Ahriman vs Huron, pt for pt which is better for infiltrating

[hornywingythingy]

As stated, I have been thinking about going for either huron or ahriman as warlord for the d3 infiltrating. Conventional wisdom is huron is better since he is cheaper, I'm wondering if ahriman with his ml4 and three witchfires a turn is a better bet, okay so you have to take one tzeentch power, but that's still three rolls on biomancy, telepathy or pyromancy you get. I figure the 70 points extra might be worth it to not have a totally random level one psyker.... Opinions?

[AekoldHelbrass]

I'd better take Huron + 10 cultists. Huron is way better in CC than Ahriman, heavy flamer is very effective against most armies, and you're not facing "and then Wolf Priest came" problem.

 

I've tried taking Ahriman, and ended up just trying to protect him the whole game, with his force stick he's not a threat to any other HQ, so you're practically giving up Slay the Warlord.

[the jeske]

huron

[Excessus]

Huron for sure! I only field Ahriman in fluffy Thousand Sons lists...and not even always...

[hornywingythingy]

Fair enough, I figured a level 4 might be worth it, cos huron looks like a tax to me.

[RolandTHTG]

Another vote for Huron.
While the 3/4 powers can be fun, Ahriman can also only join a TS or Unmarked squad.
Huron, being unmarked himself, can join any squad in the codex. He also brings a good Close-combat edge, bringing a +2 S Lightning claw (same S as Ahriman's staff, but with AP3 and shred) that also has armorbane (He will tear dreadnoughts or any other AV12 vehicles to pieces, and strikes at I5, so you even avoid damage) and a Heavy flamer, either for pre-assault burnings or counter-assault overwatch, plus he brings along a poweraxe for AP2, if you need it.  Huron costs almost the same as an equivalently-equipped lord (Lclaw/pfist/VotLW/Sigil/combat-familiar comes to 150) and gets the bonus psychic power, guaranteed trait, and Heavy Flamer. You really can't beat him for a cheapish undivided lord.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Your opponents face when Ahriman wipes whole squads off in one turn with his powers?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

...with what powers?  Tzeentch's Firestorm and Smite?

[Tenebris]

Yes, sadly it is Huron. Ahriman needs a list built around him to actually be useful. Huron on the other side is quite a generalist character and it operates on point and click. Place him in a solid squad of cultists and see him make wonders. Yeah Ahriman is not even solid as a buffer, especially since you play mostly daemons you have heralds that do the buffing better. ML 4 might be nice but in the end comes out pretty average in performance. 

[Excessus]

ML4 becomes 3 as the Tzeentch powers are mostly useless...

[RolandTHTG]

ML4 becomes 3 as the Tzeentch powers are mostly useless...

Well, it allows you to get off 3 powers, even if one is a ML2 power. And that is about the only advantage...

[Ishagu]

Take Ahriman for the TS troops.

 

With all the AP2 flying around, some dudes with AP3 boltguns and a 4++ are useful despite the cost.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Indeed, a tau or eldar players face when they find out you still get your save, and that they do not get saves from your bolt guns, is brilliant.

[Shuggnuggath]

Thousand Sons speciality is trumped by hell drakes :P

[Excessus]

Thousand Sons speciality is trumped by hell drakes

Which doesn't give them cover either. :D

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Thousand Sons speciality is trumped by hell drakes

Which doesn't give them cover either.

Yes but I think we can agree that the Helldrake is not exactly fair to our opponents.. (Looks at riptides, space marine chapter rules, eldar bikers ect)

Just get the Helld drake out, the Thousand sons are troops however, and can take a decent amount of fire power.

[Ishagu]

It's crazy to think, but TS are in my opinion now one of the most useful AND overlooked units in the CSM codex.

 

Eldar and their rending weapons, The new grav gun bikers who speed around, Tau and their ignore cover,  and not to mention some of the high strength low AP barrage weapons that now ignore line of sight.

 

invulnerable saves on troops is very useful. Their biggest enemy is mass small arms fire, but with clever play you can keep them away from such units.

[the jeske]

Their biggest enemy is mass small arms fire, but with clever play you can keep them away from such units.

 

how do you hide from units that are faster then you , with longer range , who in some cases ignore LoS , when 1ksons work the best at 12" range. at over 18" a 1ksons unit is less destructive at range then other chaos meq units bought with same points.

 

ah and to get we have to take a tzeench sorc.

[oreaper84]

huron is ok at several things, decent at combat, decent at defence, and a psyker (abiet the most random one in 40k). Ahriman can be great at a couple of things. He can be tooled for cc (load biomancy and use the last warp charge for force wep and see if other HQ's wont be more than a little nervous) or can be a shooting machine (i prefer top hatching out of a rhino or with a blob for this). He can also be a potent buff/debuff threat. 4++ and 3 wounds he is just as survivable as Huron but can tailor the need with powers to fit the opponent whereas Huron is generaly wasted outside of an assault.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Take Ahriman and a 10 plus Thousand son unit, or if you have the points, a terminator unit, pump his powers into biomancy until endure is rolled, then discipline to taste. 

Infiltrate unit to best position using powers to buff, debuff, blow the hell out of your opponent.

[Architect]

Nothing says "Go to sleep terminators" like Ahriman with Flame Breath, Shriek and Smite in a unit of Plasma Gun havocs. Whether he is cost effective or not- no other HQ dominates the shooting phase like Ahriman does. If you don't need/want a shooty HQ, Huron is your Master of Deception.. If you fight a lot of terminator or Tau opponents, however, Ahriman can't be beat. 

 

The decision is simple. What does your list need most? A cheap HQ or a shooty HQ? More importantly- What do *you* think is cooler? Your idea of "cool" may be a ~150pt character, so there's your answer..

[Excessus]

Remember he have to be very very close to be able to kill stuff with his psychic powers...and he's if he whiff the rolls because anything with 2+ armour save will own him in melee...

[the jeske]

no other HQ dominates the shooting phase like Ahriman does.

biker lord with brand . DP with brand .

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

DP with brand has an awe full vulnerability to being instant killed, whilst Ahriman can hide in a squad.

[the jeske]

ahriman has to get close with his squad and he can't target stuff other then the stuff the squad targets and FMC is a lot more resilient then unit of footslogging infiltrators .

The brand is no cover and  torrent , no saves , no to hit , just wound and then inv and maybe FnP. ahriman has to pass a test , not get stoped by a rune stuff or deny ze witch , hit and wound .  And he and his unit of bodyguard even the smallest one[3 naked termis or 10 naked cultists] cost more then a DP.