Captains are meh?

[MayorDaley]

Now assuming that you buy into my idea that Captains should be a balance between the value priced HQs and the uber beatstick that is the Master, here are two build attempts I wanted to put forth for review

 

#1 Storm Shield & Relic Blade

With only 3 attacks you aren't the most killy HQ out there but you have a strong enough weapon to threaten anything that isn't in Terminator Armor and a 3++ to shrug off attacks from Heldrakes, plasma or other power weapons.

 

#2 Power Fist & Lightning Claw

You gain an extra attack which is a significant bonus. More importantly, you have two weapons that are optimized for killing light or heavy targets. The downside is that you're no more durable than a stock Captain. To be fair, 3+/4++ is hardly a pushover, but it's nothing amazing either.

 

In both builds, you could utilize AA to make yourself more durable. Build #2 might need that more, since it doesn't get the 3++ but giving it to Build #1 turns you into quite the tank.

 

In both cases, these Captains are less than 150 points and still a threat to most anything on the board.

If you're looking for something tougher or more expensive, I would bite the bullet and upgrade to the Master.

 

#3 Power Axe and Power Maul

Saves you 10 pts if you are on a severe budget.  This set-up is interesting for challenges though.  Start with the Maul, and whack 'em down to the Axe's Int. 

 

Cheers

[minigun762]

 

 

Now assuming that you buy into my idea that Captains should be a balance between the value priced HQs and the uber beatstick that is the Master, here are two build attempts I wanted to put forth for review

 

#1 Storm Shield & Relic Blade

With only 3 attacks you aren't the most killy HQ out there but you have a strong enough weapon to threaten anything that isn't in Terminator Armor and a 3++ to shrug off attacks from Heldrakes, plasma or other power weapons.

 

#2 Power Fist & Lightning Claw

You gain an extra attack which is a significant bonus. More importantly, you have two weapons that are optimized for killing light or heavy targets. The downside is that you're no more durable than a stock Captain. To be fair, 3+/4++ is hardly a pushover, but it's nothing amazing either.

 

In both builds, you could utilize AA to make yourself more durable. Build #2 might need that more, since it doesn't get the 3++ but giving it to Build #1 turns you into quite the tank.

 

In both cases, these Captains are less than 150 points and still a threat to most anything on the board.

If you're looking for something tougher or more expensive, I would bite the bullet and upgrade to the Master.

#3 Power Axe and Power Maul

Saves you 10 pts if you are on a severe budget. This set-up is interesting for challenges though. Start with the Maul, and whack 'em down to the Axe's Int.

 

Cheers

I would be more interested in a Grav Pistol and power axe combo.

Main things you want to use concussive on are MCs hitting on 2's with no chance for an armor save seems useful.

[Azash]

 

 

 

Now assuming that you buy into my idea that Captains should be a balance between the value priced HQs and the uber beatstick that is the Master, here are two build attempts I wanted to put forth for review

#1 Storm Shield & Relic Blade

With only 3 attacks you aren't the most killy HQ out there but you have a strong enough weapon to threaten anything that isn't in Terminator Armor and a 3++ to shrug off attacks from Heldrakes, plasma or other power weapons.

#2 Power Fist & Lightning Claw

You gain an extra attack which is a significant bonus. More importantly, you have two weapons that are optimized for killing light or heavy targets. The downside is that you're no more durable than a stock Captain. To be fair, 3+/4++ is hardly a pushover, but it's nothing amazing either.

In both builds, you could utilize AA to make yourself more durable. Build #2 might need that more, since it doesn't get the 3++ but giving it to Build #1 turns you into quite the tank.

In both cases, these Captains are less than 150 points and still a threat to most anything on the board.

If you're looking for something tougher or more expensive, I would bite the bullet and upgrade to the Master.

#3 Power Axe and Power Maul

Saves you 10 pts if you are on a severe budget. This set-up is interesting for challenges though. Start with the Maul, and whack 'em down to the Axe's Int.

Cheers

I would be more interested in a Grav Pistol and power axe combo.

Main things you want to use concussive on are MCs hitting on 2's with no chance for an armor save seems useful.

If your going to go fight MC's you should take a plasma pistol not a grav. Gravs don't really work on greater deamons and when was the last time you ran into a melee build riptide or one that didn't shoot you to death before you hit charge range. You only have 5 attacks (on the charge) and your swinging at I1. Half your attacks will not hit and your only wounding on a 5+. In short your hoping to be a speed bump even if you get to swing so you really need to put on wounds with that pistol shot and wounding on a 3+ beats the hell out of wounding on a 6.

[minigun762]

Most MCs that I see have at least a 3+ armor save, so against T6 both wound on 3's.

 

If you do fight a lot of MCs that don't rely on an armor save, a PP would be better.

[Lysere]

I think the grav pistol is more important because of Concussive. If you cause the wound they go after you or at the same time depending on your own weapon. Yeah some MCs might be harder to wound with it but most of them you at least have a shot, like Swarm Lords and Blood Thirsters.

