Space Wolves Codex Disadvantaged

[Bloody Legionnaire]

And you're welcome to not respond or not open the thread if you are annoyed with the contents inside!

The idiot comment was for those who say that they hope the Space Wolves don't get flyers because they don't need them. Those who say all we need is flak missile or an anti-air vehicle. Anti-Air vehicle would most probably take up a HS slot.. meaning less slots for the Long Fangs. IMO giving anti-air capabilities to Long Fangs is going to make them more of a target priority and aren't terrible difficult to surpress or destroy. FA slots are definitely one slot that doesn't have a lot of competition for units... a Flyer is the better answer, for those of us who *actually adjust to the paradigm shift of 6th edition....

 

 

 

For the extremely specific purpose of reliably countering a single unit (the only good unit in an awful codex, in the case of the heldrake) then yes, you are going to have to look outside the SW codex (all the way to the 6E rulebook, which you should probably look into getting, because playing a game system without owning the rulebook for it isn't all that good an idea and the small rulebooks from the starter set aren't very expensive) but the fact that you've correctly identified the solitary and relatively easily remedied weakness the codex has doesn't mean that calling it a "disadvantaged" codex is reasonable or that people disagreeing with your conclusions aren't being "objective".

Lascannon longfangs buffed by divination average a 17% chance to outright kill a heldrake, better than either of the new AA units in the SM codex, better than a quad gun even with a high-BS operator. No non-SW models needed, no fortifications, no allies.

If you want an echo chamber about how terribly underwhelming and outclassed the codex is then tbqh you're probably going to be chronically dissatisfied with the discourse here, because it isn't, even if you impose metagame limitations on it by rejecting fortifications.

I mean, you know, putting it all politely.

 

If you payed any attention to my posts, you'd realize I agree with you about the long fangs... They have potential to die very easily and it's not the hardest thing in the world to get rid of them. The more the merrier, sure, however there are other units that suit my playing style and lists better than a 3 units of long fangs. 

it's not just the heldrake I have had issues with, and again, I have repeated several times now my other issues. I have said repeatedly that the heldrake.. while hurt was not what lost the game for me. However I really really disagree that ignoring them is the right tactic. I tried it, when you get no cover saves there's not much ignoring does. 

 

I have had some considerable trouble with flying monstrous creatures as well... the only other time I faced a flyer it was a vendetta and with the LR on the table it was very easy to ignore. The Vendetta is not anti infantry though, the ones that are.. cause big problems for us. 

[Wolf Guard Dan]

I think people came down too hard initially on the OP. So let's all take a step back.  Everyone calm down (including the OP).

 

OP, yeah I get it that Wolves are not in step with 6th edition right now. And I don't like taking allies either. There really isn't any Ally that feels right for wolves.  I have yet to face vs a helldrake in 6th. I think my best advice is pack leaders in TDA. Position them as best as you can to take the brunt of the bale flamer.

 

You may want to try a fortification.  Something with Interceptor may help. You get a shot before he can even do anything.  

 

People are defensive about our Wolves. They are definitely playable but could use a 6th edition fine tuning.   

 

Edit: FMC are tough. Try and ground them with bolter fire and then bring your big guns to bear.

[Wulfebane]

People are defensive about our Wolves. They are definitely playable but could use a 6th edition fine tuning.

 

I agree, and they will. It's a 5E codex in a 6E environment. Our time will come, we just have to wait patiently and make do with allies or fortifications in the meantime. At the very least, flakk will most definitely be somewhere in our new 'dex. 

 

The problem is calling the codex as a whole disadvantaged for the sake of one unit type - flyers. Yes, flyers are a complications, but to make a blanket statement that the whole codex is underwhelming is simply wrong.. and that is why there is such strong defense against the supposition.

 

(Oh, I like the part where we have to be more mature, then le giant facepalm smiley appears...)

[Bloody Legionnaire]

 

I think people came down too hard initially on the OP. So let's all take a step back. Everyone calm down (including the OP).

OP, yeah I get it that Wolves are not in step with 6th edition right now. And I don't like taking allies either. There really isn't any Ally that feels right for wolves. I have yet to face vs a helldrake in 6th. I think my best advice is pack leaders in TDA. Position them as best as you can to take the brunt of the bale flamer.

You may want to try a fortification. Something with Interceptor may help. You get a shot before he can even do anything.

People are defensive about our Wolves. They are definitely playable but could use a 6th edition fine tuning.

