Verythrax Draconis Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Events/Games_Day_UK_2013.htmlJust because they have two color schemes? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281063-why-do-the-word-bearers-appear-twice-in-the-poster/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Yes. One is for the Legion as a whole (grey) and one is for the Gal Vorbak. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281063-why-do-the-word-bearers-appear-twice-in-the-poster/#findComment-3477878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 I think it's to show when the heresy started. The Word Bearers were still grey when they were heretics, that is when the heresy started, the Luna Wolves were loyalists and the change between them and the Sons of Horus was marginal since their first fight after becoming the Sons of Horus was Davin when he was corrupted. The Colour scheme used both the Word Bearers were both traitor colours, however the Sons of Horus and Luna Wolves were separated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281063-why-do-the-word-bearers-appear-twice-in-the-poster/#findComment-3477890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verythrax Draconis Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 Ok, I just don't understand why be that explicit - it's not like they are showing the Catulan color scheme as well, for example.maybe the necessity to use 10 PAs in the poster design was the deciding factor ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281063-why-do-the-word-bearers-appear-twice-in-the-poster/#findComment-3477894 Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_r_parker Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 I think everyones reading too much into it, and they just needed to get 10 suits of PA in the picture to make it look symetrical. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281063-why-do-the-word-bearers-appear-twice-in-the-poster/#findComment-3477896 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 It's because we're the coolest legion, obviously. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281063-why-do-the-word-bearers-appear-twice-in-the-poster/#findComment-3477902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 It's because the Catulan Reavers were just a squad for the Sons of Horus. That and it would be mistaken for the Black Legion. The Gal Vorbak are much more important to not only the Word Bearers Legion, but also the storyline of the Heresy in general. Also, the Legion as a whole takes the color scheme after Isstvan V, so really it shows the complete transformation of the Legion. No other Legion changed their scheme mid-Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281063-why-do-the-word-bearers-appear-twice-in-the-poster/#findComment-3477905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Yeah it's kind of annoying that they put Luna Wolves on one side and the two color schemes of the Word Bearers on the other. I think they could still have made a symmetrical poster with only 9 per side. It's kind of a misnomer to say the Luna Wolves are on the loyalist side, seeing as they stopped being the Luna Wolves after Horus became the Warmaster at Ullanor. Also even though the word bearers had two color schemes at the start of the heresy, it quickly becomes common practice to paint their armor crimson with silver trim. Even though I'm sure they just wanted to balance things they could easily have put the symbol at the top and the 9 legions below it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281063-why-do-the-word-bearers-appear-twice-in-the-poster/#findComment-3477912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Foes Remain Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Was I the only one who thought to do this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281063-why-do-the-word-bearers-appear-twice-in-the-poster/#findComment-3477914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 No other Legion changed their scheme mid-Heresy. That's not for certain, we still have yet to see what the 1k Sons and World Eaters do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281063-why-do-the-word-bearers-appear-twice-in-the-poster/#findComment-3477915 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Yes. One is for the Legion as a whole (grey) and one is for the Gal Vorbak. Â It's not simply the Gal Vorbak. The Blessed Sons were the first to wear the crimson colors but over the course of the Heresy, it was the entire Legion that bor the colors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281063-why-do-the-word-bearers-appear-twice-in-the-poster/#findComment-3477977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 It's kind of a misnomer to say the Luna Wolves are on the loyalist side, seeing as they stopped being the Luna Wolves after Horus became the Warmaster at Ullanor. The Emperor suggested he do so at Ullanor, but it was some time afterwards that Horus actually made the change. The first act of the Sons of Horus was Davin's moon, which was also the first step of their fall. The Isstvan III Loyalists renamed themselves the Luna Wolves. So it would be accurate to consider the Luna Wolves loyal and the Sons of Horus traitors, as there were no traitor Luna Wolves and all of the loyal Sons of Horus reclaimed the Luna Wolf name. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281063-why-do-the-word-bearers-appear-twice-in-the-poster/#findComment-3477994 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Â Yes. One is for the Legion as a whole (grey) and one is for the Gal Vorbak. Â It's not simply the Gal Vorbak. The Blessed Sons were the first to wear the crimson colors but over the course of the Heresy, it was the entire Legion that bor the colors. Â Yeah, the entire legion is crimson by the time they hit Calth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281063-why-do-the-word-bearers-appear-twice-in-the-poster/#findComment-3477997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Â It's kind of a misnomer to say the Luna Wolves are on the loyalist side, seeing as they stopped being the Luna Wolves after Horus became the Warmaster at Ullanor. The Emperor suggested he do so at Ullanor, but it was some time afterwards that Horus actually made the change. The first act of the Sons of Horus was Davin's moon, which was also the first step of their fall. The Isstvan III Loyalists renamed themselves the Luna Wolves. So it would be accurate to consider the Luna Wolves loyal and the Sons of Horus traitors, as there were no traitor Luna Wolves and all of the loyal Sons of Horus reclaimed the Luna Wolf name. Unless I'm wrong, wasn't Loken the only surviving Luna Wolf? Even if it was only a handful of dudes, thats hardly enough to warrant a place on that poster as if they were some great component of the loyalist faction. By that logic Iron Warriors should be over there based on the actions of Barabus Dantioch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281063-why-do-the-word-bearers-appear-twice-in-the-poster/#findComment-3478039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 The heresy started with the Word Bearers, during this time the Luna Wolves were loyalists, it wasn't until Davin they'd fell and by that time they were Sons of Horus, so it technically makes sense that they included the Luna Wolves as loyalists if you started the clock for the heresy when Lorgar enters the Eye of Terror and exits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281063-why-do-the-word-bearers-appear-twice-in-the-poster/#findComment-3478044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carach Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 loken and whats his face old fella that got away (ashamed ive forgotten his name as he is one of my fav characters from the early series) - those are the only 2 concrete. more loyalist death guard escaped than luna wolves/sons of horus heh (with garro) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281063-why-do-the-word-bearers-appear-twice-in-the-poster/#findComment-3478049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Â Â Â It's kind of a misnomer to say the Luna Wolves are on the loyalist side, seeing as they stopped being the Luna Wolves after Horus became the Warmaster at Ullanor. The Emperor suggested he do so at Ullanor, but it was some time afterwards that Horus actually made the change. The first act of the Sons of Horus was Davin's moon, which was also the first step of their fall. The Isstvan III Loyalists renamed themselves the Luna Wolves. So it would be accurate to consider the Luna Wolves loyal and the Sons of Horus traitors, as there were no traitor Luna Wolves and all of the loyal Sons of Horus reclaimed the Luna Wolf name.Unless I'm wrong, wasn't Loken the only surviving Luna Wolf? Even if it was only a handful of dudes, thats hardly enough to warrant a place on that poster as if they were some great component of the loyalist faction. By that logic Iron Warriors should be over there based on the actions of Barabus Dantioch. As far as I know, only two, though I kind of wish it had only been Iacton Qruze and even then, it wasn't necessary. Â However, there were tens pf thousands on Isstvan. Since the first book was Isstvan III and the following two are on Isstvan V, those posters were at an event specifically about the Isstvans, and the Legion in question actually had a change of colors . . . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281063-why-do-the-word-bearers-appear-twice-in-the-poster/#findComment-3478055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 The heresy started with the Word Bearers, during this time the Luna Wolves were loyalists, it wasn't until Davin they'd fell and by that time they were Sons of Horus, so it technically makes sense that they included the Luna Wolves as loyalists if you started the clock for the heresy when Lorgar enters the Eye of Terror and exits. The "Heresy" doesn't start until Istvaan III. Were "heretical" things being done prior to Istvaan? Most certainly. But we're speaking about a specific historical marker. Pre-Istvaan III = Crusade Era. Post Istvaan III = Heresy Era. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281063-why-do-the-word-bearers-appear-twice-in-the-poster/#findComment-3478073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosRising Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Events/Games_Day_UK_2013.html  Just because they have two color schemes? Pretty much, yes. The Serrated Suns were the only chapter of W.B. to wear red and grey before the Heresy began. Everyone else wore that nondescript slate gray. It was the Serrated Suns chapter that first ventured into the warp. Those that survived the experience became the Gal Vorbak ("Blessed Sons" in Colchisian). Now I'll add my 2 cents *inserts two cents*  I have yet to find any clear explanation for how/when/why the rest of the Legion took up the red and grey/silver look. My own theories are that  (a) When GW first established red and silver as the W.B. colour scheme - back in The Day - I am not sure that Pre-Heresy & Heresy gaming were really in their plans. As a result, they were probably not too concerned with Legion history, so much as making the Traitor Legions more like "bad guy" space marines (just a bit more broken up but way meaner and spikier). Therefore, red & silver was *the* W.B. colour and only sometime later on did they decide "Oh...hmm. Let's flesh out their background a bit. Ah yes...only a fraction of them had this pattern. The rest had slate grey. Bwahahahaaha."  GW had a vague plan in mind but kind of decided to make up the rest as they went along (GW? Make things up on the fly? Nah...never). In this universe, GW had planned out enough W.B. history to know that the Serrated Suns would be red and grey and that everyone else would be slate grey. However, they didn't decide on how the transformation would occur and so it kind of just occurred by default, since everyone knew the "original" W.B. scheme, which would equate to Pre-Heresy Serrated Suns.  © Maybe there is some unstated fluff reason that has yet to be written down, in which the non Serrated Suns chapters decide (or are forced) to take up red and grey as their colors after the Suns re-emerge. Do bear in mind that there are references to that shade of red as Traitor's Red, so it could be something along this line - a mark of respect/honor amongst the W.B. and a proverbial middle finger to the False Emperor.  I tend to go with Theory C for the most part (not just because of the Traitor's Red references). Pretty much any timeline I have come across so far has indicated that in the "present" (ie the tail end of M41) there would be absolutely no chance of finding a surviving Serrated Suns marine in his original armour (with the exception of Argal Tal who joined up with the World Eaters after a bit and could just as easily be dead). Nonetheless virtually every Post-Heresy Word Bearer in existence has the same colour scheme as the original Serrated Suns. The reason I am making a fuss out of this is because other chapter icons and names have been given as being known and in use (a coiled lash, a quill with a drop of blood/The Quillborn, etc). So far I have not run into a single model representing any of those other W.B. chapters.  Sorry about the rambling post, but this was one time when something actually made sense to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281063-why-do-the-word-bearers-appear-twice-in-the-poster/#findComment-3478099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 I'm pretty sure the whole "Serrated Suns" thing didn't exist until ADB wrote "The First Heretic". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281063-why-do-the-word-bearers-appear-twice-in-the-poster/#findComment-3478105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Yeah it's kind of annoying that they put Luna Wolves on one side and the two color schemes of the Word Bearers on the other. I think they could still have made a symmetrical poster with only 9 per side. It's kind of a misnomer to say the Luna Wolves are on the loyalist side, seeing as they stopped being the Luna Wolves after Horus became the Warmaster at Ullanor. Also even though the word bearers had two color schemes at the start of the heresy, it quickly becomes common practice to paint their armor crimson with silver trim. Even though I'm sure they just wanted to balance things they could easily have put the symbol at the top and the 9 legions below it.Well, not exactly. At Istvaan III Loken an the other XVI Loyalists took up the name again, and then Iacton Qruze also took up the name IIRC. A secondary motivation could be that similar to the Word Bearers, the XVI had a second color scheme and a name change just as close to the Heresy.  Just ideas though, nothing concrete. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281063-why-do-the-word-bearers-appear-twice-in-the-poster/#findComment-3478125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosRising Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 I stand by Theory C, backed up by A (the practical side) - that it was ultimately a question of which colour scheme was the first one to be "officially" sanctioned by GW for hobby purposes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281063-why-do-the-word-bearers-appear-twice-in-the-poster/#findComment-3478136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Also, I feel the need to point this out. The Gal Vorbak scheme is NOT the scheme the rest of the Legion picks up after Istvaan V. At least, not exactly. In The First Heretic, the Gal Vorbak are said to also have a black helmet. Forgeworld has also added a bit more black to the scheme, but it is still its own unique scheme.  For example, the Gal Vorbak(and Chapter of the Serrated Sun):  http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc69/bleachit54/wb3_zps1b3ecbe2.png  And standard Heresy Scheme following Istvaan V(First seen at Calth and Armatura):  http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/BL/blog/2011/07/Know_No_Fear_huge.jpg  http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/BL/blog/2012/08/moc-large.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281063-why-do-the-word-bearers-appear-twice-in-the-poster/#findComment-3478149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Â Brother Heinrich, on 28 Sept 2013 - 01:46, said: WoT, on 28 Sept 2013 - 01:14, said: The heresy started with the Word Bearers, during this time the Luna Wolves were loyalists, it wasn't until Davin they'd fell and by that time they were Sons of Horus, so it technically makes sense that they included the Luna Wolves as loyalists if you started the clock for the heresy when Lorgar enters the Eye of Terror and exits. The "Heresy" doesn't start until Istvaan III. Were "heretical" things being done prior to Istvaan? Most certainly. But we're speaking about a specific historical marker. Pre-Istvaan III = Crusade Era. Post Istvaan III = Heresy Era. Erebus stealing the blade that would corrupt Horus, the Lodge meetings sowing decent Lorgar destroying worlds who would of been compliant easily. It may of not of been in the open but heresy was present before Istvaan III. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281063-why-do-the-word-bearers-appear-twice-in-the-poster/#findComment-3478329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 But the Horus Heresy did not begin until Istvaan III. It might not be the start of heresy, but it is the start of The Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281063-why-do-the-word-bearers-appear-twice-in-the-poster/#findComment-3478398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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