The Marines Tuetonic

[Deathwolf1805]

Just a rough Idea for a DIY Chapter.

The Marines Teutonic

Little is known about the enigmatic Space Marine Chapter known as The Marines Teutonic. Specialising in Drop Pod assaults, boarding actions and other close quarter fire fights, the Chapter is first recorded during the Purging of Malbork in 758.M39. Cropping up sporadically throughout Imperial records the first major report on the Chapter originated after The Pacification of Krzyżacki, nearly 300 hundred years after they were first reported. Ultramarines that were present reported that the Teutonics linked up with their fleet in orbit and demanded a meeting with the commander of the Strike Force. Captain Aculeo met with the commander of the Teutonic forces, who introduced himself as Grand Master Sibrand - a rank understood to equate to Chapter Master. The reports indicated that the marines had almost no regard for the Codex Astartes, cared nought for the Ultramarines First Founding Status and generally seemed the very antithesis to everything the Ultramarine stood for. Despite this it is clear that the Chapter managed to impress the Ultramarines with their skill at planetary landings, tenacity and ferocity in the face of the enemy. Unusually for Space Marines, the Teutonics also appear to care for the Imperium's merely human inhabitants, having delayed evacuations and put themselves and their allies in danger on numerous occasions in order to rescue civilians.

The Chapter's ancestry is as mysterious as the rest of their history. Many claim that they bear hallmarks of Imperial Fist geneseed, but the presence of a working Betcher's Gland and Sus-an Membrane would seem to defy this. Other have suggested a Dark Angel linage due to their disregard for The Codex and similar iconography or even Black Templar, despite the presence of Librarians in their midst. It is not even clear where they are based, or if they even possess a Chapter Monastery or are instead fleet based. Whatever the truth, The Marines Teutonic continue to fight in their own brutal way, defending the Imperium and it's people to their last breath.

[Lucien Eilam]

Do you mean "Teutonic" or is that intentional?

[Messor]

So what ideas are you looking to develop for these marines?

[Quozzo]

The first paragraph sounds rather informal due to the colloquialisms used and I hate to break it to you but the DA are a codex chapter.

[Deathwolf1805]

Sorry yes Teutonic

 

Are the Dark Angels really Codex? Don't they organize themselves differently and completely ignore its tactics? "Codex Marines" is generally taken to mean Ultramarines, Imperial Fists, White Scars, Salamanders, Iron Hands and the relevant successors (Black Templars excluded.) Quite why Salamanders, Iron Hands and White Scars are considered Codex has always puzzled me but I feel that Dark Angels do qualify as Non Codex. The Blood Angels stick closer to it than them, and yet they're non codex.

 

In answer to the question as to what ideas I want to develop, I have a general idea - based on the Knights Teutonic and utilising an all Drop Pod force where possible - but I'm posting this to guage people reaction and as a source of ideas for the chapter. I know that the Black Templars allegedly draw on the Teutonics but I can't stand the Black Templars. All the knightly orders they claim to be based on have been mutilated to such a degree that it is not really relevant. "Lets name them the Templars, and then use the wrong colour scheme." "Lets use the Teutonic and Hospitlar iconography and then have them be complete fanatics." The Hospitlars and the Teutonics started out connected with hospitals, and then militarised to defend the Pilgrims. I want to make this chapter closer to the real orders - brutal yes, but still with the primary motivation of helping and saving people. The Black Templars lack this in my opinion.

 

Did I use too many colloquialisms? Sorry if I did, but I can't see it.

[Quozzo]

The Blood Angels are codex adherent, there is even a small excerpt in their codex somewhere stating that they had other concerns in their chapter regarding the Red Thirst and Black Rage and so instead of attempting to defy Guilliman(?) they agreed to be broken down into chapters and conform to the codex. Their only obvious deviation is the Death Company which was not exactly a voluntary decision. The same goes for the Dark Angels, they have a veteran company, battle companies and reserve companies comprised of devastators squads, assault squads, tactical squads. But true to the chapters that have their own codex they have some deviation, other wise how would GW get our money. That being the ravenwing, along with some nice goodies in the deathwing. Space Wolves on the other hand do not adhere to the codex. They don't replenish losses in each squad, they "dont have psykers" and don't use neophytes as scouts, their the elites, while the neophytes are given jump packs and told "fetch!". It's like they looked at the codex and then did exactly everything it said not to.