Edit: FMC are tough. Try and ground them with bolter fire and then bring your big guns to bear.

People are defensive about our Wolves. They are definitely playable but could use a 6th edition fine tuning.

I agree, and they will. It's a 5E codex in a 6E environment. Our time will come, we just have to wait patiently and make do with allies or fortifications in the meantime. At the very least, flakk will most definitely be somewhere in our new 'dex.

The problem is calling the codex as a whole disadvantaged for the sake of one unit type - flyers. Yes, flyers are a complications, but to make a blanket statement that the whole codex is underwhelming is simply wrong.. and that is why there is such strong defense against the supposition.

(Oh, I like the part where we have to be more mature, then le giant facepalm smiley appears...)

Thanks guys, this is all I was trying to get at. Wolves are my only Army right now and could be for a long time, possibly ever.. It's not like I am purposefully trash talking the Wolves. I am talking about what these guys are describing 5e Codex in a 6e environment.

I definitely made sure I had the TDA pack leaders and the guy swooped right behind them. It was his first game with the thing and he kept saying that it was ridiculously over powered and broken. Can't hate em for it, he's a good opponent and a really helpful player, it's just an advantage GW decided to give them. Would fortifications really do anything though? Because of the ignores cover rule?

Oh... I like my facepalm ala pbnation =D

[logun]

chin up old boy, ya win some ya lose some. i to met a horrible end at the hands of a hellturkey, this one had a 3+ invuln to boot(some chaos psychic power). and no the fortification didn't help but the runepreist on the quad gun did. i'm not a fan of the allies thing, so the quad gun it was. make the best of what is available to you, we are still IMO the strongest marine dex and when we do get our upgrade we'll be punching hell turkeys in the face(metaphorically) on every table accross the world. 

[Grimtooth]

I yet to have a Chaos player that has been able to debunk the argument that Heldrakes cannot target my Long Fangs on the upper levels due to how the torrent and template rules interact. However even without using the RAW against them, it still is not codex breaking.

 

1. Reserve your Long Fangs in twin-linked lascannon Razorbacks.

 

The Heldrake is coming in from Reserves so why not you as well. The turn you come in you disembark and fire with all weapons on the flyer that came out in the turn precious. If he flew off the board so be it, don't disembark. However you need to snap shot with 6's anyway so disembarking to fire is no biggie and neither is moving and shooting with the Razorback.

 

2. Twin-linked asscan Razorspam.

 

Load them up on the board. Moving and shooting again makes no big deal as you are already needing 6's and rending makes Heldrakes cry tasty tears.

 

3. Living lightning spam

 

Self explanatory with the addition of just keping them embarked to fire from the hatch is funny to think about.

[Grimtooth]

Oh and quit whining OP and deal with it.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I could have said the same about all those who whined and got butt hurt over the fact I said the 5e codex was disadvantaged... so quit being a little girl, unless you are one, that case continue on!

[SerEightBall]

Would fortifications really do anything though? Because of the ignores cover rule?

 The Aegis Line wouldn't, no, but the Bastion or the Firestorm Redoubt would. Both of them are Armor 14, so the Heldrake CANNOT even glance it, keeping your models inside safe. The guys on the battlements, not so much. The Skyshield Landing Pad in closed configuration gives you a 4++ Invuln. So they have advantages if you ever decide to play with them, and I say that having used them well, but not preferring to anymore.

 

Brother Ramses has a good point with the Razorback tactics. The greater 40k community pisses on Rhino chassis vehicles being worthless, I love my Rhinos/Razorbacks. Sure the pop easily, releasing that creamy Astartes filling, but they still fill the role they always have: cheap gun caddies that protect your units for a round or two of shooting and sometimes get them where they need to go.

[Max_Dammit]

The change in meta puts our dex on a back foot in that department but our dex is long from being outdated, a simple FAQ would fix it but as GW doesnt want to just adept or take the losses and make the chaos player feel good about his only good unit in the dex.

 

I played 3th ED dex in a 5th ED rules and still gave people a run for there money as did a lot of you here. We adept and wait for better easy days.

[Grey Mage]

For the extremely specific purpose of reliably countering a single unit (the only good unit in an awful codex, in the case of the heldrake) then yes, you are going to have to look outside the SW codex (all the way to the 6E rulebook, which you should probably look into getting, because playing a game system without owning the rulebook for it isn't all that good an idea and the small rulebooks from the starter set aren't very expensive) but the fact that you've correctly identified the solitary and relatively easily remedied weakness the codex has doesn't mean that calling it a "disadvantaged" codex is reasonable or that people disagreeing with your conclusions aren't being "objective".

