Appearance of overt chaos symbolism/corruption

[Urauloth]

I'm curious about the chronology of this kind of thing. It looks as though up until (and during) Istvaan V, most of the traitor legions were largely unchanged in appearance - the SoH were spikier in places, and obviously the Gal Vorbak were their own special thing, bit besides the EC that Fabius had been "improving" there wasn't a lot going on in the way of outwardly visible corruption as far as I'm aware.

 

The question is, then, when did it start to truly manifest, and how much would it have varied by legion? (quite a lot, I'm guessing - I'm still not sure the AL should look anywhere near as weird and spiky even in M41 as they do in depictions of them using the CSM kits)

 

I'm driving toward an agenda-driven point as well as looking for general musing as well, of course, because I want opinions on how much I can get away with in the Calth-era WB force I'm planning.

 

Calth was really where the legion showed its true colours (pun intended) as a whole, and came out into the open with the cultists and daemon summoning, and I figure there's a decent chance that some of the signs of corruption we know and love would have begun to manifest already; certainly not in the units sent to meet the XIII in the preamble stage, and not across the whole legion, but perhaps among the most favoured, and perhaps during the course of the campaign. The gods often like to show their favour in fairly immediate ways, and that much death and bloodshed and treachery must have been a banquet for them.

 

What I'm thinking is that some of the XVII who started the invasion in shiny new suits of power armour might have wound up looking a little... different by the late stages of the war. Not like M41 chaos marines, of course, just hints. I'd quite like feedback on that idea, since I'm still in the early planning stage for my Calth strike force.

[Lucien Eilam]

I remember a few comments in the BL books describing the Word Bearers at Calth looking different in any number of ways, but no explicit mention of mutation, just stuff about devotional text and iconography.

 

From what we've seen so far, external corruption seems to be all or nothing – we've had a few cases of possession or ascension, everyone else still looks just like a regular Marine. There might be internal changes – the Emperor's Children and their sensory addiction, Khârn's supernatural speed – but even the most extreme ECs are surgically altered by Fabius at this point, not mutated.

 

AD-B's story in Mark of Calth features a Gal Vorbak (apparently) wandering the battlefield examining fallen Word Bearers from different Chapters. It's probably the most concentrated source of Word Bearer descriptions available.

 

I imagine at this point the Ruinous Powers don't want anyone changing their mind before they're committed beyond redemption, so for now they'd stick to gifting Marines with power rather than cosmetic or debilitating mutations. Anything visible should probably be subtle and obviously useful.

 

When the other boot drops and they truly realize the price they've paid, that's likely to be a very significant moment in the story, covered in detail.

[GrandMagnus]

I think most of the physical mutations didnt appear until after fleeing to the Eye of Terror since the direct influence of the warp would be what kick-started the mutations such as horns, several eyes, faces appearing on the armour, etc. Up until then I think only the Word Bearers would have some sort of chaotic mutations while the rest of the traitors didnt change much except for maybe some chaos symbols and more barbaric man-made changes.

[Brother Captain Sirus]

If memory serves me correctly, calth era WB's just had red armour and lots of writing either on themselves, parchment or armour but not to the extremes of Erebus. Has been a while since I read no know fear. Other then that cataphractii terms would be one good choice as they are mentioned as being on calth.

[Conn Eremon]

I think it varies by Legions. The Sons of Horus and Emperor's Children were described as being as heavily Chaosified as they are in 40k at the start of Isstvan V, while the World Eaters and Death Guard were not. Word Bearers were as Chaosified as those first two by Calth, but the Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion? Not at all, yet. Who knows with the Thousand Sons.

[Kol Saresk]

I'm curious about the chronology of this kind of thing. It looks as though up until (and during) Istvaan V, most of the traitor legions were largely unchanged in appearance - the SoH were spikier in places, and obviously the Gal Vorbak were their own special thing, bit besides the EC that Fabius had been "improving" there wasn't a lot going on in the way of outwardly visible corruption as far as I'm aware.

 

The question is, then, when did it start to truly manifest, and how much would it have varied by legion? (quite a lot, I'm guessing - I'm still not sure the AL should look anywhere near as weird and spiky even in M41 as they do in depictions of them using the CSM kits)

 

I'm driving toward an agenda-driven point as well as looking for general musing as well, of course, because I want opinions on how much I can get away with in the Calth-era WB force I'm planning.