 

"Cropping up sporadically..."

"Teutonics linked up..."

"...cared nought for the Ultramarines..."

I've actually not heard of that before, is that supposed to be "...cared not for the Ultramarines..."?

 

I think I'm actually in love with that colour scheme, quartered black and white, oh yeah!

[Lucien Eilam]

"...cared nought for the Ultramarines..."

I've actually not heard of that before, is that supposed to be "...cared not for the Ultramarines..."?

"cared naught". Naught being another word for "nothing".

[Deathwolf1805]

I suppose it depends on what you view as "Codex." On of my regular opponents is a Ultramarine Fan Boy who considers the Raven Guard non codex for daring to employ stealth in anything put their scouts. I must admit, I don't really like the idea of the Codex and deliberately try and pick space marine armies that go against it, whether it be space wolves, jump packing assault blood angels, incredibly stealthy Osprey Knights or the above Marines Teutonic. Surely if you stik to close to one rule book, you become too predictable and easy to dismantle and defeat.

 

I must say, I rather like the way the space wolves choose their scouts - grizzled veterans who are good at it rather than trusting the delicate, difficult and essential task of intelligence gathering and behind enemy lines operations to a squad of rather green warriors who don't have much experience yet. Seems a but cruel to the neophytes. Just let them do what young soldiers do best - get over enthusiastic, point them in the direction of the enemy and, on my signal, unleash hell. Also, aren't Rune Priests the Space Wolf Psykers? They have psychic powers - are these supposed to represent something different? Have I missed an essential part of the background of one of my armies?

 

Sorry about Naught and Nought. I am, as you may have guessed, an atrocious speller.

 

Thanks for the comment on the colour scheme. I was worried they would look to much like the Templars, as the symbols are similar (the left and right pads are chapter designating in this army) but I decided to take the plunge and rely on the white to make the difference. While it is a form of quartering, alternating armour plate are the contrast colour. So in a "white" quarter, knee pads, feet, elbows and wrists are black - and visa versa. For the models probably a mix of Black Templar and Dark Angel plastic bits, for the robe/ tabard combo as well as mix of sword and cross iconography. 

[Quozzo]

I suppose "Codex Adherent" is subjective. Space Marines have been using the squads, compainies and tactics present in the codex long before the heresey. The BA and DA are undespusted codex chapters though. ~1000 marines, 10 companies, assault, dev, tac, termies, vet, scout squads etc. Does your mate think there is only 1 codex chapter, or perhaps two with Novamarines, if they are who I think they are.

 

Space Wolves dont have psykers, or at least they dont think they have. The powers of a rune priests comes from Fenris or something, which is just a fable they told themselves but believe it to be true. Not sure exactly as I havent read their codex for a while.

[Gripharius]

I like the name and I like the color scheme.  But...

 

Little is known about the enigmatic Space Marine Chapter known as The Marines Teutonic.

Have you read the Octaguide?  You should read the Octaguide.

 

generally seemed the very antithesis to everything the Ultramarine stood for

I'm generally a fan of hyperbole, but this is a bole a bit too hyper.  Anything that qualified as "seeming" to be the "very antithesis" of "everything the Ultramarines stood for" would get shot in the head by the Inquisition.