 

Lascannon longfangs buffed by divination average a 17% chance to outright kill a heldrake, better than either of the new AA units in the SM codex, better than a quad gun even with a high-BS operator. No non-SW models needed, no fortifications, no allies.

 

If you want an echo chamber about how terribly underwhelming and outclassed the codex is then tbqh you're probably going to be chronically dissatisfied with the discourse here, because it isn't, even if you impose metagame limitations on it by rejecting fortifications.

 

I mean, you know, putting it all politely.

What this guy said. Seriously.

 

We have the technology, we can spank chaos, its just needing to know and take the right tools for the job.

 

Having our own flyer wouldnt suddenly make the helldrake less survivable or less killy.

 

 

 

Would fortifications really do anything though? Because of the ignores cover rule?

 The Aegis Line wouldn't, no, but the Bastion or the Firestorm Redoubt would. Both of them are Armor 14, so the Heldrake CANNOT even glance it, keeping your models inside safe. The guys on the battlements, not so much. The Skyshield Landing Pad in closed configuration gives you a 4++ Invuln. So they have advantages if you ever decide to play with them, and I say that having used them well, but not preferring to anymore.

 

Brother Ramses has a good point with the Razorback tactics. The greater 40k community pisses on Rhino chassis vehicles being worthless, I love my Rhinos/Razorbacks. Sure the pop easily, releasing that creamy Astartes filling, but they still fill the role they always have: cheap gun caddies that protect your units for a round or two of shooting and sometimes get them where they need to go.

DONT put them in a bastion. A flame template so much as brushes a firepower and the squad inside takes alot of automatic hits.

 

If you must resort to fortifications the skyshield is the only way to go vs helldrakes.

[Sturm Moonwolf]

I like my Hyperios batteries, the same cost as a Long Fang pack with missiles, and they are a fast choice to boot. Perfect for my mechanized army, who could care less about vector firing Helldrakes.

[SerEightBall]

DONT put them in a bastion. A flame template so much as brushes a firepower and the squad inside takes alot of automatic hits.

 

If you must resort to fortifications the skyshield is the only way to go vs helldrakes.

"Damn." SerEightBall said, looking up from his 40k Rulebook, "Have you guys read this thing? They've a rule for just about everything, and really makes you sound like a tool when you run your mouth without reading it closely." He silently closed the book, and stared blankly ahead.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

The change in meta puts our dex on a back foot in that department but our dex is long from being outdated, a simple FAQ would fix it but as GW doesnt want to just adept or take the losses and make the chaos player feel good about his only good unit in the dex.

 

I played 3th ED dex in a 5th ED rules and still gave people a run for there money as did a lot of you here. We adept and wait for better easy days.

 

By outdated.. I think we're struggling with communication and semantics again. I mean when it comes to the direction that GW is going in with new codex and their features. I know people have been complaining about the CSM codex, but there are many that think GW is doing an excellent job with all of the new dexes and are all very balanced. There are quite a few features I think we're missing which is not up to date (thus outdated) compared to the other Dexes. I am not trying to say Space Wolves are not competitive anymore, if that's what you guys were thinking.. my bad!

 

For the heldrake problem, I thought keeping them in Rhinos (Razorback would be the same) they would be safe. He then vector striked me and there was no longer any rhino for protection. That particular squad got shot and assaulted to nothing, so he didn't really cook them, instead he want straight for my LFs after the vector strike and they were done. 

[Grey Mage]

 

The change in meta puts our dex on a back foot in that department but our dex is long from being outdated, a simple FAQ would fix it but as GW doesnt want to just adept or take the losses and make the chaos player feel good about his only good unit in the dex.

 

I played 3th ED dex in a 5th ED rules and still gave people a run for there money as did a lot of you here. We adept and wait for better easy days.

 

By outdated.. I think we're struggling with communication and semantics again. I mean when it comes to the direction that GW is going in with new codex and their features. I know people have been complaining about the CSM codex, but there are many that think GW is doing an excellent job with all of the new dexes and are all very balanced. There are quite a few features I think we're missing which is not up to date (thus outdated) compared to the other Dexes. I am not trying to say Space Wolves are not competitive anymore, if that's what you guys were thinking.. my bad!

