Night Raptors

[depthcharge12]

Maybe thats the song of the new NL apothecary character.

 

The NLs do have a limit for lunacy it seems

[Kol Saresk]

The NLs do have a limit for lunacy it seems

That's news to me.

[depthcharge12]

The NLs do have a limit for lunacy it seems

That's news to me.

I thought it was weird too, but then I remembered that Talos and co. didn't like what their captain and squadmate were turning into

[Kol Saresk]

Bah. That was only two Night Lords out of thirty or forty.

[depthcharge12]

I think this guy is the primus medicae or something and is a complete lunatic, he has some sort of rule iirc called unfit for command: here it is

 

 

 the
devils luck

may re-roll failed look out sir and feel no pain rolls



unfit for command

may not be take as a compulsory HQ selection , even the night lords have their
limits of toleration for madness


I think he also has a penchant for using meatshields
 

[DuskRaider]

He also carries an oversized scalpel that he kills people with.

[Kol Saresk]

That just means he was the archetypical Night Lord; neither trusted to be in front or behind.

[Warpedpath]

What I´m wondering about is... they are wearing MK IV Armour... but... isn´t that a MK II Jumppack on the second pic?

[Kol Saresk]

Have to admit though, it's much more noticeable.

[Greyall]

It's hard to say this, since there's clearly a lot of work involved in any of the models, but the Night Raptors are sort of a missed opportunity in terms of creating a Raptor-pattern jetpack.

 

Although GW did change the models...pity.

[Kol Saresk]

Yeah I didn't think about that. GW is the parent company of FW. Maybe when it comes to certain things like the Grave Wardens or Night Raptors, GW hands out certain guidelines about them? Like, for example, maybe the Night Raptors have to look like some form of proto-Chaos Raptors even though nowhere near all of the Chaos Raptors will be Night Raptors?

[Greyall]

Aye, but certain units, even if Legion-specific, do set the tone for future Chaos units. Look at the Grave Wardens, like you pointed. Those vents are pretty much Typhus' model's vents.

 

Edit: Though I'm glad World Eaters don't sport any kind of proto-ears like some of the Visions art depicted.

[Kol Saresk]

Yeah me too.

 

And I sort of do and don't agree with the "setting the vision". I mean, I do since in the case of Typhon, he's been around since then. In a way, his First Company having aesthetics as something we find reminiscent of his 40K incarnation, could also be seen as sign of Nurgle's influence all the way back then, similar to how the Word Bearers' had a penchant for astrology.

 

But the 40K Raptors are a really really really weird case. Not saying it makes them special or anything, just that they're weird.

 

When we first see them, they're egomaniacal hunters, who share a love for the same activities as the Night Lords. Their background was that once upon a time, the Raptor Cults were the Assault Marines of the various Legions. And back during the Crusade-Era, it was the honored veteran who got to wear the jump pack.

 

Then Lord of the Night is published. Simon Spurrier acknowledges the veteran status by saying Zso Sahaal in the Night Lords formed his command company while he was First Captain(funnily enough, they were never called the First Company, just his "command company"), named them Raptors and that he was one of the pioneers of Assault Troops in the Legions, in essence saying that he was the father of the Raptors and that the Cults took his Company's name as part of the egomania.

 

But that's the funny part. We don't know where the cults originated from. Due to Simon Spurrier seeking to create a more permanent link of that perceived in 3.5, we assume that the Cults originated in the Night Lords, the birthplace of the original Raptors. But we don't know. For all we know, the Catulan Reavers were the first to create the Raptor Cults. Or any one of the various assault companies that existed in most of the Legions.

 

Basically, while we may know where the first Raptors can be found, we don't know where the Cults can be. The two are synonymous, but they aren't necessarily the same. Which is different from the Berzerkers and Noise Marines, in which the Cults expanded from specific Legions. A Berzerker will always be assumed as being a World Eater because the birthplace of the Berzerkers, their status quo and their cults are in the World Eaters. But when it comes to the Raptors, the birthplace of the Raptor is the VIII Legion, their status quo as egomaniacs and hunters comes from across the Legions and no one knows where the Cults came from.

 

At least, that's the conclusion I've drawn. As I wasn't around for 3.5 or the earlier GW-published fluff, I might be missing bits and pieces.