[Captain Idaho]

I can only think of three MCs which we'll see often enough to bother grav users, and they're all Greater Daemons.

 

Maybe a Daemon Prince, but don't they all get armour by most players?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I can only think of three MCs which we'll see often enough to bother grav users, and they're all Greater Daemons.

 

Maybe a Daemon Prince, but don't they all get armour by most players?

 

For the most part, yes.  So it becomes a toss-up: grav wounds on a 3+ with Concussive, but plasma wounds on a 2+.  Personally, I think the Concussive is worth it for the speed advantage.  And, you know, not having the gun blow up in your face.

[hallodx]

Actually Avatar has no armor, and the last time I see it, it's in a buildind, operating Icarus lazcannon, trolling his opponent with FAST shot.

It won't be a easy task taking it out without DP

 

EDIT: Sorry, it's Fast shot, not quick shot. It letting your model shoot twice a turn.

 

And sorry avatar gets 3+ armor. My bad.

[Disruptor_fe404]

Actually Avatar has no armor, and the last time I see it, it's in a buildind, operating Icarus lazcannon, trolling his opponent with quick shot.

 

Okay, this actually made me laugh. That's glorious!

[Captain Idaho]

I'm pretty sure he's got a 3+ save, hasn't he?

[hallodx]

 

I'm pretty sure he's got a 3+ save, hasn't he?

Oops, just checked with that player and yes 3+ armor. My bad.

[Azash]

Just checking your trying to line up a speed advantage for a model that at best will get 2.5 hits in melee (assuming a ws 6 there are alot of 6+ ws mcs) and out if those will get one wound. The opponent has more wounds, initiative in rd 1 or rd 2 if you make it that far, more attacks, base ap 2, and usually better odds to hit. Also a lot of them are psykers so add a few random biomancy buffs just for giggles. Also let's for arguments sake assume it isn't one of the multitudes of flying MCs.

 

Like I said originally cheap captains are meh all he will do against an mc is die so how effective is 15 pts for a pistol? You have zero shot in melee your best hope is shooting and plasma can wound more consistently. Concussive if its even successful just means an I1 mc beat you like a chump.

 

Don't want to sound like an ass but really...really? Minimal points to have a shot we are talking artificer armor, burning blade...so 70 pts. and 40 more points to give yourself more chances to roll successfully 4+ invulns and one more attack to inflict a blinding str 6 ap 2 wound. Blind > concussive.

 

Which 15 pt upgrade gives you a shot against a WS10 BS10 S6 T6 I9 A6 250 pt flying ball of death on a 40mm base.

 

Plasma means you consistently get one wound before you die in melee. Grav means its theoretically possible to put a second wound in melee before you die.

[Lysere]

Just checking your trying to line up a speed advantage for a model that at best will get 2.5 hits in melee (assuming a ws 6 there are alot of 6+ ws mcs) and out if those will get one wound. The opponent has more wounds, initiative in rd 1 or rd 2 if you make it that far, more attacks, base ap 2, and usually better odds to hit. Also a lot of them are psykers so add a few random biomancy buffs just for giggles. Also let's for arguments sake assume it isn't one of the multitudes of flying MCs.

 

Like I said originally cheap captains are meh all he will do against an mc is die so how effective is 15 pts for a pistol? You have zero shot in melee your best hope is shooting and plasma can wound more consistently. Concussive if its even successful just means an I1 mc beat you like a chump.

 

Don't want to sound like an ass but really...really? Minimal points to have a shot we are talking artificer armor, burning blade...so 70 pts. and 40 more points to give yourself more chances to roll successfully 4+ invulns and one more attack to inflict a blinding str 6 ap 2 wound. Blind > concussive.

 

Which 15 pt upgrade gives you a shot against a WS10 BS10 S6 T6 I9 A6 250 pt flying ball of death on a 40mm base.

 

Plasma means you consistently get one wound before you die in melee. Grav means its theoretically possible to put a second wound in melee before you die.

 

If you ever charge a captain into combat with an MC that has all of it's wounds except the one you just trimmed off with a pistol shot then you deserve to watch him get ripped into tiny pieces of confetti. Aside from a riptide pretty much any mc will slaughter your captain/cm unless you have the shield eternal.

 

However with grav you can strip a wound off an already wounded MC then finish it in the assault phase if your shooting phase doesn't kill it.

[minigun762]

I think the debate was more between which pistol was better and not whether it's appropriate to send a 100-150 point HQ against a 250+ point MC.

 

Captains exist to butcher infantry and kill support HQs or wounded Beatsticks.

 

If you're trying to go toe to toe with a Bloodthirster, you need something more.

[Zombie P]

I still vote grav, it is just better in the majority of situations. And there is the significant lack of "Gets Hot!" Concussive does mean a lot, but in the situations we are most likely to see a grav pistol, I dont think it is that big of a swinger.

 

ZP