 

For the heldrake problem, I thought keeping them in Rhinos (Razorback would be the same) they would be safe. He then vector striked me and there was no longer any rhino for protection. That particular squad got shot and assaulted to nothing, so he didn't really cook them, instead he want straight for my LFs after the vector strike and they were done. 

We are ahead of the curve, besides flyers. All the new codices are built around expensive, customizable HQs, cheap as chip support HQs that buff like mad, and lean and efficient troops choices that do alot of the heavy lifting so the FA and HS slots can deliver a knockout punch.

 

We had all that before it was cool.

[Forté]

Sorry but did the OP say he didn't have the rulebook and admit to starting with 6th ed...

 

Ok. Here's a few things going against you in this thread.

-Don't write off what people suggest because you don't like it.

-Don't start insulting those trying to help you. It'll only go against you in the long run.

-Don't pick a fight with Ramses. He's been using SW for ages and has a lot of good ideas for using them. That and you won't win. And the thread will likely get locked for going off topic.

 

Just a question too. How many times have you gone up against the chicken delivery system? You do seem to be very focused on it.

[Sohail187]

I really do not see what the big fuss is about. Even though we have a 5th E codex, we are still capable of beating any of the codexs out at the moment. You just need to taylor your armies better.

 

*ART OF WAR QUOTE* if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles... if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle.

 

Nuff said to be honest.... *omg helldrakes* omg put your men in vehicles..... 

[Grey Mage]

Or use drop pods and bjorn, and be in the enemy lines before his dragon can show up.

 

Or use a divination wielding rune priest to give the important units a 4+ invulnerable save.

 

Or give them TDA wearing WGPLs to laugh at the flames.

 

Or suck it up, accept that a 180ish point model deserves to kill 3-4 models before it dies, and then down it with massed missile launcher fire from your long fangs and their Rune Priest spotter.

Or call in reinforcements and ally in IG, or C:SM, to get anti-air tanks.

Or use a Skyshield Platform.

Or hit him so hard with so much firepower turn one he doesnt get a turn two half the time. Whirlwinds laught at cultists hiding in cover, just sayin.

 

Play Loganwing.

Use terrain and massive amounts of bodies to flood the table so much he cant place his dragons where they want to go. Run a 90 fenrisian wolf in the troops section army, laden with thunderwolves who can shrug off the flames even if it does get a shot off at them, and hit his lines turn two with a cavalry charge that will give people braveheart flashbacks.

 

Ally in flyers from C:SM, C:BA *who make a darn fine 13nth company in tandem with a main SW force if I do say so myself*, C:IG. Rule the skies so hard they drop the bale flamers for something that can scratch the paint on your own dragon.

 

Dont put your men in tight little clusters that are ripe to be flamed.

 

Dont misconstrue an inability to take a particular unit type with an inability to kill said unit type. We dont have any monstrous creatures either, or artillery. I dont care. We dont neeeeed them.

Dont take so many shiny toys instead of hardy boys. Bodies win over shinies, every time. Every time.

 

Dont get so caught up on a killer Wolf Lord that you lose sight of the staples of the army- Grey Hunters, Long Fangs, and the support elements they need to do their jobs- transports, priests, and basic shooting or CC upgrades.

 

Remember to roll for random objectives, and cap every skyfire nexus you can get.

 

Bring a balanced list so you always have atleast five scoring units at anything over 1500pts in the scouring or big guns never tire.

 

Play your objectives, and let the costs be damned, because youll win anyways, even if its with the last blood claw screaming as he trudges, burning, with the relic to victory.

 

Steal his quad gun and use it to shoot that dragon in the butt. Laugh all the way to the 14nth black crusade.

Dont whine like a puppy, fight like a wolf. With tactics, courage, and a quick and final bite they just cant shake loose.

[G. A. K.]

I find it interesting that no one has mentioned the SW's ability to have 2+ armour saves for most of their units (sorry GM didn't read your post before I wrote this). LF having trouble? spent 33 pts and plop a 2+/5+ blank termie in front. the flamer doesn't have a special rule to kill from the direction of the flame like a indirect blast, you take wounds on the closest model per normal shooting.

I like to use a runic priest (with a SS sgt to accept challenges) in my rhino squad and termie sgts for my pods and FL squads. I've tanked 7 turkey wounds on a single sgt after the squad got blown out of their ride and negated most of the wounds, and that was with a SS not TDA.

Dice are dice they get hot and cold but, 2+ is KING, and don't forget it. get as many 2+ saves as possible, period.

