Daemon Princes and True Names

[Clone]

Hello all. I just have a quick question regarding Daemon Princes.

 

If you know a daemon's true name, you gain power over it. Does this rule apply to Daemon Princes that have been elevated from chaos marines? I just ask as I had planned for my night Lord daemon Prince to essentially be enslaved by his junior officer. I thought it would be a nice twist considering that Night Lords aren't too fond of the chaos powers and maybe would consider one of their own "selling out" to chaos as betraying the legion.

 

Also as no one used Angrons name against him on Armageddon, would I be right to assume that part of daemonhood is receiving a daemon name too?

[Tenebris]

Indeed it does, same thing why the ritual weapons used in so many human and xeno cultures have a debilitating effect on daemonkin. In short a True Name is the essence of a daemon, the word with which his patron god created it, willed it and can easily destroy it. It is the resonance of the soul and the being and this works for both mortals and immortals alike in 40k. To know a True Name is to know power over a being for it works like a shackle and thus places this creature under your command.

 

An example, the names of the Grey Knights are an anathema to daemons for they are made from letters and words which break the connection between the ethereal and the real. As I understand it for example Brother Varikus can very well be an anathema to a certain Sukirav, a daemon of Nurgle or it can work in a different way, but the point stands, a True Name is like a key to unlock a car, you can drive home with it. 

[Maelarion]

As you say, gaining power over a daemon by knowing it's true name is well established fluff.

 

There is precedent for daemon princes to also have the same Achille's heel as well.  In The Chapter's Due from the Ultramarines omnibus, it is revealed that M'Kar the Reborn was originally Maloq Kartho, a Dark Apostle that died during the battle of Calth.  This name is used against him, though it doesn't finish him outright, only weakens him.

[Fair Winds]

That is an excellent twist, run with it!

[daveNYC]

If a true name defines who you are, then as ascension to daemonhood would change who you are it would also mean your true name would change.

 

There's also the fact that it's highly unlikely that Angron or Magnus or any of them were the true names of the Primarchs.

[Vesper]

I like to think GK tried to use Angron's true name on Armageddon.

"I banish thee, Agrom... Argon ?... No, Anrgon !..."

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Perhaps that's why the Daemon Primarchs don't come out of the eye of terra, pretty much any loyalist marine could just shout their name at them and weaken them significantly.

[MaliGn]

But even the names of the primarchs are known to few outside their legions' sure their common names are, but as for true names, those are a more closely guarded secret look at Urizen, Lorgar and Aurelian.

[Fair Winds]

Perhaps that's why the Daemon Primarchs don't come out of the eye of terra, pretty much any loyalist marine could just shout their name at them and weaken them significantly.

I like to think they just don't care about what's going on in the mortal world

[Dam13n]

It is more conceivable that whichever god (or gods) elevated the champion either granted him a new "true name" or added a title in the chaos tongue to separate his "true name" from his old mortal name.

 

Alternatively, one's "true name" may be completely different from their mortal one and only those who have become one with the warp ever know their "true name".

 

In either case, knowing their mortal name would mean little (unless by a quirk of fate it's the same as their "true name")

 

The Primarchs make for good examples as each was given (or took) a adopted name when they were found, these almost certainly wouldn't have been the ones chosen by the Emperor (their 'father') or their "true names" by which their immortal souls would be known in the warp.

 

Although one could argue that Magnus, as warp touched as he was, could have known (and used) his true name.

[Warsmith Aznable]

I imagine it might have gone down something like this:

 

"I banish you, Angron, in the name of-"

 

"What's that? I can't hear you! Come a little closer and speak up!"

 

"I BANISH YOU, ANGRON, IN THE NAME OF-"

 

"Almost, but you need to come closer! I hear your voice but I can't quite make out the words!"

 

"I BANISH YOU- OH EMPEROR THIS IS PAINFUL! WHY DID I GET SO CLOSE!"

 

"HA HA HA HA HA HA! Blood for the Blood God!"

[Clone]

Thank you all for your replies, it's given me lots of food for thought.

 

My idea is that there is a schism forming in my warband between chaos tainted Night Lords and "pure" unaltered Night Lords. In an effort to stop the taint, gain revenge and simply because a daemon prince is too tempting a prisoner, the daemon prince was enslaved and is nothing but a weapon with no other option left to him/it but to find release in the utter carnage and brutality of melee combat. All this is despite the awesome power gained from daemonhood.

 

I'd imagine that the Beast is kept chained in the cargo hold of a ship until it is needed, a la Angron at the end of Betrayer. Just need to come up with a way that the true name is discovered.

[Kol Saresk]

To be honest, I'm not sure if a mortal has a true name. I imagine it would end up having to do something with the part of themselves they most identify with. But the closest we have to a "true name" being used on a daemon prince was when Ventris called out M'Kar's real name in The Chapter's Due. But it didn't do that much. The only reason he shouted it out was so Calgar could use the Shard of Erebus to inflict a True Death on M'Kar.

But, since nothing says no and nothing says yes, nothing says no.

[Warsmith Aznable]

Thank you all for your replies, it's given me lots of food for thought.

 

My idea is that there is a schism forming in my warband between chaos tainted Night Lords and "pure" unaltered Night Lords. In an effort to stop the taint, gain revenge and simply because a daemon prince is too tempting a prisoner, the daemon prince was enslaved and is nothing but a weapon with no other option left to him/it but to find release in the utter carnage and brutality of melee combat. All this is despite the awesome power gained from daemonhood.

 

I'd imagine that the Beast is kept chained in the cargo hold of a ship until it is needed, a la Angron at the end of Betrayer. Just need to come up with a way that the true name is discovered.

 

I like the idea of that. The commander goes too far down the rabbit hole of chaos worship, then a savvy sorcerer or rival uses some infernal technicality to enslave him. Very Tzeentchian.

[daveNYC]

Like a bound daemonhost, just dialed up to eleven.

[Brother Aiwass]

Very cool idea. Maybe you can paint little runic/esotheric inscriptions all over the DP's skin to represent binding spells? The collar with chains of the juggernaut fitted on the DP's neck would be cool as well.

[Clone]

Thank you all for your replies. I have settled on starting an Alpha Legion warband instead of a Night Lord warband. The premise of the Daemon Prince will still be the same but different legions. I think it sounds more of an Alpha Legion tactic.

[GhostMalone]

Well a true name is difficult as every action and title adds to it; the custodes for example have true names that extend for thousands of words.

 

I feel every nickname title birth name and that would contribute. That's what I feel is the idea behind it. The true identity of a person is through actions not words hence the custodes thing