Mini-Batrep:Dark Angels vs. Blood Angels

[Primacy]

So yesterday, I played a game against a Blood Angels drop pod dreadnought force with my list, approx. 1750-1800pts. This is the one I was using: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281118-new-da-multi-wing-army/. Thinking I was up against other space marine infantry, I loaded a bunch of plasma and missile launchers. What followed was a massacre of mythic proportions. I take first turn and deployment. It is still unknown to me that I'm facing 100% drop pods. Emperor's Will with Vanguard deployment, no Night Fighting. Keep in mind this is my second game of 6th Ed., and probably 4th game of 40k ever.

Tac Squad's deployed in a line in my deployment zone. At its center is Azrael (proxied) with the Dakka Banner. My Lib (Lvl 1) deploys with the Dev squad in the left rear. My Bikes come in on the far left flank. DW left in reserve, to come in on Turn 2. 

Turn 1 -
+DA: My plan is to steadily move up with my dakka line and shoot everything in front of me. Only now do I realize I am playing an opponent with nothing on the field. I secure my own objective and spread out my tac squads. I don't know whats coming and I'm not sure how to deal with it. I send my bikes up 12in towards the center of the battlefield. 
+BA: He lands in 4 drop pods. 3 of which are behind my line of tac squads. The 4th is dead center among them. 3 Furioso's and a Librarian dread. Equipped with Frag Cannons, Heavy Flamers, and the Lib's psychic power Blood Lance. I lose a handful of marines in the resulting fire, including the apothecary and company champion. Fortunately, they land mostly in difficult terrain and are having a seriously hard time getting out of it. He locks up one tac squad in close combat. As Furioso's, I literally can do nothing to stop them. The drop pods' storm bolters hit nothing.

Turn 2 -
+DA: Having never faced a drop pod force before, I decide to turn and shoot the hell out of everything I can. I wheel my bikes around, to see if i can assist my beleaguered infantry. Here, I begin to have what I can safely call the worst rolling of my life. My Termies suffer mishaps and are delayed until Turn 3. I suffer 3 Get Hot's among the Tac Squads, losing all of them, 2 plasma guns and a plasma cannon. My 4 missile launchers in the dev squad (with Prescience from the Lib) inflict not even one Glance. I face palm HARD. Az shoots his combi-plasma just to see if I can get anything at all, and I can't even roll to pen the side armor. More facepalming. At this point, the drop pods have serious limited the area for maneuver of my troops. 
+BA: He lands another 3 drop pods (he has a total of 9). These dread's land infront of my Tac line and a death company squad with Lib on the left flank, surrounding me. The drop pods essentially cordon off my infantry. He starts shooting again, the flamers, frag cannons, and Blood Lance ripping through my marines. I save more than I thought, but by the end of this turn I've got 6 members at most in a tac squads, and I'm down to 4 in others. The Command Squad lost everyone but Az and the Banner. He moves in to assault, and locks up 3 of my tac squads, killing more. Lots more. 

Turn 3 - 
+DA: My DW finally come in. I drop them to the flank of my Tac squads, hoping to use their firepower against the side and rear armors of the Dreads. I fail most of my rolls. Even with twin-linked from the the Vengeful Strike, I roll like my hand was allergic to anything over 2. I get a glance with the Cyclone on the Lib dread. I try shooting with the only things that I can. My one Tac squad and my Dev's. My Dev's take their desperate shots at the death company dread behind them, but, due to a curious ruling in the BA codex, the Lib was able to cast Shield of Sanguinus and it literally saves every single missile I fire at him. Facepalming with the force of a thousand suns. Finally, I shoot with my 4 man tac squad. Bolters only. Rolling 8 dice, I land 4 Pens on the rear armor of a dreadnought, killing it. I claim first blood. 
+BA: the remainder of his drop pods land. 3 pods, containing 2 more dreads and another death company squad, separate my Termies from the fight. I am now faced with a massive wall of drop pods that prevent my army from assisting each other. 4 of my Terminators fall to the attack of the death company in CC. I kill 3. He shoots my bikes with autocannons and melta's, blasting 4 of them. I have only a Sgt. and the 2 plasma guns remaining. He annihilates 3/4 of my Tac squads in CC. The last is only 2in away from the table edge, having failed their morale checks and only just saved themselves. They are 4 men strong. Casting Fear the Darkness on my Dev squad, I fail my Deny the Witch AND my Leadership test. The Dev's squad and the Lib run off the board. 

Turn 4 -
+DA: I have 2 bikes left. The two plasma guns. I suffer a Get Hot, and fail my save. 1 more down. The last biker bakes a bee-line for the nearest dread, attempting to stick a melta bomb in the rear armor. The last Tac squad, all 4 marines deep, shoot at his second Death Company squad, killing 3. Somehow I am infinitely more effective with bolters than anything else at all. Knowing I lost, but forgetting I even got First Blood, I strike out with my Terminators trying to get what I believe is even a single kill. They fail in spectacular fashion. I lose the entire squad to the squad of death company marines, having killed only 5 of them. My opponent, the good natured owner of my LGS, reminds me I have first blood. I immediately concede the battle. I was just looking to kill at least one thing before I accepted my humiliating defeat. 