 

G

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

Or use drop pods and bjorn, and be in the enemy lines before his dragon can show up.

 

Or use a divination wielding rune priest to give the important units a 4+ invulnerable save.

 

Or give them TDA wearing WGPLs to laugh at the flames.

 

Or suck it up, accept that a 180ish point model deserves to kill 3-4 models before it dies, and then down it with massed missile launcher fire from your long fangs and their Rune Priest spotter.

 

Or call in reinforcements and ally in IG, or C:SM, to get anti-air tanks.

 

Or use a Skyshield Platform.

 

Or hit him so hard with so much firepower turn one he doesnt get a turn two half the time. Whirlwinds laught at cultists hiding in cover, just sayin.

 

Play Loganwing.

 

Use terrain and massive amounts of bodies to flood the table so much he cant place his dragons where they want to go. Run a 90 fenrisian wolf in the troops section army, laden with thunderwolves who can shrug off the flames even if it does get a shot off at them, and hit his lines turn two with a cavalry charge that will give people braveheart flashbacks.

 

Ally in flyers from C:SM, C:BA *who make a darn fine 13nth company in tandem with a main SW force if I do say so myself*, C:IG. Rule the skies so hard they drop the bale flamers for something that can scratch the paint on your own dragon.

 

Dont put your men in tight little clusters that are ripe to be flamed.

 

Dont misconstrue an inability to take a particular unit type with an inability to kill said unit type. We dont have any monstrous creatures either, or artillery. I dont care. We dont neeeeed them.

 

Dont take so many shiny toys instead of hardy boys. Bodies win over shinies, every time. Every time.

 

Dont get so caught up on a killer Wolf Lord that you lose sight of the staples of the army- Grey Hunters, Long Fangs, and the support elements they need to do their jobs- transports, priests, and basic shooting or CC upgrades.

 

Remember to roll for random objectives, and cap every skyfire nexus you can get.

 

Bring a balanced list so you always have atleast five scoring units at anything over 1500pts in the scouring or big guns never tire.

 

Play your objectives, and let the costs be damned, because youll win anyways, even if its with the last blood claw screaming as he trudges, burning, with the relic to victory.

 

Steal his quad gun and use it to shoot that dragon in the butt. Laugh all the way to the 14nth black crusade.

 

Dont whine like a puppy, fight like a wolf. With tactics, courage, and a quick and final bite they just cant shake loose.

 

God I miss playing Wolves.

[Sohail187]

Will we be seeing more invisible rune priests on bikes? hehe

[Bloody Legionnaire]

 

 

The change in meta puts our dex on a back foot in that department but our dex is long from being outdated, a simple FAQ would fix it but as GW doesnt want to just adept or take the losses and make the chaos player feel good about his only good unit in the dex.

 

I played 3th ED dex in a 5th ED rules and still gave people a run for there money as did a lot of you here. We adept and wait for better easy days.

 

By outdated.. I think we're struggling with communication and semantics again. I mean when it comes to the direction that GW is going in with new codex and their features. I know people have been complaining about the CSM codex, but there are many that think GW is doing an excellent job with all of the new dexes and are all very balanced. There are quite a few features I think we're missing which is not up to date (thus outdated) compared to the other Dexes. I am not trying to say Space Wolves are not competitive anymore, if that's what you guys were thinking.. my bad!

 

For the heldrake problem, I thought keeping them in Rhinos (Razorback would be the same) they would be safe. He then vector striked me and there was no longer any rhino for protection. That particular squad got shot and assaulted to nothing, so he didn't really cook them, instead he want straight for my LFs after the vector strike and they were done. 

We are ahead of the curve, besides flyers. All the new codices are built around expensive, customizable HQs, cheap as chip support HQs that buff like mad, and lean and efficient troops choices that do alot of the heavy lifting so the FA and HS slots can deliver a knockout punch.

 

We had all that before it was cool.

I don't find we are as customizable as the new guys are, and if that is our strongest merit... it comes with a price, I find our options very expensive. 

 

Sorry but did the OP say he didn't have the rulebook and admit to starting with 6th ed...

 

Ok. Here's a few things going against you in this thread.

-Don't write off what people suggest because you don't like it.

-Don't start insulting those trying to help you. It'll only go against you in the long run.

-Don't pick a fight with Ramses. He's been using SW for ages and has a lot of good ideas for using them. That and you won't win. And the thread will likely get locked for going off topic.

