depthcharge12 Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Sev touches on that as well at at least an option. There is a righteousness that the Night Lords, and especially Curze himself would have felt. You can see his arrogance, his conceit. "There was no other way". He did taint his Legion. 100% in my eyes. Hell even Savage Weapons touches on this beautifully. No weapon wielded without cost. Curze was the Emperor's plasma cannon... And the Emperor rolled a 1. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281223-night-lords-recruitment/page/6/#findComment-3483897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Hah, fair point, but my argument is that the cost was felt actually by Curze and the Night Lords. There was a point I feel when they truly felt their cause and methods where just. That it was their sense of righteousness which drove them to perform the deplorable acts which they did. It wasnt enough to punish the guilty, they had to be punished so completely, so thoroughly, and it had to be felt so damn badly by those left to witness, that if you even thought of acting up again, your friend would be happy to kill you just to keep the Night Lords at bay. The problem is, not even a Primarch can wield such power without cost, and that cost is an eventual corruption of ones morality, the desecration of the soul and the loss of justification, or even the desire to justify ones actions. Curze may have wanted to take on the sins of his people, but it was too much, and even the psyche of a Primarch has limits until eventually you are tainted, and righteousness becomes sadism. This plays upon my feelings toward Chaos, and the insidious nature of corruption, but in short, it doesnt matter if you worship. It doesnt matter if you want to do the right thing, if you steep yourself in sin, suffering, or 'evil', you will be corrupted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281223-night-lords-recruitment/page/6/#findComment-3483913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 That sums it up beautifully Scribe and I hate to include (yet another) batman reference when it comes to our legion but as the famous quote from the Dark Knight goes "you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain", nobody can immerse themselves so long in the darker side of humanity without becoming broken by it. In fairness I think recruitment from a prison would have added a certain level of viciousness and sadism to the legion but when you're reconquering the galaxy and have worlds and entire species to drive to extinction such aspects would be almost welcomed and in some cases even seen as virtues. Sevatar and Talos both have a few thoughts on it but come to the same conclusion: yes the recruits from Nostromo were the scum of humanity since in a world of violence depravity and corruption the only ones who prosper are those who inflict such things more on others than they suffer in return. Coupled with the early age that prospective neophytes would be selected and you end up with what amounts to a dirty(can't really call it clean) slate forged into a superhuman weapon in a Legion whose creed and culture frees it of all morality. Curze himself stamps that down in one of his flashbacks when a mortal actually questions him on whether his methods really promote peace and civilization or merely a terror induced state of misery and silence. A normal person would at least pause and consider whether it was truly worth peace at such a cost or least someone with an ounce of morality would. That raises the question of just how much Nostromo affected Curze since it's been hinted at that the Primarchs were blank slates and even though genetically they possessed a few traits their personalities were molded by the worlds they grew on. It's easy to see why Curze never took morality into account when acting since he never learned of it until it was much too late to change and by that time he had probably grown to love his methods for their own ends anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281223-night-lords-recruitment/page/6/#findComment-3484090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I disagree that Konrad "never took morality into account". After all, his campaign of murder and terrrorism was aimed at murderers and rapists (and their families:( ) not random people who crossed his path. As for ignoring the nobleman who questioned him, how does the quote go, "I don't care to be questioned by someone who dwells under the blanket of safety that I provide and then chooses to criticize the manner in which I provide it." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281223-night-lords-recruitment/page/6/#findComment-3484378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Wade has a point, his issue wasn't one of morality. If anything, his was too strict, but even then it's more of a question of justice. The quote makes sense in context, as well. Curze wasn't exactly a policeman, he took matters in his hand as a top predator and a ruler. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281223-night-lords-recruitment/page/6/#findComment-3484383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Oh I think initially he was very moral. A moral code is not universal, especially in 30K/40K. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281223-night-lords-recruitment/page/6/#findComment-3484446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Balthamal wasn't speaking of his lack of morality in general, just the way in which he punished those he deemed guilty. Basically just lynching people wasn't enough, he had to skin them, feed them their eyeballs, and make garlands from their entrails... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281223-night-lords-recruitment/page/6/#findComment-3484453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 True, but that is still not a moral question, its a matter of excess perhaps. :p I give you 2 quotes... "Terror is nothing else than justice, prompt, severe, inflexible." "To punish the oppressors of humanity is clemency; to forgive them is barbarity." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281223-night-lords-recruitment/page/6/#findComment-3484466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Yeah my fault there in not articulating my point very well. Heinrich is pretty much spot on as usual. At the very beginning he was moral, he wouldn't have even begun to attempt to stop all of the crime if he didn't have the necessary morality to know it was wrong in the first place. But you see he gradually has those morals stripped away or warped to the point where he lies to himself on a constant basis because the alternative is to look at himself in the 3rd person and realize he's now exactly what he set out to stop on Nostromo. I think that the excesses he went to tie directly into his morality, or lack thereof since if he did indeed possess any I can't see him going as far as broadcasting his mutilations across the planet regardless of who would view them Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281223-night-lords-recruitment/page/6/#findComment-3484480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I think Curze took that first of Scribe's quotes to heart, as both a motto and a solution to Nostromo. Then, in good, Primarchy fashion (as in a childish, premature genius whose common sense and knowledge of life are so shallow his intellect and abilities do little for him), he went mind-berserk when it didn't work because humans make the same mistakes and go to the same lengths to get what they want time and time again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281223-night-lords-recruitment/page/6/#findComment-3484484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
godking Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Sev touches on that as well at at least an option. There is a righteousness that the Night Lords, and especially Curze himself would have felt. You can see his arrogance, his conceit. "There was no other way". He did taint his Legion. 100% in my eyes. Hell even Savage Weapons touches on this beautifully. No weapon wielded without cost. True As i said before Curze failed Nostromo Nostromo not the other way around. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281223-night-lords-recruitment/page/6/#findComment-3484571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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