Blood Angels win. 

All in all, I think I just lost due to inexperience. That and some very, VERY bad luck. I asked the store owner for some advice, and he repeated much of what I've seen here. Except he disagreed about using just a single rhino in the force. He thought it would be relatively useless, and recommended instead I take something like an Aegis Defense Line. He also recommended that I tailor each of my Tac squads to a particular mission, as in giving one meltas and making it anti armor, giving one plasma and making it anti-heavy infantry, giving one flamer and a PC/missile launcher for anti-blob/swarm, and one the last to fill in the gaps for a given game. He also recommending not just speeding my bikes off towards the middle of the map first turn. I'm not a sore loser. I enjoy any experience I get to learn in, and I definitely think this game has taught me more about the game. 

What are all of your thoughts? Any comments, questions and statements are welcome. What did I do wrong? Right? What should I have done differently? 

[Nemesis2127]

Curious was your opponent using Astorath the Grim ,as he allows you to take more than one death company .You was unlucky with your dice rolling but that happens to all of us at one time or another ,  Also was all in his Army in drop pods or did he have any jump pack troops .

[Dafoo]

I always put power fists on my Sargeants just in case stuff like this happens. If you would have had even just two PFists you could have hurt the big ol Furioso's. I play both DA and BA so this match up is of particular interest to me. I like the DakkaPole but I think your list just needs a little tweaking. 

 

Your Ravenwings should have built in Teleport Homers, so keep that in mind for the future. Use them as vangaurds for your termies since they give you a free six inch mishap free zone. Also don't forget about Deathwing Assault you get to chose when your terminators show up, combo that with the homers and you have a really solid strike force. Maybe the board was set up weird and you couldn't do that or you forgot I can't tell from the batrep just trying to give some advice.

 

Well it was a dark day for the sons of the lion. Best of luck on your next go around.

[Flake]

Nice Batrep. For what it's worth, I think you should get a re-match with your friend. You've learned from the game and you deserve a chance to try again. Hopefully your luck will be better!

 

Kinda off topic but you mentioned that you're relatively new to 40K yet you are playing one of the most obscure armies this side of the Black Templar or the Sisters of Battle. As a newer player, what drew you to the 1st Legion?

[Primacy]

Curious was your opponent using Astorath the Grim ,as he allows you to take more than one death company .You was unlucky with your dice rolling but that happens to all of us at one time or another , Also was all in his Army in drop pods or did he have any jump pack troops .

I don't think he did. The only HQ was his Lib, which was not a special character. I'm new to the game, so I know he had at least one death company. The other was a 10 man squad with the lib attached, all of whom were carrying bolt pistols and chainswords. The unit that killed the Termies was confirmed death company. It may have been an error naming the other squad.

I always put power fists on my Sargeants just in case stuff like this happens. If you would have had even just two PFists you could have hurt the big ol Furioso's. I play both DA and BA so this match up is of particular interest to me. I like the DakkaPole but I think your list just needs a little tweaking.

Your Ravenwings should have built in Teleport Homers, so keep that in mind for the future. Use them as vangaurds for your termies since they give you a free six inch mishap free zone. Also don't forget about Deathwing Assault you get to chose when your terminators show up, combo that with the homers and you have a really solid strike force. Maybe the board was set up weird and you couldn't do that or you forgot I can't tell from the batrep just trying to give some advice.

Well it was a dark day for the sons of the lion. Best of luck on your next go around.

I totally forgot about the teleport homers. I'll remember that for next time. I should have done a better job describing the terrain, but it was very limited. There was lots of blocking terrain that limited my LoS. Thank you for your advice, brother.

Nice Batrep. For what it's worth, I think you should get a re-match with your friend. You've learned from the game and you deserve a chance to try again. Hopefully your luck will be better!

Kinda off topic but you mentioned that you're relatively new to 40K yet you are playing one of the most obscure armies this side of the Black Templar or the Sisters of Battle. As a newer player, what drew you to the 1st Legion?

Hopefully it would be! I have never seen so many 1's on the table :D But as far as my choice in going DA, I was immediately attracted by the character and fluff of the Chapter. In my opinion, no other army in the 40k universe has the intrigue that the Unforgiven have given me.

[Flake]

That's how it was for me. I started playing in the last year or so of Fifth and even though Blood Angels, SM, SW, and GK were out, I still gravitated towards the DA. They were the only power armor army that didn't seem insufferable. Definitely get a rematch and let us know how it goes.

[march10k]

Hmmm.  Well, in your fourth game ever, you probably can't expect a win against an exotic list like "drop pod furiosos," but even an experienced player will have problems when he deploys without knowing that he's facing a drop pod list.  In order to have a fair fight, you have to start mitigating the impact of the drop pods in your deployment.  You literally laid out a smorgasboard for him!  Take it as an opportunity to learn, and just get better every time!