 

Just a question too. How many times have you gone up against the chicken delivery system? You do seem to be very focused on it.

I was really insulting anyone.. just responding back to the insult I'm given. Should be blatantly obvious that people were getting defensive just with the notion that someone didn't think SWs were as "awesome" as they did. I think the Space Wolves are one of the most awesome armies in the game.. but because I challenged something based on my own opinion (and others I game with I might add).. they jump on the defensive wagon. Really not conducive to having a fruitful discussion.... what do you think? 

 

I haven't written off anyone, I said three times now that I agreed with the guy about the LFs mine just died before they could work... 

 

Because people keep bringing it up so it seems like I'm more focused.. also, because I really like flyers and people insinuate the fact of me liking flyers means I just want one to counter the chicken.

 

I used to run a WGTDA with Cyclone for the fangs, I really don't roll well with any of my Terminators and they are usually killed off by 1s on the first or second roll very consistently, which is why I completely stopped using it. Too many points that die really fast. I do things a certain way because they are some of the few things that have actually worked in this game. I know plenty of people think we have the best troop choices in the game (which we may, not fully convinced) but I've definitely shot and gone into close combat with other Marines or MEQ that never really went all that well for me. All of this comes down to dice on the board, on paper things always look different. The only unit I am crazy about that is unique to the Space Wolves are the Thunderwolf Cavalry and a Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf... and even those give me a really hard time every once in a while. 

[Jarl Deathwolf]

 

Should be blatantly obvious that people were getting defensive just with the notion that someone didn't think SWs were as "awesome" as they did. I think the Space Wolves are one of the most awesome armies in the game.. but because I challenged something based on my own opinion (and others I game with I might add).. they jump on the defensive wagon

 

 

 

You didn't say they weren't awesome. You said...

 

 

I have to say that Space Wolves really need their new codex. I think with the direction Games Workshop is going in (which IMO has been done very well and is very good) the Space Wolves players are very disadvantaged. I know some of it is attributed to the HQ chosen and what not.. but I was pretty much smacked by all of the preferred enemy rerolls and other special rerolls CSM has. 

 

 

 I love my Space Wolves, but I think now (because of the new dexes) we are way over priced and way underwhelmed. 

 

Going on to cite that the reason the Wolves are bad is because you rolled bad and couldn't kill an extremely broken/cheesey unit that falls into a category of monster we have little defense from in our codex alone.

 

 

My rolling hurt me more than anything

 

 

AND THEN.. there is the fire breathing Mechanical Chicken. It's bad enough that we have ZERO Anti Air Capabilities... Not being able to take any cover save at all and not being able to take any armor saves (for power Armored Marines) is terrible.

 

 

I really don't care who you are but you're an idiot if you think Anti-Air is going to have any sort of impact on this flyer.. unless they come out with some super duper uber awesome new weapon. At this point I am 100% that we desperately need our own flyer. I'm going to be pretty disappointed in GW if they do nothing about this for the SW. 

 

I've been there, brother. Fired over 20 str 8 BS 4 shots at a defiler, of all things, and didn't even cause a hull point. Then it killed half of those 20 heavy weapons. I lost that game by being tabled, having killed precisely two models, one a Soul Grinder, one a vanilla Chaos Marine. In 1500 point army. 

 

I'm not trying to villianize you, but I am trying to make sure you see our perspective. With that out of the way...

 

 

I still believe in the Wolves.

I still believe we can shoot down everything, chaos, renegade or xenos.

I still believe in the power of the 10 point Rocket Launcher.

I still believe in the Allfather to guide my die at just the right time to blow up the Helturkey.

[Grey Mage]

 

 

 

The change in meta puts our dex on a back foot in that department but our dex is long from being outdated, a simple FAQ would fix it but as GW doesnt want to just adept or take the losses and make the chaos player feel good about his only good unit in the dex.

 

I played 3th ED dex in a 5th ED rules and still gave people a run for there money as did a lot of you here. We adept and wait for better easy days.

 

By outdated.. I think we're struggling with communication and semantics again. I mean when it comes to the direction that GW is going in with new codex and their features. I know people have been complaining about the CSM codex, but there are many that think GW is doing an excellent job with all of the new dexes and are all very balanced. There are quite a few features I think we're missing which is not up to date (thus outdated) compared to the other Dexes. I am not trying to say Space Wolves are not competitive anymore, if that's what you guys were thinking.. my bad!