   

Despite this it is clear that the Chapter managed to impress the Ultramarines

This violates the very essence of Ultramarine-ness, which is the fact of being an Ultramarine. Being unimpressed by anything non-Ultramarine is pretty much the dictionary definition of being an Ultramarine.  An Ultramarine that is "impressed" by something non-Ultramarine cannot possibly be an Ultramarine.  An Ultramarine being impressed by something non-Ultramarine would be like putting matter and anti-matter in a can of Coke with a bunch of Pop Rocks and shaking it up.  An Ultramarine being impressed by something non-Ultramarine is more unlikely than the plot of a Transformers film.  Cats would lay down with dogs, lions would be vegetarians, the sky would rain frogs, tornadoes would be made out of sharks, trees would crap metal, Uwe Boll would be synonymous with Shakespeare, yummy donuts would be full of vitamins and calorie free, politicians would be able to speak without lying, and bikers something-something unicorns something-something motorcycles something-something fluffy bunnies. Its basic Ultramarines physics, and a law of the universe that cannot be violated without totally destroying all time and space in a reverse Big Bang. 

 

At least, IMHO.

 

The Chapter's ancestry is as mysterious as the rest of their history. * * * snip * * * It is not even clear where they are

based, or if they even possess a Chapter Monastery or are instead fleet based.

Have you read the Octaguide?  You should read the Octaguide.

[Deathwolf1805]

To be honest, I had not read, or heard of, the Octaguide. I am now in the process of reading it. My reasoning behind keeping the geneseed mysterious was to stop them being shoehorned into a specific stereotype. If I write down that they are Imperial Fist successors, I felt I would then be cornered into making them stubborn as hell, self sacrificing and generally carbon copies of the Imperial fists in all but name and colour scheme. 

 

I accept the impressing the Ultramarines things is rather unlikely. But I like the idea that they are extremely good at what they do, to the pint that even the Ultramarines were forced to say "You know what, maybe we are not the best at everything." The Ultramarines always came across as a bit showboaty and full of themselves to me, and I like the idea of taking them down a peg. I do acknowledge that being "the very antithesis of everything the Ultramarines stood for" was too strong. They are still loyal to the Imperium, honourable and revere the Emperor, though possibly not as a God just like the Salamanders and other chapters. But where as the Ultramarines are bound up in bureaucracy, stodgy tactics that were written millennium ago and on reminding everyone that they thing they are the best, The Teutonics are more humble than that, more willing to adapt to changing circumstances and less likely to flaunt around, saying how great they are. They are more like the Raptors or the Carcharodons - brutal and to the point - but not as extreme as that. Do they have a thirst for glory, yes. Do they take pride in their skill at arms, yes. Do they fell the need to sing it from the roof tops, while panicking should they scratch their bright blue and gold paint work, no.

[Gripharius]

 

My reasoning behind keeping the geneseed mysterious was to stop them being shoehorned into a specific stereotype.

If that is truly your goal, then the best thing to do is gloss over the geneseed and focus on describing the attributes of the Chapter.  You might consider Black Templar geneseed, however, and then make sure you describe the character of your Chapter well enough to shrug off any unwanted Black Templar associations.. 

 

 

I accept the impressing the Ultramarines things is rather unlikely. But I like the idea that they are extremely good at what they do, to the pint that even the Ultramarines were forced to say "You know what, maybe we are not the best at everything." The Ultramarines always came across as a bit showboaty and full of themselves to me, and I like the idea of taking them down a peg.

I'm not so much criticizing your idea or telling you that you can't do that as saying that, IMHO, this goes against a fundamental part of the 40k universe and it is not something that is really necessary to do in order to make your Chapter.

 

The Ultramarines are full of themselves.  Believing the Ultramarines are the best at everything is fundamental to what it means to be an Ultramarine.  They are the ideal, and everything else is just an imitation -- at least, in their own minds.  Bringing them down a peg and making them admit they are not the best... that is making a change to who the Ultramarines are rather than describing your Chapter.

 

I would suggest that, instead of just making a flat statement that changes something significant about the Ultramarines in order to make your Chapter look more badass, you focus on convining the reader that your Chapter is badass.  Don't make the Ultramarines think that maybe they aren't the best at everything -- instead, make the the reader believe that the Marines Teutonic are better at the Ultramarines at what the Marines Teutonic do. 

