rpnightsend Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 So I've been considering DarkShrouds a core part of my army (I run dualwing with a front-line of bikes), but I noticed the FAQ recently that removed Stealth from their rules. Now I'm a bit worried as only a 5+ cover on the first turn (Unless I have first turn) seems pretty iffy to me . What does everyone else thing? Viable? Situational? Useless? For me personally I always have space in the Fast Attack Slot of my army, its whether those points may be used elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 They are awesome, definitely not useless What is the dual part of your wing? RW/GW? One of the variations of my 1850 list I run is running 2x Darkshrouds (Heavy Bolters only). If you don't get first turn, start the DS in reserves or deployed at the very back (may not help given something like a lascannon). Don't forget you can deep strike it on your bikes the first turn (which I'm assuming you scouted). The only time I've found them situational is dependent on map terrain. If you have a lot of ruins/area terrain it'll be great, but if it's more of an LOS type of map its different. I used to run them as a support for my GW gunline, but I found the 80 points to a little too costly for what it was doing for me, a librarian on a bike with a PFG costs slightly more, but can do more for you. As I said I run 2 of them usually 6 inches away behind my bikes, usually my black knights (squad of 8+huntermaster). There's a bit of RAI/RAW work going on here. The rule says that Shroud of Angels "does not affect the Darkshrouds themselves". I interpret (and others I've talked to) that to mean Darkshroud A gives stealth to Darkshroud B, and vice versa, but Darkshroud A does not gain a bonus from Darkshroud A's Shroud of Angels. Now instead of 80 points of wargear doing nothing in my FA slot but giving stealth, I've got 160 points giving out stealth in a 12" bubble (6+6) putting out 6 heavy bolter shots against rad charged units. Obviously against armies like Tau it's a little different, but an army like this has proved successful against heldrakes -- as in not being completely wiped out but 'hanging in there' Again if you bring them in a non-RW army you may not see a "return" on it as much as you'd like. The only other combo I feel it works with is reinforcing a Dev squad in ruins, but again I'd probably spend that 80 points elsewhere on a dedicated transport or an extra terminator or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flake Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 I used to run one - and loved it! But there's just too many things out there that ignore cover these days and it's a pretty obvious target for any Tau and Eldar player looking to get first blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 If you go up against an army that doesn't have a ton of ignores cover they are really useful. If you do go up against someone with a lot of ignores cover, they're really expensive heavy bolters. If you want to run one, the max I would do is 2. They take slots away from the Ravenwing Black Knights, which are the workhorse of our codex. Otherwise I think they're a valid option, just don't upgrade them, leave them as cheap as possible. Because lets face it, they're still only AV10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Very useful... Although apparently I am spending 20 points too much on them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Very useful... Although apparently I am spending 20 points too much on them.... I guess this is a YMMV situation. I'm just not sold on spending the extra points on it, especially in a tournament environment where those 20 points could go to other things. And you don't know who you're facing from game to game. Thats why I suggested to keep it cheap as possible :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 See my avi? Any AC is a good AC... But sometimes you just cant find the points, like the last game I played.. but I have misplaced my heavy bolter or I would use it more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Normally I'm 100% behind you. If you can get an AC, take the AC. But on a speeder that is giving a cover aura, I think you'd like the range of the HB. My fear, like my fear of all land speeders, is bolters have the chance to take it down. If you can stay out of that medium range sweet spot so many armies have, you're a lot more survivable. Like I said though, YMMV :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpnightsend Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 They are awesome, definitely not useless What is the dual part of your wing? RW/GW? If you don't get first turn, start the DS in reserves or deployed at the very back (may not help given something like a lascannon). Don't forget you can deep strike it on your bikes the first turn (which I'm assuming you scouted). DW/RW. How can they deepstrike on turn 1? I don't see a rule for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 sorry, brain lapse, I meant on your first reserve turn. in the end though if you are deep striking terminators they wil most likely be shot at over your darkshrouds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Normally I'm 100% behind you. If you can get an AC, take the AC. But on a speeder that is giving a cover aura, I think you'd like the range of the HB. My fear, like my fear of all land speeders, is bolters have the chance to take it down. If you can stay out of that medium range sweet spot so many armies have, you're a lot more survivable. Like I said though, YMMV :)Added to that AC gives a scary aspect to your shroud, because everybody knows the damage an AC can do... So it is likely to make your opponent shoot at it... HB is often underestimated and don't give the sticker "priority target" to your speeder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Normally I'm 100% behind you. If you can get an AC, take the AC. But on a speeder that is giving a cover aura, I think you'd like the range of the HB. My fear, like my fear of all land speeders, is bolters have the chance to take it down. If you can stay out of that medium range sweet spot so many armies have, you're a lot more survivable. Like I said though, YMMV Added to that AC gives a scary aspect to your shroud, because everybody knows the damage an AC can do... So it is likely to make your opponent shoot at it... HB is often underestimated and don't give the sticker "priority target" to your speeder Yeah, that was my thinking as well. I just didn't express it very well :P :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 No problem we'll say it acohol's fault... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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