[Greyall]

Hmm, I see what you mean, but I've always assumed Raptors were an offshoot of the traitor Legions' assault troops, the most predatory and hunt-driven of them. Whereas the Catulans go for direct confrontation and slaughter, the Night Raptors go for surprise and marauding.

 

There's ample time during the Scouring for those most self-centered and 'peculiar' of the assault marines to join Night Lord bands (who, instead of fleeing directly into the Eye, hid and raided the Imperium for a while) and, in time, either become assimilated or form new warbands.

 

Yes, Raptors differ from Berserkers or Noisies. But they have common traits among them like the latters. And, so far, our best indication for an origin to those common traits are the Night Lords, especially the preference for weaker prey.

 

The Circle of Ash do qualify to an extent, actually. Raiding knowledge centers should provide some very hard confrontations against librarians...

[Kol Saresk]

Oh no doubt, I'm not saying that the Raptors have no ties to any specific Legion. It is definitely a possibility that the Cults at one point or another, were Night Raptor-affiliated. And I have no doubt in my mind, that is how Forgeworld(or at least GW) will try to swing it. Partially why I'm amused that the VIII Legion's Rite of War promotes an Infiltrate/Drop-Pod List, not a Raptor or even FA list. Funnily enough, that went to the SoH.

 

But in a way, that's the catch 22. The 40K Raptors are egomaniacal. As far as we know, the Assault Command Company known as the Raptors are the first among first. The title "Raptor" carries a certain weight to it within the Crusade-era Assault Troops, the same way Justaerin, Grave Warden or Atramentar carries a certain weight to it for the Terminators.

 

So whenever the Raptor Cults become a thing, they can end up calling themselves Raptors for one of two reasons. One, they were physically associated with the Raptors in one form or another at the beginning. Two, those Cults that didn't have actual Raptors in their ranks took the name as a way of saying "I am the elite" to help fuel their egos. And over the time, those Cults that didn't call themselves Raptors would eventually be associated as such for no particular reason other than the uniqueness of the title has since been lost.

 

Although in a way, number two is quite a bit perplexing.

 

What I'd find supremely funny is if the first group to call itself a Raptor Cult was actually a group of Renegade Assault Marines from one of the Second or Third Founding Chapters.

[Greyall]

Aye, there's that gap between an existing squad and newcomers who we know can't all be from the Night Lords that's pretty puzzling.

 

I hope nothing like that last possibility you mentioned happens, I'd like for the Night Lord squads to indeed set an example and a bar to every psycho-jetpacker, not for a random renegade to say "We prey on the loyalist scum, dropping like raptors from the sky. Hey, that's it: Raptors!" "Wasn't that the name of a Nigh...""Raptors!"

[Kol Saresk]

Well actually my example is basically saying that the Night Raptors left such a strong impression in history that when a random group of Renegades pop up, they look back them and draw inspiration from the original Raptors an even going so far as to claim their name. The same way everyone wants to be Spartan(or SPARTAN). But with the twist that the first true Raptor Cult, wasn't even made by Heresy-veterans.

[Flint13]

So does anyone else feel like the Nightraptors getting +d3 attacks on the charge is more World Eatery than Nightlordsy?

Don't get me wrong, a unit equipped with chainglaives (as they *all* can apparently have) would be absolutely brutal. Fluff-wise, are Nightraptors supposed to be that amazingly savage?

[Greyall]

They are since their best bet to stay alive is to deal as much unexpected damage as possible. [They assume that] if they stick around for an old-fashioned sword-fight, they'll die.

[depthcharge12]

So does anyone else feel like the Nightraptors getting +d3 attacks on the charge is more World Eatery than Nightlordsy?

Don't get me wrong, a unit equipped with chainglaives (as they *all* can apparently have) would be absolutely brutal. Fluff-wise, are Nightraptors supposed to be that amazingly savage?

Yeah I've already plagued the B&C with my negative nancy aspect to the WEs rule set, but I agree.

The WE charge, which they are known for, is extremely lackluster (especially considering the nails getting to them before the killing). My only hope ben kenobi, was for the massacre right of war, but even that was lame.