 

In other words, don't just state that "the Marines Teutonic are so awesome that even the Ultramarines are on their jocks."  Rather, build and describe a Chapter in and of itself that makes the reader say, "those guys are awesome!"

 

 

[Wade Garrett]

The Ultramarines will accept the Codex Astartes isn't the best way to do everything the same day the World Eaters embrace diplomacy and the Emperor's Children enroll in Addictions Anonymous.

[Leonaides]

Don't forget that generally the codex usually does have the best ways to accomplish something. It also has extensive sections on stealth tactics, uniform variation suggestions and even recommends changing things up to confuse the enemy! Stealth not in the codex is codswallop!

 

Ultras are no more or less prideful than any other chapter, and I've not seen anywhere that shows any ultramarine acting in the way you suggest, being stuck up and superior any more than any other marine might be. Try reading Seth of the flesh tearers being an arrogant obnoxious oik to the blood angels for an equivalent behaviour...

[Deathwolf1805]

Warning - Massive Post


It is becoming increasingly clear to me I should have put some more background in. I'm removing a lot of the unknowns about them because it just seems unnecessary and doing so allows me to expand the chapter background more. So here goes...

The Marines Teutonic



Origins
The Marines Teutonic were formed during the Third Founding, drawing from Imperial Fist Geneseed. As a early founding, from a chapter who had so far founded only three others, they had a close bond to their Founding Chapter. Much of the Imperial Fist mentality and culture rubbed off on them, including a stubbornness, unwillingness to surrender and tenacity in the face of certain death. Unlike the Imperial Fists they were given stewardship of an entire solar system, far away from Terra, to make their own. This independence prevented them from turning into carbon copies of the Imperial Fists. Notably some of the more pain reliant aspects of the Imperial Fists, such as the use of the pain glove, were eliminated and a softer note with regard to the Imperium's human inhabitants was introduced. Soon after their creation the chapter was devastated by a Waaagh led by the Ork Warboss known as The Beast. The new chapter was swiftly tempered in the fires of war, suffering extensive casualties as they were cut off from their allies, their system become the eye of the storm within the green skin torrent. The war left a deep imprint on the Chapter, manifesting in extreme xenophobia towards inhuman races, though oddly this did not extend to ab-human races.

The Marines Teutonic were heavily involved during the Age of Apostasy including the storming of Terra alongside their founding and brother chapters. To this day they have a general distrust of the Ecclesiarchy and despise the Adepta Sororitas for, as they see it, breaching the spirit of the Decree Passive, if not the word. The chapter pays lip service to the Ecclesiarchy and avoid associating with them where possible.

Later History
In more recent times The Marines Teutonic have been involved in a number of notable campaigns, including the Third War for Armageddon and the destruction of the Necron World Engine. After the destruction of the World Engine, the chapter absorbed some of the few surviving Astral Knights, many of whom found that joining the Sable Swords, who had taken over the monastery and duties of the Astral Knights, was simply too painful. The most obvious of these is Silvio Amrehta, formerly a sergeant in the Astral Knights who has risen to the rank of Captain of the First Company in The Marines Teutonic. The current Grand Master of the Chapter is Heinrich von Stauffenberg, a considerably younger commander than most Chapter Masters at only 300 years old.

Home World
The Marines Teutonic are not based on a world itself but rather on an asteroid, Acre. The entire asteroid has been hollowed out and taken over by the chapter monastery, effectively forming a large space station located inside an asteroid belt. The Acre System is comprised of mainly Feudal or Knight Worlds from which the Teutonics recruit. On these planets, Teutonic rule is absolute. The Teutonic cult is followed by the inhabitants of these worlds, who view the marines as somewhere between gods, angels, rulers and protectors. Wars among the humans are not uncommon and the Teutonics do nothing to dissuade them, believing that the conflicts are good for developing suitable recruits. The sun that the system orbits is large, cooler than most and give out a lot of radiation. This means that while the inhabited planets are habitable to humans they are cold, with long winters and mainly evergreen vegetation. Those that would have been more comfortable to live on are warmer, but so heavily radiated that they cannot sustain life.

