Ishagu Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 I've never owned a Landraider despite playing for many years, and I fancy sticking Calgar and some Termies in one and driving up the field for a bit of fun as I've been branching out in to 2k+ games in recent months. I can't decide which type to get... The standard codex Raider - Normally I don't field a lot of lascannons as I'm not really scared of other tanks (normally 3 or so LCs a list)... though it would be nice. Also, if it gets immob'd early on, at least lascannons can shoot long range and still be useful somewhat. If only it had 12 spaces... I like the Crusader for it's transport capacity, however hurricane bolters are rubbish when you play a lot of tough armies like Chaos, Space Wolves and Grey Knights. However I could put Termies, Calgar and a Libby in this and make a nice death star unit... The Reedemer looks great on paper, and the flamestorm cannons remind me of the feared Baleflamer... But how the hell does one use them often when placed on the side of a huge clunky tank? Also with their short range I don't see how I'll ever get my point's worth. Will this tank ever make it to the enemy line for a chance to roast some Tau behind cover? I doubt it... Anyways, can someone offer advice? Also, do Forgeworld make any stand out variants other than the Achillies that are 40k approved? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 The short answer is probably the Crusader, it's certainly the one I see fielded most often. Good for assaulting, the highest capacity, no confusion about its role. Hurricane bolters don't look amazing, but you pretty much always get to fire them and they have more range than the Redeemer. If you're delivering Terminators with Calgar you'll want one of the frag assault launcher variants for the extra capacity and grenades, and the Crusader is the easiest to use and has the most space. I use the standard Raider as more of a mobile bunker. It's obviously the most effective at range so if you have a more defensive army it's good for providing lascannons and keeping an objective-holding squad safe, or delivering a unit to counter-assault. Th Redeemer is a bit more situational, but lethal against the right targets. The Redeemer looks great on paper, and the flamestorm cannons remind me of the feared Baleflamer... But how the hell does one use them often when placed on the side of a huge clunky tank? By using Power of the Machine Spirit to target one at a different unit. Drive into the enemy lines and broadside them. It's a great tank for assaulting hordes, probably my favourite variant in Apocalypse where there's usually a ton of infantry on the table. I once had two Sternguard squads drop pod next to it and fluff their combi-melta shots. Might be the most points I ever killed with one shot. It's rare to get to fire both against elite and mechanized armies, but even one is devastating against power armour units, and with an assault cannon and a multi-melta, it's never useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 The problem with anti infantry Land Raiders is they clash with the accompanying assault unit. Not necessarily a problem but I find my army needs tank busting abilities at range before I need to kill the infantry. And I like the flexibility of the standard Land Raider for my army. When I'm assaulting something I don't need anti infantry but I would like the option to NOT have to charge across the table just to use my vehicle. Nothing quite like forcing Eldar to come towards you with a barrage of lascannons and an armoured vehicle that doesn't care about Scatter Lasers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 I find that the Phobos is best loaded with a simple scoring unit. Ferry it around in safety as you use your Land Raider to blast enemy targets and tank incoming firepower. The Redeemer & Crusader are straight assault transports, where the primary focus is getting your expensive and dangerous assault units into combat. Between the two, I think transport capacity is the biggest difference, if I don't need the extra room, I'd take the cheaper Redeemer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 As an Ultramarines player I enjoy the flexibility of Honour Guard who are a very modest price for hanging back if I want (160pts), which I forgot to mention earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 29, 2013 Author Share Posted September 29, 2013 Thanks guys. Some great advice. Think I might just get the standard Landraider and fill it with tacticals, marching some tougher guys behind it as it advances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 It depends on it's role in your force. For an assault unit the Crusader or Redeemer is generally best. The Crusader is more flexible in this role in that it can hang back better and shoot, the Redeemer wants to be right up in your opponent's face. However, if you need the anti-tank firepower, and aren't looking to shove an assault unit into your opponent's forces very quickly, then the Phobos is probably the better pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 Thanks guys. Some great advice. Think I might just get the standard Landraider and fill it with tacticals, marching some tougher guys behind it as it advances. Let us know how its working for you. I don't know who originally started the comparison but there was an interesting idea of comparing a Rhino & Las Predator with a basic Land Raider. Long story short, you pay 70ish points for AV14 and assault ramps. It's a pretty solid deal I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montuhotep Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 The FW Prometheus has it's uses; a pair of twin-link heavy bolters per side outguns a Crusader's Hurricane sponsons, however it doesn't come with Assault Launchers, but has a standard transport cap of 10, so it can haul a squad around and can take a multi-melta if desired. Reducing cover saves is useful, negating Night Fight ditto, but anyone with Eldar armour or worse is going to hate those Heavy Bolters.... The Helios is, to my mind, the FW 'raider with the best weapon fit around; finally we have synchronised ranges of all weapons. A pair of twin link lascannon and a Whirlwind Launcher. AV14 means it's the most survivable Whirlwind of the lot, good for both