Alternate history Nikea what if ?

[godking]

Having just read the latest part of scars  i have an interesting alternate history question.

 

What if at Nikea instead of Magnus Jagathai  (read the last part of scars ) spoke and he was able to convince the emperor to not disband the librarius but that the librarius would be bound by the rules that he set up.

 

Russ would probably have no issue with this as the Stormseers perform the same function as the rune priests with the biggest difference being that the stormseers do not hypocritically lie to themselves about the nature of their powers.

 

Mortarion would still rage against it.

 

How do things progress from here ?

 

Does the Heresy unfold in the same way now that the Sons of Horus and other legions would have librarians ?

 

 

 

[Scribe]

I dont think much would be different. Someone correct me if I am way off but Nikea is a bit of a ret-con isnt it? I thought the Librarians actually convinced the Emperor that they where needed originally.

 

The Heresy still happened, Prospero still happened, and up to 'current' in the series is pretty much the same.

[Chronotonic]

Welp by that logic Russ would have still been sent because the 1k sons would have still dug to deep and the wolves would have had to bring them to heel with Horus having Russ destroy instead of take down the sons like the original history...only other difference is a few extra librarians using their powers quicker instead of having to break their vows to their primarch and emperor before doing it anyway...maybe a certain dark angel chaplain would still be alive as well instead of being killed with a pimp slap from a pissed off primarch

[godking]

I dont think much would be different. Someone correct me if I am way off but Nikea is a bit of a ret-con isnt it? I thought the Librarians actually convinced the Emperor that they where needed originally.

 

The Heresy still happened, Prospero still happened, and up to 'current' in the series is pretty much the same.

I am not saying the Heresy does not happen but i think it would have happened differently with librarians in the mix.

 

Librarians may have been able to sense Chaos corruption before Lorgar was ready to start the heresy.

 

Magnus might not have attempted to contact the emperor in the way that he did breaking the wards of the palace.

 

The thousand sons would still have dug to deep but it would be harder to prove since spyker powers would not be outlawed unless Magnus still breaks the wards of the emperors palace there would have be more evidence for the emperor to send Russ after him.

 

The Ultramarines with librarians at Calth would have had a better defense against the Word Bearers.

 

The Lion would not have killed one of his own men.

[Scribe]

Librarians would have done what the Primarchs couldnt? In the old Fluff, with Librarians, Magnus still went too far and used Sorcery to break the wards, which is what caused his doom.

 

The Lion killing 1 guy doesnt change the Heresy.

 

I mean minor differences are minor differences, but would it have changed anything real and meaningful? I cant see it, because the original fluff (im 99% sure on) did have Librarians present throughout the Heresy, it didnt change a thing.

[DuskRaider]

I dont think much would be different. Someone correct me if I am way off but Nikea is a bit of a ret-con isnt it? I thought the Librarians actually convinced the Emperor that they where needed originally.

 

The Heresy still happened, Prospero still happened, and up to 'current' in the series is pretty much the same.

No, even in the old fluff, the Edict of Nikea ended with the Librarius being disbanded. "A Thousand Sons" just delves deeper into it.

[Scribe]

Really?

Where is the fluff from '3 Librarians came to the pulpit and the Emperor hid a smile' part? Did I make that up?

[DuskRaider]

I'm guessing, because from as far back as I remember, the Edict of Nikea banned the usage of Psyker Powers in the Legions.

[The Highlander]

Actually in False Gods (I think) Magnus says the reason he warned the Emperor psykickly(and :cussed up a lot of :cuss) was to restore the Emperors faith in psykers. Therefore, no Nikea, no damaged faith.

[The Highlander]

Actually in False Gods (I think) Magnus says the reason he warned the Emperor psykickly(and :cussed up a lot of :cuss) was to restore the Emperors faith in psykers. Therefore, no Nikea, no damaged faith, no need to go psyker.

Magnus fights for the Emperor cause he doesn't get bitch slapped by Russ.

Horus is defeated by early intervention, and doesnt have time to corrupt Fulgrim or Mortarion or what not.

[Chronotonic]

Fulgrim was being held by a major deamon mortarion just fell in line because of how close he was to Horus...

 

Heck magnus might still break the bonds because he knows of what was coming...still something of an outcome

[Conn Eremon]

Perturabo is really the only Primarch that I can see who Horus can actually say he got to follow him.