Beliefs
Much like the Salamanders, The Marines Teutonic believe strongly in their duty to protect the lives of the Emperors subjects, a view that has led to clashes of personality between them and certain other chapters who view humans as expendable. The Teutonic Cult puts a lot of emphasis on personal honour and glory, urging its followers to reach for the stars and achieve more than they believe is possible. They also regard the Emperor as a great man, brilliant general and spiritual liege of the chapter, but not as a divine being. Most significantly is the teaching that it is better to die in battle than give one inch of ground to an enemy. Duels are common, both to satisfy honour and demonstrate skill, as is a variation on the scrimshawing practises of the Imperial Fists, except using all the bones of the body rather than only those of the hand.

The most unusual of their beliefs is however that Dorn is still alive. Whereas many within the Imperium believe that Dorn died on The Sword of Sacrilege, the Teutonics maintain that he survived and will return to lead them one day. The chapter possess a single relic of their beloved Primarch, his Storm Shield. Given to the chapter by Dorn himself upon their founding, is now kept at the heart of their Reclusiam. The Chapter insist that they are merely the stewards of this artefact and Dorn himself will come to reclaim it when the time is right.

Combat Doctrine
The Marines Teutonic specialise in Drop Pod Assaults, Boarding Actions, Urban Warfare and other close range fire fights. It is said that nothing can survive a Teutonic Planetary Landing. Because of this tendency to engage the enemy up close, Flamer and Melta weapons are commonly chosen. Unusually, Plasma weapons appear far less frequently in the Teutonic arsenal than in those of other chapters. Quite why this is so is unknown, even to the Teutonics themselves, but it may well have something to do with the temperamental nature of the weapons. In accordance with their beliefs, the Teutonics also seek to minimise civilian casualties where possible, frequently risking their own lives and delaying evacuation in order to rescue Imperial Citizens. In the persecution of those that would harm the Imperium however they are unwavering. No tunnel is too deep, not fortress too strong, no army too mighty. The Marines Teutonic reduce the mightiest fortresses to rubble, cleanse the most secure bunkers of even insect life and break armies like water upon rocks.

Organisation
The Teutonics do not abide by the Codex Astartes, finding the organisation restrictions to be pedantic and serve no point other than making a space marine chapter a less effective force than it could be. While they would not, and could not, attempts to reach the size of the Legions of old they are not adverse to bending the organization guidelines and throwing the size restrictions out the window. All of their Companies are battle companies, with no reserve companies, while Veterans and Scouts are attached at the company level, with the first and tenth companies being identical to the rest. With two additional squads, one veteran and one scout, present in each company, the Chapter would reach over 1200 marines at full strength, a number that is rarely reached. The Scouts are drawn from experienced marines who have shown themselves to be adept at stealth and infiltration. Chapter neophytes form two ten man Devastator squads within each company, allowing them to get a taste of battle from as far away as the Teutonic combat doctrine allows - that is to say still very close. The chapter claim that mixing

The Chapter relies on Infantry tactics with aerial support rather than ground based vehicles due to their specialism at drop pod assaults. They do however possess more Land Speeders than most chapters, using them in many roles usually performed by the predator tank. The rank of Captain is reclassified as Master, while the Chapter Master is known as the Grand Master.

Gene Seed
The Teutonics are a successor chapter of the Imperial Fists, The traits of unyielding stubbornness and self-sacrifice were passed on to them. Practically the only imperial organisations that they maintain strong links with are the Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists and Celestial Lions, even offering geneseed samples to help the Crimson Fists and Celestial Lions rebuild their shattered chapters. The Chapter Geneseed is relatively pure, though a slight mutation means that all brothers of the Chapter develop blond hair and blues eyes.

Battle Cry
Death Before Dishonour

[TDF]

Most of what you've written seems good. I like the overall feel of the Chapter as knights that protect humanity whilst being ruthless to its enemies. That's good. However, I have a few issues with it, some of which are quite severe and go against Liber norms.