Hatred out of deployment, good

Reroll run movements of one, meh, but good

Reroll pinning checks, fluffy but crap since there are very few pinning weapons in HH

Must always sweeping advance? What the bleep?! They do that anyway dipstick, why is this even there?

and as a side note, what is this whole marked by dark fates rule? Khârn and Abby have it, but it doesn't make sense in the current context of the game and just seems completely useless unless playing a campaign with friends

[Flint13]

Hmm... Good point Greyall. It does seem pretty fluffy now that I think about it like that. What's the best way to keep from getting killed? Savagely murdicate any possible hope of retaliation before it gets a chance to hit back!

 

@Depth - I hope you don't hate me for this but the *ONE* and only thing that kept me from playing World Eaters when I went 30k was the lameness of the rules set for them. I love their color scheme and penchant for axes, but while FW seems to have fluffily nailed Nightlords, Salamanders and Word Bearers, they have kinda missed the Mark for World Eaters.

 

It seems like it would be so simple to fix them and make them super-fluffy to accurately portray the nails *and* awesome at the same time! Something like:

 

Astartes (World Eater)

-Gains Rage, characters gain furious charge. (Because they are World Eaters. They *invented* rage)

-Gains fearless after breaking/running down an enemy in close combat (The nails are really singing now)

-Gains Hatred when outnumbered in close combat. Characters gain Rampage. Bulky models count as 2, etc for enemy models but *not* for World Eater Models (Because nothing gets the nails going like impossible odds)

[depthcharge12]

Hmm... Good point Greyall. It does seem pretty fluffy now that I think about it like that. What's the best way to keep from getting killed? Savagely murdicate any possible hope of retaliation before it gets a chance to hit back!

 

@Depth - I hope you don't hate me for this but the *ONE* and only thing that kept me from playing World Eaters when I went 30k was the lameness of the rules set for them. I love their color scheme and penchant for axes, but while FW seems to have fluffily nailed Nightlords, Salamanders and Word Bearers, they have kinda missed the Mark for World Eaters.

 

It seems like it would be so simple to fix them and make them super-fluffy to accurately portray the nails *and* awesome at the same time! Something like:

 

Astartes (World Eater)

-Gains Rage, characters gain furious charge. (Because they are World Eaters. They *invented* rage)

-Gains fearless after breaking/running down an enemy in close combat (The nails are really singing now)

-Gains Hatred when outnumbered in close combat. Characters gain Rampage. Bulky models count as 2, etc (Because nothing gets the nails going like impossible odds)

 

 

Im not angry (lol) and I agree with you, I am almost tempted to switch armies but I dont want to seem like a WAAC player, which I'm not.

 

 

I love the blue on white, I love the chainaxes, but it seems we got the but end of the rules set.

 

The other armies have intrinsic rules that activate regardless of other factors. The world eaters are the *only* ones that have something that activates after combat...and lets be real, you may get in 2 rounds of combat and maybe, just maybe be able to charge another unit.

 

 

SoH - get more attacks if more guys (i get the FW gangbanger aspect), but really? This works with WEs, they kill all their enemies, or they're dead, plus they have either the 3rd or 4th largest legion

 

 

EC - extra d3 for sweeping advance? hmm its not like the butchers nails sing and make the WEs pursue their enemy and cut them down...which you know, is their rise to fame but hey

 

 

NLs- they nailed it, they can keep their stuff along with the DG

 

 

 

I wish we did see more rampage, and even the old fleet or old furious charge rule (+1 initiative was huuuge)

 

 

 

Ill slow my rant

[Flint13]

I know right? There seems to be a few huge Nightlord and Deathguard fanboys in the halls of Forgeworld.

 

But you're right. Even something as small as a couple extra inches of pursuit or letting the World Eaters charge after running would do leaps and bounds of good to getting them to where they need to be. As it stands, I guess we can only hope some of the new special units and Rites will get them closer to the awesome legion they should be. 

[depthcharge12]

I agree, hopefully the Signus book will help them out as the DA's are attacking their forgeworld Sarum

 

 

I want to see some Dark Mechanicus support for them in the form of ursus claws, attached cybernetica squads, and better logistics since they fuel their war machine and have plenty of armor to give them

 

 

mmmmh ursus claws...is there anything they cant do? :D

[Balthamal]

I know it's a hell of a long way away but I'd expect to see them taking a massive buffing when Calth/Shadow Crusade comes around