battle and so, he agreed that the centurions hadn't really performed that much. It took 3 centurions, 2 techmarines (IC after losing their Thunder Cannon) and 40 kroot to handle 20 marines (4 combat units of 5). True, I supported the area with a long distance WW...but still, it was something like 400 points on my side vs...a million on his? hehe

 

He also carried 2 units of bikes with double grav (7 and 8), each with a chapter master in bike, artificer armour and some of the new shenanigans (weird swords and all). THOSE units were a killer.

 

But not because of the gravs (that's why you deploy terminators with a couple of shields first, kids) but because of the masters in bike who shredded units like there is no tomorrow...and then hit and run.

 

Best unit by far in our codex right now are the black knights...that ain't no surprise.

 

But I agree with something someone said in the thread (jsut read the 3 pages, not going back to look who):

 

People nowadays are used to just dumping what they are told is good, spam it till you choke and ride the "Bandwagon Dragon" till the high runs off...trade/sell/steal the new shinny toy and rinse/repeat.

 

Each of the models I carry to the table has been carefully built, painted, posed, based, etc... I'm not a good modeler or builder or painter...but ANYONE who picks up a model of mine know I can tell a story about most of them and how that dang [insert problematic item to paint] ruined my life for 2 days :)

 

I'm an extremely copmetitive player: I LOVE winning. Not at all costs...but at tournaments you do have to put your "dog-face" sometimes.

 

And though we're not a top tier army, I've yet to meet someone in a tournament who was glad to have a DA as opponent...it use to be because we brought 30+ TDA. Now its because of SoD and RW, or terminators, or combinations, or...which is a GREAT step IMO.

 

Enough love declaring for our boys for today ;)

[Lysere]

Would like to point out that the Techmarine with a Thunderfire does not have the rule that makes them an IC anymore. So unless the rulebook has a rule for artillery for that they end up on their own when the cannon dies and no way to join squads.

[captain sox]

I came over to the Dark Angels a few years ago, primarily for the fluff and cool models. The things the C:SM have that I wish we had aren't new toys, but the things like Land Speeder Storms, Scout Bikes and Thunderfire Cannons. To me, those seem way more useful, (and Fluffy) to our Ravenwing and shooty Heavy Support. Grav guns are meh, and Centurions really serve no point to me.

 

Now with that being said, I think our DA Codex is da bomb. DW Knights are fearsome, and Black Knights even more so. Our flyer is "meh" but still intimidating. I like that our Dex is unique, our units work well together, and we can really take on all comers... love thy bolter (and Plasma) and you'll be OK.

 

DA4Life

[Flake]

Regardless of what might be objectively true, our book (again) is definitely overlooked by the majority of players. Just like last edition, scoring a win with DA is more about seeing your opponent's reaction than chalking up a victory.

[MadDoc]

The only thing that is in the new C:SM that I want is for our Apothecaries not to have to stupidly trade their pistols for a narthecium...

[Master Avoghai]

Regardless of what might be objectively true, our book (again) is definitely overlooked by the majority of players. Just like last edition, scoring a win with DA is more about seeing your opponent's reaction than chalking up a victory.

Yeah... Indeed taking a farsight enclave codex is waaaaaay better to chalk up a victory.. Or a triple hell drakes with Abbadon + vets as troops...

It's not even chalk up a victory to say the truth... It's recruiting a damn good professional painter to make drawn up all the victory...

 

Come one... Is it the kind of codex you were looking for?

 

 

There's a main difference between the v4 codex and this one : no matter if the army list is good or bad, you can do whatever you like :

You're not obliged to play the tactical by groups of 5, you're not obliged to play your bikes by grous of 3... Hence you can build the army you want and put the models you like without thinking "damn I miss 10 pts to include this cool tech marine but I can't remove a marine from my devastator squad to do so, I must remove 5 marines but then I wouldn't have any abblative wounds"

 

So yes maybe I'll lose as often as with the crappy Jervis codex (please don't let this guy writing anything else that those uninteresting articles in WD)... But at least, I'll lose with an army that looks cool and with models I've chose to play with...