In more recent times The Marines Teutonic have been involved in a number of notable campaigns, including the Second and Third Wars for Armageddon, the destruction of the Necron World Engine, The Badab War and repelling the 12th Black Crusade. After the destruction of the World Engine, the chapter absorbed some of the few surviving Astral Knights, many of whom found that joining the Sable Swords, who had taken over the monastery and duties of the Astral Knights, was simply too painful. The most obvious of these is Silvio Amrehta, formerly a sergeant in the Astral Knights who has risen to the rank of Captain of the First Company in The Marines Teutonic.

If you're involved in all these campaigns then why aren't you mentioned in other sources for them? You should certainly be in Imperial Armour 9 or 10. And the bit about your marine killing the Beast could easily be contradicted when/if GW get round to elaborating on it. If you want that particular era of history to have a big impact on your Chapter then you could always have them alone and cut off defending a sector/subsector from the green tide (which covered the entire galaxy so there's plenty of room for stuff like that).

they have cleared more Space Hulks than most Chapters twice their age.

If you're 3rd founding then there are no Chapters twice your age.

The Teutonics do not abide by the Codex Astartes. All of their Companies are battle companies, with no reserve companies, while Veterans and Scouts are attached at the company level, with the first and tenth companies being identical to the rest. With two additional squads, one veteran and one scout, present in each company, the Chapter would reach over 1200 marines at full strength, a number that is rarely reached. The Scouts are drawn from experienced marines who have shown themselves to be adept at stealth and infiltration. Chapter neophytes form two ten man Devastator squads within each company, allowing them to get a taste of battle from as far away as the Teutonic combat doctrine allows - that is to say still very close.

The default position for SM Chapters (ie what about 90% of them do) is to follow the organisation of the Codex Astartes. Why don't yours? What about the other parts of the Codex, like all the tactical bits? What do the Marines Teutonic think of those bits?

The Teutonics are a successor chapter of the Imperial Fists, but possess the Betcher's Gland and Sus-an Membrane Organs. These are almost certainly the result of tampering with their geneseed, of the sort that was rampant during the 21st Founding. The traits of unyielding stubbornness and self-sacrifice were passed on to them.

I'm confused. If you're third founding then why are you going on about the cursed founding? And if it were that easy to replace the missing organs then why haven't the Imperial Fists or other successors managed it.

Nevertheless, I think you've got a strong core idea. I just think you need to find better ways to explain to the reader how cool the Marines Teutonic are than comparing them with existing Chapters. Make them cool in their own right!

[Deathwolf1805]

Ah. This is embarrassing. The age contradictions and stuff about the organs is a hangover from when I intended them to be cursed founding, and forgot to delete. I'll fix that as well as delete the bit about slaying the beast.

 

Fair point about the campaigns. I have always treated those as partial lists. If you say they are definitive, and I accept the GW and FW do, then you have closed the book on a lot of creative avenues. No chapter not listed can ever take part in battle representing those conflicts. I want the Teutonics to have a long an proud history, and that seems difficult to do if they were conspicuously absent form many major campaigns that involved a lot of chapters, some of whom we have no more than a name. If anyone has a way to explain this while remaining true to the background presented (so not that they for instance murdered anyone who observed them like a certain alleged protector of humanity) I'd be open to ideas.

[TDF]

The Imperium is a big place. Huge campaigns and crusades are happening all the time. We only know about a tiny fraction of them. And there's 10,000 years to play with.

[Gripharius]

 

I want the Teutonics to have a long an proud history, and that seems difficult to do if they were conspicuously absent form many major campaigns that involved a lot of chapters, some of whom we have no more than a name. If anyone has a way to explain this while remaining true to the background presented (so not that they for instance murdered anyone who observed them like a certain alleged protector of humanity) I'd be open to ideas.

 

It's a fine line.  I think you can have a "long and proud" history without naming specific, established campaigns. 

 

To some people, inserting your homegrown Chapter into an already legendary Astartes campaign feels like a trope, like you are saying my Chapter is so super-awesome and special-snowflake that it kicked ass in every other major Astartes conflict since the 3rd Founding.