anti-armour and anti-infantry work. PotMS means it can snipe a vehicle and barrage infantry in the same turn with a large blast. None too shabby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garath Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 The problem with anti infantry Land Raiders is they clash with the accompanying assault unit. Not necessarily a problem but I find my army needs tank busting abilities at range before I need to kill the infantry. And I like the flexibility of the standard Land Raider for my army. When I'm assaulting something I don't need anti infantry but I would like the option to NOT have to charge across the table just to use my vehicle. Nothing quite like forcing Eldar to come towards you with a barrage of lascannons and an armoured vehicle that doesn't care about Scatter Lasers. The problem with anti infantry Land Raiders is they clash with the accompanying assault unit. Not necessarily a problem but I find my army needs tank busting abilities at range before I need to kill the infantry. And I like the flexibility of the standard Land Raider for my army. When I'm assaulting something I don't need anti infantry but I would like the option to NOT have to charge across the table just to use my vehicle. Nothing quite like forcing Eldar to come towards you with a barrage of lascannons and an armoured vehicle that doesn't care about Scatter Lasers. Furthermore, the list of short ranged AT weapons is quite long. That's why I take the Godhammer variant much more often. I do play DA, so crusader does have the advantage of standard of devastation. But that set aside,, the standard LR is overall more useful. You can use it as an assault vehicle, but you don't have to. This is a huge KP denial piece, potentially . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekLee688 Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I'd love to have a Forgeworld Spartan land raider. Has the option of anti melta armor, extra hull point, 25 seats, and double the twin linked lascannon shots. All for +50pts. over a standard raider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I had favoured the Crusader variant with assault unit (death company) until I read Captain Idahos battle reports and theories, combined with the honour guard tactica I finally started running a unit I had always wanted to - Sternguard in a Godhammer. While not teh most efficient set up, I found an ability to provide long range AT fire andthen capitilise on any point of the board - a 30" range of fire that only gets better as the gap c;loses and a mobile fortress as well led to some great moments. People will tell you that all LR are overcosted, and while I think they are slightly over costed they are so much fun that I will take one nearly every friendly over 1000 points. (IH tactics has made it even better with the IWND rule). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickeh Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 To answer the original question it doesn't seem like there's a consensus on the best LR, it depends on what is inside and what gaps you have in your army, as well as the opposing players army. I'm a crusader man myself but if you magnetise the sponsons and doors there's no reason you should have to choose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naminé Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I have one of each type of Landraider but in my eyes the best and my favourite to field is the Redeemer. 9 times out of 10 I will manage to get it into shooting range with something it can kill, and using to deliver some infantry is always helpful too. I prefer the way it can devastate units on its own, so the unit inside it does not matter. I take a land raider because I want a land raider, not because I want to transport a deathstar unit; however, once I have a LR in my army then that is always an option, otherwise a tactical squad or cc scouts can ride along inside it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I have one of each type of Landraider but in my eyes the best and my favourite to field is the Redeemer. 9 times out of 10 I will manage to get it into shooting range with something it can kill, and using to deliver some infantry is always helpful too. I prefer the way it can devastate units on its own, so the unit inside it does not matter. I take a land raider because I want a land raider, not because I want to transport a deathstar unit; however, once I have a LR in my army then that is always an option, otherwise a tactical squad or cc scouts can ride along inside it. I'm rather fond of my crusaders. Might have something to do with the fact that I've won games against DE by tank shocking them off an objective in big guns never tire (Blessed hull helps against lances) and its even caused multiple wounds to greater demons with sheer weight of fire. The few times I've run the Redeemer I didn't really enjoy it, because killing MEQ has never been my problem. I might fix my old redeemer (Glued one of the flamestorms on wrong) but I've yet to decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 What is best in Land Raider? To crush your enemies beneath their tracks, see them freemed from a distance and hear the lamentation of their anti-tank. When in doubt: Phobos :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinholt Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 My brief thoughts: 1 - There is the tendency on the internet to revert to simple, effective solutions; this results in spam lists and favoritism for hyper-specialized units. This is not to say this line of thinking is wrong; it's neither wrong nor right, it's just a thing. However, generalist units will often be systematically undervalued until someone uses them effective, and even then, it is often chalked up to luck rather than looking more deeply into what is going on. 2 - Needless to say, this means I think the bone stock LR is undervalued. However, it's not the same as the other land raiders. The value of the basic LR is the versatility. Need to assault? I can get a unit there. Need to roll up a flank while still influencing the rest of the board? It can do that. Need to hang back and take out enemy armor? It can do that. It's not optimized for any of these roles, but it will always have something useful to do. 3 - The other land raiders are specialists. Both the crusader and the redeemer exist for a single purpose, and that is to get up close and personal. Thus, the question becomes if your list wants to get up close and personal, and what you can deliver with it. They are very, very good at those things. But those things are not always something you want to do (is it worth plowing into an ork blob?). So the answer is this: the best one depends on what your list wants to do. Used appropriately, they are all good, but you want to have synergy with the rest of the list and multiple other armored targets to force the enemy to stretch their AT thin if you use one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Templar 307th Comp. Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Okay, full disclaimer...look at the cross to the left. That being said, I think the Land Raider Crusader is the best variant. For five points more (than Templars are used to paying anyway) you get a tank that can fulfill just about any role with all the trimmings, can carry anything and can serve as an assault vehicle. AV 14 always deserves respect. If you need a medium range anti-infantry gun platform? It does that very well. If you need to take out light armor? It can do that with the AC and Multi Melta. If you need to pop MC? See previous. And if you come across heavy armor? At 12" she's got melta rules. And what are you carrying? Shooty unit? Fine. Terminators? There's an app for that. A small assault squad? (I've been known to play Chinese Fire Drill with my LRC, I'd never START them in there.) Maybe you want to deliver your Warlord in a deathstar unit? Hey, the Crusader is like an iPhone. There's an app for that. I think it's the better option of the "pizza delivery" raiders, because flamestorm cannons are very limited. Of course now that the standard Raider can take MM, it gains that much more utility. But I'm a Templar...give me a Crusader! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 The one problem with a Crusader is the points cost being so expensive when it's stuck at long range. If you want to hang back, it's essentially useless. However it is in its element up close where it can make entire units disappear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Templar 307th Comp. Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Other side of the coin, I can't see paying that many points for a tank with that kind of capacity just to hang back and spam TLLC. It's a little like telling Babe Ruth to bunt, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly_bear Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 As an Ultramarines player I enjoy the flexibility of Honour Guard who are a very modest price for hanging back if I want (160pts), which I forgot to mention earlier. Back in 5th ed codex I used to always run HG above 1500 points in a crusader and for me the crusader just works. Plus with CT now the Hurricane bolters got better. As every one else has said it's down to you a a player and what you're putting into the LR itself. Give all three a go in separate games, I'd say at least 3 games for each one. So they have a fair chance to impress/disappoint you lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 As an Ultramarines player I enjoy the flexibility of Honour Guard who are a very modest price for hanging back if I want (160pts), which I forgot to mention earlier. Back in 5th ed codex I used to always run HG above 1500 points in a crusader and for me the crusader just works. Plus with CT now the Hurricane bolters got better. As every one else has said it's down to you a a player and what you're putting into the LR itself. Give all three a go in separate games, I'd say at least 3 games for each one. So they have a fair chance to impress/disappoint you lol Raiders don't benefit from CTs except for iron hands. Also they already twin-linked so bolter drill is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFisty Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I've never owned a Landraider despite playing for many years, and I fancy sticking Calgar and some Termies in one and driving up the field for a bit of fun as I've been branching out in to 2k+ games in recent months. I can't decide which type to get... The standard codex Raider - Normally I don't field a lot of lascannons as I'm not really scared of other tanks (normally 3 or so LCs a list)... though it would be nice. Also, if it gets immob'd early on, at least lascannons can shoot long range and still be useful somewhat. If only it had 12 spaces... I like the Crusader for it's transport capacity, however hurricane bolters are rubbish when you play a lot of tough armies like Chaos, Space Wolves and Grey Knights. However I could put Termies, Calgar and a Libby in this and make a nice death star unit... The Reedemer looks great on paper, and the flamestorm cannons remind me of the feared Baleflamer... But how the hell does one use them often when placed on the side of a huge clunky tank? Also with their short range I don't see how I'll ever get my point's worth. Will this tank ever make it to the enemy line for a chance to roast some Tau behind cover? I doubt it... Anyways, can someone offer advice? Also, do Forgeworld make any stand out variants other than the Achillies that are 40k approved? Thanks It is true that Hurricane Bolters are rubbish. I hardly ever play against swarms in my meta. Although I do sometimes use Crusaders, I usually take the Godhammer and I play with Land Raiders a lot. That said, I dream of Hurricane plasma guns.../tear. All Land Raiders are great. Just pick the one that best fits the role you need in your meta and enjoy dispensing the Emperor's fury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 Thanks guys. Some really useful examples and advice. I'm now considering shelving the termies and instead running 3 grav centurians and tigarius in the landraider instead... I think I'll pick up the normal variant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceytrixx Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Im running that tomorrow (well no tiggy as I play Salamanders Just a standard Librarian) so itll be good to see how it fares. Itll only be bettet with Tiggy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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