 

Calth was really where the legion showed its true colours (pun intended) as a whole, and came out into the open with the cultists and daemon summoning, and I figure there's a decent chance that some of the signs of corruption we know and love would have begun to manifest already; certainly not in the units sent to meet the XIII in the preamble stage, and not across the whole legion, but perhaps among the most favoured, and perhaps during the course of the campaign. The gods often like to show their favour in fairly immediate ways, and that much death and bloodshed and treachery must have been a banquet for them.

 

What I'm thinking is that some of the XVII who started the invasion in shiny new suits of power armour might have wound up looking a little... different by the late stages of the war. Not like M41 chaos marines, of course, just hints. I'd quite like feedback on that idea, since I'm still in the early planning stage for my Calth strike force.

Well, the differences do vary. Right before Istvaan V starts, the Kakophoni Noise Marines are born.

 

At Istvaan V, the SoH are ideologically becoming oriented around their warrior lodges, such as what we started to see at the end of Galaxy in Flames.

 

According to Deliverance Lost, some of the Word Bearers are beginning to experience mutations a few months after Istvaan V. A person in that squad with a horn, that one has a third eye, etc. in Vulkan Lives, after the events in Betrayer and his cameo in Fear to Tread(Give me your face!), we see that Erebus is starting to grow horns.

 

Now, eventually the World Eaters will fall in line and sooner rather than later.

 

The seed has been planted in the Iron Warriors. It will begin to show before Terra I imagine.

 

We all know when the Death Guard hit.

 

The ones to find out will be the Night Lords and the Alpha Legion.

 

As for the Thousand Sons, they began mutating at the end of A Thousand Sons. But their armor is still red at the moment.

[Russ Brother 92]

In A Thousand Sons it's stated (will have to find the exacts) that the mutations within the legion began when they arrived at Prospero upon finding Magnus, so although these weren't 'chaos-related' mutations, there were still some prosperine Thousand Sons who mutated and even devolved completely, hence why Magnus made the pact with the Changer of Ways.

[Kol Saresk]

IIRC, the Flesh-Change didn't begin at Prospero, it climaxed. In the aftermath, only one thousand survived. And then during the Razing of Prospero, only one thousand survived the Razing and the Flesh-Change that erupted during the Raze. However, on the Planet of Sorcerers, there was mention of them having actual mutations.

 

Although if the more "conspiratorial" side of A Thousand Sons is to be believed, the Flesh-Change was organized by Tzeentch from the get-go.

[Scribe]

I highly doubt there will be much whole sale corruption apparent in the Night Lords till post HH.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

The EC's noise marines began just after Istvaan IV at the culmination of Bequa Kensky's performance. I think this could safely be used as a "start point" for chaos mutation in the traitor legions.

[Kol Saresk]

I highly doubt there will be much whole sale corruption apparent in the Night Lords till post HH.

Yes and no. Maybe not wholesale as in wholesale mutation, but the seeds were most likely sown. After all, the average Night Lord is suppose be of the mind that using Chaos is an alright idea. They had to start somewhere.

 

But agreed, the Night Lords shouldn't(keyword) have anything like the Kakophoni, Gal Vorbak or Lodges.

[Chronotonic]

most of the night lords are just angry guys with a knife...that like to skin living stuff...

 

the mutated night lords are usually in a specilist cult...raptors comes to mind with the last Night lord novel by AD-B...

 

then those that fell completely to chaos and became Deamon Princes probably had more mutated Night Lords then other companies...

 

I had read somewhere that for all that the Night Lord Gene Seed was more stable then other loyalist gene seed...where I do not remember but it was something from GW...which the meaning is moot if it is old fluff anyway...haha

[Kol Saresk]

The Index Astartes article. And all that means is that physically, the gene-seed stabilizes most mutations. But, even in the case of a walking porcupine with fifty arms and no eyes, you could walk up, harvest the gene-seed and still have the possibility of harvesting unmutated gene-seed that will not pass on the mutations of its host.

[Brother Heinrich]

You also have to remember that a lot of corruption occurs after the Legions flee to the EoT. Night Lords and Alpha Legion remain outside the Eye for a good minute before the Ultramarines come to tell them off (Weird how the Ultras do that to both Legions). With the NLs it's going to be a much slower descent into corruption that occurs over a period of time spent in the Eye, their geneseed stability definitely helps in this.