 

Another thing you can do is focus on what is special about your Chapter, and what would make them feel like they have a long and proud history.  You note that your Marines put a higher priority on saving human lives than other Chapters.  Well, perhaps you could suggest that while there are hundreds of stories of valiant clashes between Space Marines and the Orks at the Battle of Whatever, few sources other than the Marines Teutonic battle histories recall the diligent efforts of the Teutonics to evacuate the city of Somewhere, fending off marauding Orks and saving countless lives.

 

So, while your Marines didn't personally kick Horus in the codpiece, they played a part in a known campaign that might have seemed minor to Imperial historians, but was neverthelss very meaningful to the Marines Teutonic... and probly the people they saved.

 

I wouldn't "footnote" my Chapter into too many of the known battles like that, however.  Perhaps a long and storied campaign the Teutonics waged to clear an embedded threat from a star system neighboring their own could be an example -- decades spent diligently slaying an Ork infestation and preventing it from erupting into a full-scale Waawaaawaaa.  While a major deal for your Chapter, the Imperium at large wouldn't really take too much note of a single star system.

 

So instead of single-handedly destroying Hive Fleet Behemoth, maybe your Chapter saves a world of humans from being utterly consumed by a genestealer infestation. 

 

Just some thoughts.

[Deathwolf1805]

On an alternate argument there is nothing wrong with them getting involved with the World Engine incident or 3rd War for Armageddon. There is no definitive list of the chapters that attacked the World Engine and the War for Armageddon is still going on, so unless the Imperium doesn't believe in reinforcements it is reasonable that they may have been deployed to Armageddon more recently, possibly to replace their brother chapter the Celestial Lions. 

 

I'm not trying to say that they personally won any of these engagements, or even that they were a major force. But I do like the idea of them cropping up occasionally in more famous campaigns. I particularly wanted them to be engaged against the World Engine because it is right up their street. The World Engine had the potential to kill entire worlds, something that the Teutonics would have hated more than most. Similarly on Armageddon I see them serving in a similar way to the Salamanders, saving and defending civilians. I am however more than happy to drop the rest.

 

I do however love the idea that they often skimmed over because Imperial Historians don't consider their efforts to evacuate civilians as important. I don't however want to ignore the rest of their background - they are terrifying to be attacked by and are experts at close quarter fire fights.

 

So ... tone it down, invent some unique campaigns and emphasise the protector element more.

[Deathwolf1805]

Just want to run a couple of ideas here.

I want to use Pedro Kantor as my Warlord, mainly for the ability to have Sternguard as objective holders. But I hate his wargear. His powerfist just doesn't fit with the feel I want my force to have. Would you consider modelling a two handed broadsword and using as a count as power fist acceptable, or not?

In addition as part of the fluff, and a a possible ally force, how about a close relationship with the imperial guard/ PDF regiments. This fits with their image as protectors of the common man. I like the idea of the guardsmen really looking up to them, maybe even daubing the black cross onto their uniform while serving alongside them. This also fits with the real Teutonic background (which does permeate this chapter in more than name) as they used a lot of auxiliary forces and mercenaries, so the chapter working closly with the human elements of the imperial military would fit.

Also I have created a different design, minus cloak, robe and tabard which I will use on the Sternguard.

[Quozzo]

The Eviscerator is pretty much the same as the power fist, except it has armourbane so you wont be able to use it in tornies but I don't think anyone will have a problem, I know I wont.

 

A lot of chapters work with the PDF and IG so there is no problem there, but I can't imagine a chapter ever allowing a non Astartes to display the chapter's insignia. It's more than just an emblem and why would they as the IG have their own (I presume). I remember reading somewhere that two chapters were involved in a war on a planet for so long that the two chapters started working together so often that they would literally borrow marines from the other. Both chapters had their strengths and both utilized it to great effect by mixing the space marines from each chapter into squads. To represent their close affiliation with one another they would paint one of their arms (or half their armour, cant remember) of the other chapters colours to represent that they were both fighting as one. That is the only occurrence I can recall where a chapter gave consent for another to don their colours, and I cant even remember if their chapter badge was shared too. My point is that the chapter badge is a sacred thing, the Deathwatch recognize that and even inquisitorial forces don't wear the GK insignia, they wear the =][= or some other icon from one of the assassin temples or forgo it altogether.