 

For the heldrake problem, I thought keeping them in Rhinos (Razorback would be the same) they would be safe. He then vector striked me and there was no longer any rhino for protection. That particular squad got shot and assaulted to nothing, so he didn't really cook them, instead he want straight for my LFs after the vector strike and they were done. 

We are ahead of the curve, besides flyers. All the new codices are built around expensive, customizable HQs, cheap as chip support HQs that buff like mad, and lean and efficient troops choices that do alot of the heavy lifting so the FA and HS slots can deliver a knockout punch.

 

We had all that before it was cool.

I don't find we are as customizable as the new guys are, and if that is our strongest merit... it comes with a price, I find our options very expensive. 

We certainly are just as customizable if not more so- we have just as many options for wargear as a BA or C:SM captain, and sagas to boot, and an extra mobility choice- wich all in my opinion is much better than a small list of expensive relics that may or may not be worth their points depending on the enemy army. Even if you do want that kind of thing, sagas neatly fill that role really.

 

Our other options can be expensive- particularly Wolf Guard special weapons- but if you compare them to similar units in PA armies were not that bad off, and sometimes at an advantage. A vanguard veteran or company veteran pays a similar price for their weapons, more for fists and PWs, the meat and potatos of special CC gear but less for storm shields in many cases. Call it a wash since it really depends on ones style. Do we have a cheap hammernator? Heck no, but our options have literally brought Dark Angels player to tears up until their new codex- and frankly some of them still wish it was more like our options than the ones they got.

 

 

 

Sorry but did the OP say he didn't have the rulebook and admit to starting with 6th ed...

 

Ok. Here's a few things going against you in this thread.

-Don't write off what people suggest because you don't like it.

-Don't start insulting those trying to help you. It'll only go against you in the long run.

-Don't

pick a fight with Ramses. He's been using SW for ages and has a lot of

good ideas for using them. That and you won't win. And the thread will

likely get locked for going off topic.

 

Just a question too. How many times have you gone up against the chicken delivery system? You do seem to be very focused on it.

I was really insulting anyone.. just responding back to the insult I'm given. Should be blatantly obvious that people were getting defensive just with the notion that someone didn't think SWs were as  "awesome" as they did. I think the Space Wolves are one of the most awesome armies in the game.. but because I challenged something based on my own opinion (and others I game with I might add).. they jump on the defensive wagon. Really not conducive to having a fruitful discussion.... what do you think? 

 

I haven't written off anyone, I said three times now that I agreed with the guy about the LFs mine just died before they could work... 

 

Because people keep bringing it up so it seems like I'm more focused.. also, because I really like flyers and people insinuate the fact of me liking flyers means I just want one to counter the chicken.

 

I used to run a WGTDA with Cyclone for the fangs, I really don't roll well with any of my Terminators and they are usually killed off by 1s on the first or second roll very consistently, which is why I completely stopped using it. Too many points that die really fast. I do things a certain way because they are some of the few things that have actually worked in this game. I know plenty of people think we have the best troop choices in the game (which we may, not fully convinced) but I've definitely shot and gone into close combat with other Marines or MEQ that never really went all that well for me. All of this comes down to dice on the board, on paper things always look different. The only unit I am crazy about that is unique to the Space Wolves are the Thunderwolf Cavalry and a Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf... and even those give me a really hard time every once in a while.

Certainly seemed based on the idea that we somehow couldnt counter enemy flyers....

 

If you just want to play with flyers.... another army may be for you, and theres still allies, and the fact remains we dont need a new codex just so some new toys can be brought into the fold.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

 

 

 

 

The change in meta puts our dex on a back foot in that department but our dex is long from being outdated, a simple FAQ would fix it but as GW doesnt want to just adept or take the losses and make the chaos player feel good about his only good unit in the dex.

 

I played 3th ED dex in a 5th ED rules and still gave people a run for there money as did a lot of you here. We adept and wait for better easy days.

 

By outdated.. I think we're struggling with communication and semantics again. I mean when it comes to the direction that GW is going in with new codex and their features. I know people have been complaining about the CSM codex, but there are many that think GW is doing an excellent job with all of the new dexes and are all very balanced. There are quite a few features I think we're missing which is not up to date (thus outdated) compared to the other Dexes. I am not trying to say Space Wolves are not competitive anymore, if that's what you guys were thinking.. my bad!

