Tonal Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 The watch pack would be the space wolves sent to watch over the legions that had Librarians in their ranks , for example we see the one that was sent to watch over the Blood Angels in Fear to Tread. The only thing good about that awful novel is that those SW get butchered I read the summay on the other site and I am very concerned...MAJOR SPOILER: Grammaticus stabs Vulkan to death with the magical spear...Vulkan is truly dead At least we have a pretty solid idea of what it means to collect all of Vulkan's relics now. Since one of them is his dead body, the others most likely form a machine to bring him back to life. That directly contradicts the Codex, though! It's clearly stated that he and RB argued privately about the Salamanders splitting as per the Codex Astartes and got them exempt, and then leading the Chapter for as much as three millennia before he penned the Tome of Fire and left. I cannot possibly see how that could even have been invented if he'd died long before the Heresy was even over. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281046-tallarn-and-unremembered-empire-is-up-for-pre-order/page/5/#findComment-3481443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 When was that? I don't remember any of that. I know that the Salamanders were never exempt, they were just too small to be split further. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281046-tallarn-and-unremembered-empire-is-up-for-pre-order/page/5/#findComment-3481457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I guess the new Codex? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281046-tallarn-and-unremembered-empire-is-up-for-pre-order/page/5/#findComment-3481460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareddm Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 The watch pack would be the space wolves sent to watch over the legions that had Librarians in their ranks , for example we see the one that was sent to watch over the Blood Angels in Fear to Tread. The only thing good about that awful novel is that those SW get butchered I read the summay on the other site and I am very concerned...MAJOR SPOILER: Grammaticus stabs Vulkan to death with the magical spear...Vulkan is truly dead At least we have a pretty solid idea of what it means to collect all of Vulkan's relics now. Since one of them is his dead body, the others most likely form a machine to bring him back to life. That directly contradicts the Codex, though! It's clearly stated that he and RB argued privately about the Salamanders splitting as per the Codex Astartes and got them exempt, and then leading the Chapter for as much as three millennia before he penned the Tome of Fire and left. I cannot possibly see how that could even have been invented if he'd died long before the Heresy was even over. Codices, along with everything 40k, have always been presented as propaganda, lies, and false remembrance. The Horus Heresy is intended as the truth, rather than what is remembered of the truth 10,000 years later. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281046-tallarn-and-unremembered-empire-is-up-for-pre-order/page/5/#findComment-3481469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonal Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Yep, new Codex's Salamanders entry. Mentions how Vulkan took Guilliman aside and reasoned with him to allow the Salamanders to be exempt. Then it has a section where it goes over how long Vulkan (according to -some- Imperial scholars, mind) stayed with the chapter, and how he left the Tome of Fire and relics with them. EDIT: Codices, along with everything 40k, have always been presented as propaganda, lies, and false remembrance. The Horus Heresy is intended as the truth, rather than what is remembered of the truth 10,000 years later.True, but as this is part of the Salamanders main entry, it at the very least brings the events in Unremembered Empire into question. Vulkan is a perpetual, after all, so any "true" death he might face should be in question if directly contradicted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281046-tallarn-and-unremembered-empire-is-up-for-pre-order/page/5/#findComment-3481470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Codices, along with everything 40k, have always been presented as propaganda, lies, and false remembrance. The Horus Heresy is intended as the truth, rather than what is remembered of the truth 10,000 years later. I understand that in-universe records of 10,000 year old events may be somewhat inaccurate ...but it gets annoying when authours always fall back on the "in-universe" excuse to justify the complete opposite of what's presented in the codex. The codex says that Vulkan argued with RG post-Heresy because he wanted an exemption for his Sallies. He then continued to lead the Sallies for a lengthy period of time before leaving. Now he's dead before the Heresy even ends?! This really means nothing in the codex can be taken seriously. Almost any bit of information in the codex can be utterly wrong, never mind some inaccuracies here and there...anything in the codex can be completely the opposite of historical truth. I find that incredibly annoying. It devalues the codex. Of course, if these retcons were cool and obviously superior to codex fluff...I'd be down. Killing off Vulkan just pisses me off on a personal level because he's a cool character, and now he's some dude in a casket. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281046-tallarn-and-unremembered-empire-is-up-for-pre-order/page/5/#findComment-3481536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogmagog Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I agree! If that what really happens it will kill the Horus heresy for me! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281046-tallarn-and-unremembered-empire-is-up-for-pre-order/page/5/#findComment-3481543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopkins Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 that summary on 4chan missed a vital point about vulkan a salamander is guarding the casket and he thinks he hears a single heartbeat. he waits, listens and wills it to return, but puts it down to his imagination now, it could just be that, and showing the optimism of the salamanders but it could be the start of another reincarnation when he landed on macgragge he had no life signs etc and was declared dead Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281046-tallarn-and-unremembered-empire-is-up-for-pre-order/page/5/#findComment-3481558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Vulkan is clearly alive, john g uses the spear at eldrads suggestion, reason being that when used by a perpetual it will heal rather than kill. John g dies using it, his life force is specifically described as being transferred into vulkan. Whilst john g is brought back by the cabal he is told he ia now entirely human with 1 life remaining. Sanguinius agrees to be the regent on condition that he can head to terra at the first sign of the ruin storm abating but hes only briefly in the final chapter which I was a little disappointed by lol. The varioua istavan survivors use the battle cry 'we march for macragge' which was cool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281046-tallarn-and-unremembered-empire-is-up-for-pre-order/page/5/#findComment-3481629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 You're assuming Vulkan is truly dead in a universe where a character (Erebus) died and was reborn just to perform a single ritual. He didn't even get cold...Ressurrection is the dish du jour here. And even if it isn't and Vulkan is truly dead, as long as it's well written - and it seems to be, with the added irritating (in a good way) bonus of this being another Eldar deceit - then there's no reason whatsoever to rage at this death. Codices are made to adapt to main narrative books. Let the Heresy novels guide the story. Rest will follow. On Curze It seems the Primarch gets to be a hurricane of death and combat pragmatism. Crowning moment of awesome for Curze, eh? He even finds a new meaning in life - become the Horus to the Imperium Secundus. Only part that irks me a bit is Curze being sucked into the warp out of nothing, near the end. But reading it in a summary is vastly different from reading the whole thing. Goddamit, though, he almost kills three Primarchs in the book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281046-tallarn-and-unremembered-empire-is-up-for-pre-order/page/5/#findComment-3481638 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopkins Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 curze has got incredible plot armour although we're back at square one now he's on macragge, he's pissed and there are now 3 and a bit primarchs in his crosshairs Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281046-tallarn-and-unremembered-empire-is-up-for-pre-order/page/5/#findComment-3481648 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Well, these next chapter of the Imperium Secundus should be awesome. Also, I like the Lion's portrayal (what I've read, at least) a lot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281046-tallarn-and-unremembered-empire-is-up-for-pre-order/page/5/#findComment-3481657 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 Well if it helps and I may be reading to much into the way he said it, I believe Laurie said something in the Seminar that alluded to Vulkan's plot continuing right till the end. I wouldn't take this as for certain though since it's easy to mishear what he said, additionally I could be interpreting it wrongly or he could of used the wrong wording, but imho I think that's what he was alluding to. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281046-tallarn-and-unremembered-empire-is-up-for-pre-order/page/5/#findComment-3481693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verity Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Probably be hard pressed to find a big character in Warhammer 40k who doesn't have pretty strong plot armour :P. Interesting stuff though, definitely looking forward to having the book...If just to read some more on Curze. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281046-tallarn-and-unremembered-empire-is-up-for-pre-order/page/5/#findComment-3481696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Yep, new Codex's Salamanders entry. Mentions how Vulkan took Guilliman aside and reasoned with him to allow the Salamanders to be exempt. Then it has a section where it goes over how long Vulkan (according to -some- Imperial scholars, mind) stayed with the chapter, and how he left the Tome of Fire and relics with them. EDIT: Codices, along with everything 40k, have always been presented as propaganda, lies, and false remembrance. The Horus Heresy is intended as the truth, rather than what is remembered of the truth 10,000 years later. True, but as this is part of the Salamanders main entry, it at the very least brings the events in Unremembered Empire into question. Vulkan is a perpetual, after all, so any "true" death he might face should be in question if directly contradicted.Maybe on the events of Unremembered Empire conflicting with the Codex. A very big iffy on the True Death. I say that because we have an example of a Daemon Prince and a being whose life was directly supported by the warp with both suffering True Deaths. So it is a possibility. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281046-tallarn-and-unremembered-empire-is-up-for-pre-order/page/5/#findComment-3481708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 Maybe it just stops him from being a perpetual and gives him one more life. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281046-tallarn-and-unremembered-empire-is-up-for-pre-order/page/5/#findComment-3481714 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I know covers are misleading, but is the moment of Sanguinius' nomination as cringeworthy and dubiously glorious as it appears in UM's cover artwork? Every spoiler until now strongly underlines how no one wants to lead this Secundus. And about that: Is Guilliman's mom depicted as the token (but very real) ruler's female relative who is more concerned about power than the ruler himself? Her suggestion for Guilly to found a second Imperium can either be a pragmatic point-of-view or an example of the above. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281046-tallarn-and-unremembered-empire-is-up-for-pre-order/page/5/#findComment-3481722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I think it's sweet Guilly has a mom. Now he and Angron have something to talk about when it comes to the great influences in their life. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281046-tallarn-and-unremembered-empire-is-up-for-pre-order/page/5/#findComment-3481740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonal Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I think it's sweet Guilly has a mom. Now he and Angron have something to talk about when it comes to the great influences in their life. I'm just imagining Guilliman and Angron hugging it out over a long crying session in which Angron reveals that the only reason he's so angry is because he's homesick and misses his mother. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281046-tallarn-and-unremembered-empire-is-up-for-pre-order/page/5/#findComment-3481746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Aye, it's a nice idea, but the fact that she was the one suggesting he create a new Imperium reminded me of the Alexander the Great Movie. Which isn't a pleasant thought, right from the start... Edit: When you mention Angron, you mean his daddy issues, right? He didn't have any human mom, to my memory, did he? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281046-tallarn-and-unremembered-empire-is-up-for-pre-order/page/5/#findComment-3481747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I was referring to the influence of female authority figures as Angron did have some "sisters". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281046-tallarn-and-unremembered-empire-is-up-for-pre-order/page/5/#findComment-3481752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Guilliman would just call Angron childish and all hell would be set loose in under ten minutes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281046-tallarn-and-unremembered-empire-is-up-for-pre-order/page/5/#findComment-3481756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel of Solitude Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I wouldn't call Narek Loyalist by any stretch of the word. His portrayal shows him fully supporting the Heresy, just not the consequences of the Word Bearers' new faith. I wanted to pick up on this. As I read through Vulkan Lives, I couldn't help but feel that they were trying to imply that Narek had plenty of opportunities to embrace the warp, but had chosen not to. All discussions on loyalty and motives were linked to fulfilling oathes, and not to anything more sinister. It might be a very big stretch, but I feel that Narek may be a potential Malcador recruit... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281046-tallarn-and-unremembered-empire-is-up-for-pre-order/page/5/#findComment-3481800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 curze has got incredible plot armour Yes, so does Batman Speaking of resurrections...actually Curze himself benefited from a resurrection of sorts. After the Lion slashed his throat, he seemed to be as good as dead but then Sevatar did his psychic Inception thang and brought Curze back from the other side Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281046-tallarn-and-unremembered-empire-is-up-for-pre-order/page/5/#findComment-3481809 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 So......... Vulkan is a Time Lord basically? The Lion joins with Guilliman in this. It seems the only truly loyal Primarchs might have been Dorn and Ferrus Mannus. Oh, and Guilliman broke the Nikaea edict as well. It's nice to see everybody loyally following the Emperor's Orders. I guess if Magnus the Red was considered a traitor for breaking it, then Guilliman, the Lion, The Khan, and possibly Corax should all be considered traitors then. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281046-tallarn-and-unremembered-empire-is-up-for-pre-order/page/5/#findComment-3481826 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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