 

The Marines Teutonic were formed during the Third Founding, drawing from Imperial Fist Geneseed. As a early founding, from a chapter who had so far founded only three others, they had a close bond to their Founding Chapter.

That's a tongue twister, try saying that when you're drunk :p

 

Much of the Imperial Fist mentality and culture rubbed off on them

again with the slang.

 

This independence prevented them from turning into carbon copies of the Imperial Fists.

Another colloquialism, but moving far away doesn't prevent a chapter adopting their parents traditions. Their traditions come from the retinue that was sent from the parent chapter to train the newly founded chapter. If you're giving a reason why they are different than the IF it needs to be a bloody good reason (usually literally) as they would only change their ways if absolutely necessary. The reason why their traditions change is usually left for the reader to ponder, only how they have changed and to what purpose is the reader usually privy. Telling the reader what they do differently than their parent and stating which is their parent are all that is needed. With over 9,000 years of history it might have changed slightly over time, with less and less emphasis on the pain glove until eventually it was no longer part of the chapters rituals. But usually a big reason is needed for something to change so drastically in such a short amount of time.

 

Soon after their creation the chapter was devastated by a Waaagh

Ah, there's your reason.

 

the chapter absorbed some of the few surviving Astral Knights

Chapters don't willingly disbanded their beliefs to be told what to believe by another. I was under the impression that Space Marines belonging to a chapter that has no future would join the deathwatch, but provided you don't force your edict onto them they may prefer that route, providing they have more flexibility than the DW. But what about the geneseed?

 

The sun that the system orbits is large

I hate to be pedantic but there is only one Sun, also the star is within the system so the system cannot be orbiting the star, technically the system is orbiting the super massive black hole within the centre of the Milky Way.

 

they are not adverse to bending the organization guidelines and throwing the size restrictions out the window

Other colloquialisms.

 

 

I would include the updated IA into the OP as I somehow missed it, and people don't like reading an out of date IA only to find a new one further down the topic.

[TDF]

The story you're thinking of is the Declates Crusade. The Crimson Fists and Black Templars are both 2nd founding successors of the Imperial Fists, so they were already pretty close.

 

However, I'm not so sure that a Chapter with the disposition of the Marines Teutonic would mind too much if Guardsmen adopted their heraldry as mark of respect. As long as it didn't replace the regiment's own heraldry.

[Kastor Krieg]

The story you're thinking of is the Declates Crusade. The Crimson Fists and Black Templars are both 2nd founding successors of the Imperial Fists, so they were already pretty close.

 

However, I'm not so sure that a Chapter with the disposition of the Marines Teutonic would mind too much if Guardsmen adopted their heraldry as mark of respect. As long as it didn't replace the regiment's own heraldry.

Or it could be done like Templars do, awarded to the unit FROM the Chapter, for heroism and sacrifice on the battlefield. In Helsreach, for example, several wings of Guard fighters are mentioned to proudly wear the Crusade Cross.

[Deathwolf1805]

When referring to the lesser impact of their Imperial Fist heritage I was just referring to their greater compassion and less critical nature, and were not almost identical like the Ultramarines and the Novamarines. 

 

I accept I was wrong about the Sun. It should be star. When I said the system orbited it, I meant the planets and other bodies in that system, not the system as a whole. should have made that clearer.

 

The insignia was a badges of pride/ honour was what I was going for. Not replacing the regimental heraldry, but just daubing a black cross on a blank armour plate.

 

On the imperial guard note, can you raise Imperial regiments from near space marine chapters? I know that Ultramar have Guard regiments, or at least really well armed PDF forces, but is this a one off?