 

For the heldrake problem, I thought keeping them in Rhinos (Razorback would be the same) they would be safe. He then vector striked me and there was no longer any rhino for protection. That particular squad got shot and assaulted to nothing, so he didn't really cook them, instead he want straight for my LFs after the vector strike and they were done. 

We are ahead of the curve, besides flyers. All the new codices are built around expensive, customizable HQs, cheap as chip support HQs that buff like mad, and lean and efficient troops choices that do alot of the heavy lifting so the FA and HS slots can deliver a knockout punch.

 

We had all that before it was cool.

I don't find we are as customizable as the new guys are, and if that is our strongest merit... it comes with a price, I find our options very expensive. 

We certainly are just as customizable if not more so- we have just as many options for wargear as a BA or C:SM captain, and sagas to boot, and an extra mobility choice- wich all in my opinion is much better than a small list of expensive relics that may or may not be worth their points depending on the enemy army. Even if you do want that kind of thing, sagas neatly fill that role really.

 

Our other options can be expensive- particularly Wolf Guard special weapons- but if you compare them to similar units in PA armies were not that bad off, and sometimes at an advantage. A vanguard veteran or company veteran pays a similar price for their weapons, more for fists and PWs, the meat and potatos of special CC gear but less for storm shields in many cases. Call it a wash since it really depends on ones style. Do we have a cheap hammernator? Heck no, but our options have literally brought Dark Angels player to tears up until their new codex- and frankly some of them still wish it was more like our options than the ones they got.

 

 

> 

Sorry but did the OP say he didn't have the rulebook and admit to starting with 6th ed...

 

Ok. Here's a few things going against you in this thread.

-Don't write off what people suggest because you don't like it.

-Don't start insulting those trying to help you. It'll only go against you in the long run.

-Don't

pick a fight with Ramses. He's been using SW for ages and has a lot of

good ideas for using them. That and you won't win. And the thread will

likely get locked for going off topic.

 

Just a question too. How many times have you gone up against the chicken delivery system? You do seem to be very focused on it.

I was really insulting anyone.. just responding back to the insult I'm given. Should be blatantly obvious that people were getting defensive just with the notion that someone didn't think SWs were as  "awesome" as they did. I think the Space Wolves are one of the most awesome armies in the game.. but because I challenged something based on my own opinion (and others I game with I might add).. they jump on the defensive wagon. Really not conducive to having a fruitful discussion.... what do you think? 

 

I haven't written off anyone, I said three times now that I agreed with the guy about the LFs mine just died before they could work... 

 

Because people keep bringing it up so it seems like I'm more focused.. also, because I really like flyers and people insinuate the fact of me liking flyers means I just want one to counter the chicken.

 

I used to run a WGTDA with Cyclone for the fangs, I really don't roll well with any of my Terminators and they are usually killed off by 1s on the first or second roll very consistently, which is why I completely stopped using it. Too many points that die really fast. I do things a certain way because they are some of the few things that have actually worked in this game. I know plenty of people think we have the best troop choices in the game (which we may, not fully convinced) but I've definitely shot and gone into close combat with other Marines or MEQ that never really went all that well for me. All of this comes down to dice on the board, on paper things always look different. The only unit I am crazy about that is unique to the Space Wolves are the Thunderwolf Cavalry and a Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf... and even those give me a really hard time every once in a while.

Certainly seemed based on the idea that we somehow couldnt counter enemy flyers....

 

If you just want to play with flyers.... another army may be for you, and theres still allies, and the fact remains we dont need a new codex just so some new toys can be brought into the fold.

 

Which wont happen (or unless I need to start buying forge world) unless we get a new codex. 

 

Are we still more customizable than the new C:SM? I understand in a 5e enviroment, C:SW were probably pretty nasty. My personal experience with my SWs in 6th edition hasn't really seemed that way. It appeared to me that most of the other Armies I played against had a few special rules that and units that really made me feel at a disadvantage with the options in my codex. Could just be I'm a beginner, I didn't necessarily catch a lot of crap for it, but there were a few guys that would snicker and say "psshh.. space wolves player complaining about his codex?" Which they all knew I was a new guy.. anyway. Here recently after the new dexes have been released and after talking with some of the guys (to include SW players) the disadvantages of a 5e book in a 6e environment have been talked about. I personally felt like it was noticeable to me on the table as well. 

 

I did not mean to come off with the idea that Space Wolves suck, more that they have a hard time. They are my favorite chapter.. it's not like I'm coming from a different forum into the Space Wolves forum just to troll and talk about how much worse Space Wolves are than another Codex.