[Pyro X]

But they also get land speeder storms. Wtb

[Brother dean]

Land speeder storms do not fit our ethos and it isnt our way to put scouts into positions to learn things they shouldnt.  

[march10k]

I would rather have the PFG and dakkapole than grav weapons and AA tanks.  Nuff said?

[elphilo]

I'm actually surprised (and very happy) that SM didn't get the PFG. It seemed like that thing was the item to test in our codex and give to the rest of the SM. 

[InstantKarma]

Centurions are simply SMs with Tau Battlesuit envy.  With no ++ save, a few plasma shots and they are out of comission.

Althought I'm new to DAs, I have to say the thing that has hooked me the most is the aethetic of the models and the fluff of being the 'Almost always Loyal' chapter/legion.  Learning how to play with them and gaining enlightening from the forum here has been a real joy.

[hallodx]

But if centurions joined by our Supreme Master...oh well......

[Phoebus]

The only thing that is in the new C:SM that I want is for our Apothecaries not to have to stupidly trade their pistols for a narthecium...

Agreed. That, and two other things (in my humble opinion):

1. Seeing their Company Champion for the same cost as ours, but without a debilitating Initiative drop.

2. Company Masters getting access to Relic Blades to serve as improv Heavenfall Blades.

 

If they fixed those three things and gave Veteran Sergeants the option to buy a limited version of the Inner Circle rule (giving themselves the benefit, but not their squad), I would call our Codex perfect.

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

I agree are we perfect? No but if we were every power gamer would play us and it would get old quick. But we've got enough to keep us competitive I think. And if you really have to have it then you wouldn't have a problem Allying it in. Honestly I love our codex. I got to look at the new C:SM dex and the more I read and look at tactics the happier I am with DA. I will admit my next project is Space Wolves but hey everyone has your bi polar days right? Space Vikings one day serious Space Marines the next. However my main army will always be DA I think. I've got over a Company worth of stuff left to put together and paint and have that much built and semi painted already. Our fluff barely changed and we are still awesome. A group of people trying to do whats right at any cost hoping their mistakes don't come back to bite them in the @$$ while still fighting as our Primarch intended.

 

I would love to see the Champion fixed but I don't think it will happen until a new dex comes out and then who knows what will happen.

 

I would like Sternguard but I understand why we don't have them.

Thunderfires would be nice but I can see why we don't have them as well.

 

DWK are the awesome of sauce.

 

RWBK are even more awesome.

If I really need to field a champion I buy a Company Master and arm him properly (I can even give him an uber sword that may or may not smite things depending on my days dice)

 

DA are in a good place I think and I like how there is very little out there that is over the top compared to DA in the C:SM dex.

 

Tau are so bad I couldn't even bring myself to open the box of them I bought. I saw quite a few games played with and against Tau and honestly neither side had any fun really. The opponent was getting wiped by turn four and the Tau player barely had to use tactics. I'm not saying you can't beat them but If I build a decent list I will own pretty much anybody with it if my dice don't eek out on me or the other guy isn't blessed by the dice gods or General Patton reincarnated.

 

So rant over but let me just say everyday I come to this forum and look up DA stuff and get a little more happy with the fact that I kept going with my DA projects and the New Dex.

 

DoC

[march10k]

Gentlemen, if the only "deficiencies" in our codex are a weak company champion and the fact that company masters don't get relic blades, I say rejoice!  We don't have problems.  I'll bet every codex in the game has bigger complaints than that! 

 

Champions aren't worth the points even if they have C:UM statlines, and even with a relic blade available, I would still field a librarian with PFG instead.  Don't get me wrong, I love my company master, and he was my standard non-DW HQ choice in 5th, armed with nothing but a power sword (cheap at 115 points), but in this edition, if you're playing power armored DA, Azrael actually makes sense for the points (he didn't in 5th), and if you want cheaper, you go with the libby.  If you're going to start spending the points required to build a combat monster company master, you might as well take Azzy instead and benefit the entire army, not just one model. 

[march10k]

 But that leaves an opening to expand our list next time our Codex comes up - a DA specific troop transport flyer.

 

~snort~  Yeah, capacity: ten power armored marines, no termies allowed, and no assault ramp.  With AV11.  It'll be useless.