Another standard of devastation question.

[Eternal Warrior]

Good day to all. Forgive me as I can only imagine you are sick of these q questions as the codex has gained some experience and the "ZOMGgolly geeBBQ DAKKA STICK!" is past it's prime but I find myself fascinated by this unique (trans; expensive) artifact.

 

Let me start off by saying that I have collected space marines for over 15 years but the last two or so years have seen me playing other games because of priority and cost. So I am not too savvy when it comes to this edition. So with that in mind could the veterans of the rock help me with how to use this effectively/efficiently?

 

My eternal gratitude.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Add one command squad with SoD and 3 tactical squads and a land raider crusader. In alternative you can have a RW command squad with same banner and bike squads, for twinlinked salvo 4 goodness. The plan is straightforward but do requires some effort to make it work on the tabletop.

[[TA]Typher]

Deathwing or get out.

 

 

Lol just kidding. Welcome back.... But really Deathwing or get out.

[march10k]

Well...it has a limited radius of effect, but thankfully it affects units, not models.  That lets you get more bolters into the area of effect without presenting a "blob of demolisher cannon targeting" to the enemy.  I think the norm is to get four or five squads into range, two to each side, layered 2 deep with at least 2 models per squad within range of the banner, and possibly one directly in front of the banner as an assault screen.  But that's on a terrain-free board...you'll have to adapt it to the terrain and your list.  But the basic idea is to spam tactical squads within range of the banner without getting too bunched up.

 

Some people insist on stripping heavy and/or special weapons out of the squads that are using the banner in order to maximize the number of boltguns that benefit, but I think that's silly.  What's better than a banner-influenced boltgun? A plasma cannon, that's what! 

 

The main problem with a dakkapole-reliant list (that is exacerbated when you strip out everything that isn't a boltgun!) is that the banner is carried by a five man squad of marines in power armor.  How do you keep that alive when it's the keystone of your list?  There are several options.  Ideally, you deny LOS.  Doing that while still deploying decently is highly situational.  Hiding inside a crusader not only lets you spread out the client squads a lot more, it's the best vehicular protection you can provide.  As an added bonus...hurricane bolters benefit from the banner!  It's expensive, but the squad has access to storm shields...I would say that maybe two of them would be a good buy.

 

A lot of people will advocate a rhino as "protection" for the command squad.  Bovine feces, I say!  An AV11 vehicle is not going to survive turn one if the enemy wants to kill the squad inside.  If you're spamming rhinos for generic squads, okay, most of them will live a few turns.  When your most important model is hiding inside a rhino, that rhino is dead, and so is the model.  AV11 is just too easy.  It will not keep the squad alive any longer than a patch of cover will....because it will become a patch of cover instead of a vehicle any time the enemy wants.  Might as well save the points and put them in cover. 

[[TA]Typher]

I think if you are going greenwing the SoD is great. I agree with lucifer and March, gunline and LRC are the way to go if you have the points and models.

[Eternal Warrior]

Thank you all. And dual thank you apologies to the mods for double posting the thread. I'll try not to create questions at 2am.

 

I am so torn about the Deathwing as I am afraid of gravy cannon (grav cannon) spam but now that I think of it my two buddies I play with play necrons and dark eldar. While I am here does the DWK fortress of shields ability come into great use or is it a "looks good on paper" type of thing. You guys rock and thanks again.

[Aradiel]

well, the FoS bumps your T to 5, so its usefulness depends on the strenght of the attacks coming your way. it makes a diference against anything up to S6, but for S7 and above its irrelevant, it will continue to wound on 2+

[AngelVeto]

However it does prevent st8 and st9 from causing instant death...

[Aradiel]

indeed it does, but the knights themselves have 1 wound so its irrelevant, and what weapons would actualy pose a serious treat to the 1 or two multi-wound chars in the unit? i am pretty much out of the game, but there is the vindicator and battlecannons (defiler and leman russ) as they are template weapons and the tight formation needed to the bonus is asking for a pie plate, apart from that anything else?

weapons like lascannons and such are rather easy to avoid targeting that char in the first place

[Chaplain Lucifer]

indeed it does, but the knights themselves have 1 wound so its irrelevant, and what weapons would actualy pose a serious treat to the 1 or two multi-wound chars in the unit? i am pretty much out of the game, but there is the vindicator and battlecannons (defiler and leman russ) as they are template weapons and the tight formation needed to the bonus is asking for a pie plate, apart from that anything else?

weapons like lascannons and such are rather easy to avoid targeting that char in the first place

Well, you can use the formation with an IC and use the IC new T5 as teh new lascannon catcher... each lascannon wound on the IC is one DW knight alive. Situational but useful nonetheless.

[march10k]

T5 on a model that already has a 2+/3++ save and WS5?  It's adding insult to injury!  Not only is your wound not getting past my save...wait, there is no wound! 

 

Personally, I like it for reducing the number of saves that you have to make against enemy shooting.  Whether it's a lasgun or a pulse rifle, T5 makes a HUGE difference in the number of wounds you have to save.

 

Buffing a character to T5, well, as Luci said, it's situational. 

 

It's probably a good thing against power axes, too...but how many of those do you see? 

 

I just really like the psychological effect that it has on the enemy.

[Garath]

  On standard of Devastation

 

  I agree with everything written above.  One thing also worth mentioning is scouts.

 

  Basic  scout squad of 10 with bolters comes out cheaper then an upgraded tactical squad.  There are several disadvantages scouts have, the prime being lower bs and worse save in this case.

 

  The benefits they provide, however , make them a squad wort mentioning:

 

- they can  infiltrate  .  Not only do they start within the magical 24"  range of the bolter, they also deploy after the enemy.  Ensuring they have range and Los to a least a part of the enemy force.

- they don't require getting into range, as hey can start up the board

 

  Consider this:   LRC with command squad inside. 2 scout units infiltrated, Land raider moves up. Together they fire 80 bolter shots and 24 twin linked bolter shots.  All for around less then 700 pts, depending on  what the CS is packing.

 

  If you go first you can outshoot TAU firewarrior spam lists.

 

 Add in black knight grenades and a libby and things start looking very dangerous 

[Cactus]

indeed it does, but the knights themselves have 1 wound so its irrelevant,

 

Changing the instant death threshold allows you to make Feel No Pain rolls too. That would require the Standard of Fortitude though, so you're right that it's not relevant to a Standard of Devastation discussion.

[Eternal Warrior]

This is great information. Thank you all. I went through some second hand bitz and found the sprue to make an un-robed tactical squad. Also the bits to make 2 plasma cannons so I think those need to happen.