 

Angron and Curze were already destined to fall, with Horus' nudge being wholly unnecessary to get them to cross the line.

 

Alpharius Omegon, Fulgrum, Mortarion and Magnus fell to outside sources that Horus was only marginally required, if at all.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

Perturabo is really the only Primarch that I can see who Horus can actually say he got to follow him.

 

Angron and Curze were already destined to fall, with Horus' nudge being wholly unnecessary to get them to cross the line.

 

Alpharius Omegon, Fulgrum, Mortarion and Magnus fell to outside sources that Horus was only marginally required, if at all.

I tend to look at it this way - without the Librarius, the Legions were blind to what could've come. Yeseugi says as much when he talks about Ullanor, and how it wasn't there that Horus was corrupted, because he would've sensed it. 

[Scribe]

Again however, Librarians vs Primarchs. If warnings from a Primarch are being ignored (and they where) if intentions of Primarchs where being missed (and they where) nobody is going to listen to a Librarian, and no Librarian is going to be powerful enough in their own Legion or otherwise, to do anything about it.

[Emperor's Furor]

It states in Scars that Magnus went about it the totally wrong way. The Librarius was formed to withhold power not to explore it further, Khan wrote the rules for the Librarius and it's indicated that Horus or some entity masquerading as Horus ordered the Khan far away from Nikaea, so he couldn't vouch for the Librarius. Similar to how something was able to penetrate the complex and masquerade as a Thousand Son to further add fuel to the Space Wolves fire against them.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

Again however, Librarians vs Primarchs. If warnings from a Primarch are being ignored (and they where) if intentions of Primarchs where being missed (and they where) nobody is going to listen to a Librarian, and no Librarian is going to be powerful enough in their own Legion or otherwise, to do anything about it.

Not 'a' librarian. 'The' librarians. Cabals of Librarians can take down even the most psychically powerful Primarchs - look at the remaining Dusk Raider librarians fighting against Lorgar. They did pretty well.

[Wade Garrett]

 

Not 'a' librarian. 'The' librarians. Cabals of Librarians can take down even the most psychically powerful Primarchs - look at the remaining Dusk Raider librarians fighting against Lorgar. They did pretty well.

 

 

 

A. WAR HOUNDS Librarians. Not Dusk Raiders.

 

B. They were fighting a mentally and physically drained Lorgar, who was exhausted after shaping the forces required for Angron's ascension and being repeatedly punched by Roboute Guilliman. And he was still slaughtering them with ease until Lhorke intervened.

[Scribe]

Heh this topic is kind of blowing my mind.

 

1. Once Lorgar figured out (almost instantly) what was going on with the Communion (I believe thats what the entity called itself) he started popping Librarians one at a time.

 

2. You think your going to unify ALL the Librarians? You think that you could unify all the Librarians in a given Legion? What about the Traitors? Think they will just let the other Librarians act freely, and what exactly are they going to do?

 

Magnus could not stop the Heresy. Magnus. THE psyker Primarch. I just am at a loss as to what Librarians would do.

 

Would they be better served fighting against the Daemons? Perhaps. However as was mentioned Librarians are a limitation of power. Sorcerers are an exploration of the same power. When you cross that line your a Grey Knight traitor.

 

The Primarchs are made from the Warp, and even then it took the ones who where more astute to see when things fell off the rails (re: Lorgar and Fulgrim) and it was simply not that easy.

 

Librarians where there to contain the psyker strain, they did not explore the Warp, and they did not have full knowledge of the Chaos Gods or Chaos. I mean seriously, look at the Thousand Sons. A whole Legion caught navel gazing and sucker punched by Tzeentch, EVEN the Primarch.

 

Nikea doesnt do a whole hell of a lot is my take, other than give the excuse for razing Prospero.

[Piousservant]

I'm guessing, because from as far back as I remember, the Edict of Nikea banned the usage of Psyker Powers in the Legions.

Well the old IA articles didn't have the Edict banning the use of psychic powers. Under the IA background, the practice of sorcery was banned and the Librarius was established by the Edict to regulate the use of psychic powers.

 

Personnally I think the retcon makes a lot less sense. But since the Heresy happened under the old background, no I don't think this "alternate" Nikea would make much difference to the Heresy (aside from making more sense that is... :P).