[Syphid]

How did your opponent start the game with nothing on the board, and 9 drop pods?  You can only hold 50% of your units in reserve.

[[TA]Typher]

How did your opponent start the game with nothing on the board, and 9 drop pods? You can only hold 50% of your units in reserve.

Pods don't count toward the reserve limit.

 

But back to the OP.

 

Bikes with meltas and melta bombs and lascannons. I wrote you a more detailed description under you original post.

[bravo-52]

I was reading over the battle report and I had a couple of questions. How many dreadnoughts total did he have? And correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure you can't assault from a drop pod the turn you show up so how did he tie up one of your squads in the first turn with the furioso? Not trying to create animosity between you and him ( I play both DW and BA, actually Angels of Absolution and Flesh Tearers) but, I think he may need to go over the rules again. BTW welcome to the unforgiven, like you the fluff is what attracted me to the DA as my first 40k army 16 years ago. Beware you'll get hooked with the sons of the lion. Like the song says "you can check out any time you want, but you may never leave."

[shortysl]

Turn 1 he locks a Tac Squad in close combat? How did he justify a charge after Deep Striking?

[InstantKarma]

Turn 1 he locks a Tac Squad in close combat? How did he justify a charge after Deep Striking?

 

Indeed.  He might have justified it by the Open-topped rule, but that doesn't override Deep Strike.

 

Also your Termies should not have been delayed on turn 2, since you have DWA they either come in on turn 1 or turn 2 right?

 

 

[Jolemai]

What was his list? Only on the report above he dropped three Furiosos and a Furioso Librarian on the first turn - that's four elite choices.

 

Also, shouldn't he have dropped five Pods on the first turn due to the Drop Pod Assault rule?

[shortysl]

 

Turn 1 he locks a Tac Squad in close combat? How did he justify a charge after Deep Striking?

 

Indeed.  He might have justified it by the Open-topped rule, but that doesn't override Deep Strike.

 

Also your Termies should not have been delayed on turn 2, since you have DWA they either come in on turn 1 or turn 2 right?

 

 

Yeah I agree. OP, sounds like your opponent was either wilfully ignorant or not quite sure of the rules. Units cannot Assault on the Turn they Deep Strike unless they have a rule that explicitly allows it. Drop Pods do not allow it.

 

Also, Instantkarma is correct. Deathwing Terminators deploy on either Turn 1 or Turn 2, chosen before the game. They do not require a Reserves roll and therefore cannot be delayed. I point these issues out to let you know that your loss may not be limited to your experience of the game. There's a very real possibility that your opponent contributed to your loss through either a lack of knowledge or a wilful misinterpretation of certain rules.

 

Anyway, don't be disheartened; Drop Pods are a difficult list to counter but target priority can really help. Most lists will feature a maximum of two really dangerous Melee units. Hit these first so that you have a chance of weathering the inevitable Turn 2 charges. The Standard of Devastation will of course help with this, as well as making your opponent wary about where exactly to drop.

 

If your friend is ok with Forge World, grab a few units with Interceptor. The Mortis/Contemptor Mortis is handy for hitting units coming out of Drop Pods as they can target the disembarking unit rather than having to engage the Pod itself.

[InstantKarma]

Another thing Primacy, but this is more coming from reading posts on B&C and not from experience, you descirbed your deployment and first turn as spreading out your troops.  Given you had SoD and by turn one with him with nothing on the table and you realised it was a Drop Pod list, I've seen it said that 'castling' can be a good counter, since it also seems like he didn't bring too many pie-plate weps.  By spreading out it becomes harder to support your units AND makes it easier for him to single out a unit to be focus-fired/charged.

Also as I think someone else stated, he should have been deploying 5 drop pods, as if he had 9 in total, you are required to round up for the turn 1 DPA, so half of 9 being 4.5 would mean he should have put 5 down.  While that may not sound reassuring, it would have possibly meant him risking a unit he would not otherwise have had to in turn 1, and since he cannot chareg you means you would have gotten a free round of shooting on said unit.

I'm agreeing with shortsyl that either this guy is also new to rules and forgetful, or possibly being willfuly ignorant if not blatantly ignoring rules and it sounds like to me that this contributed much to your defeat, not necessarily your lack of experience.

P.S. My local GW is Chaos/Xeno heavy and I have never played against a Drop Pod army before, so please take what i'm saying with a bit'o salt.

[Primacy]

I was reading over the battle report and I had a couple of questions. How many dreadnoughts total did he have? And correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure you can't assault from a drop pod the turn you show up so how did he tie up one of your squads in the first turn with the furioso? Not trying to create animosity between you and him ( I play both DW and BA, actually Angels of Absolution and Flesh Tearers) but, I think he may need to go over the rules again. BTW welcome to the unforgiven, like you the fluff is what attracted me to the DA as my first 40k army 16 years ago. Beware you'll get hooked with the sons of the lion. Like the song says "you can check out any time you want, but you may never leave."

Hm. Well it sounds like I missed some of the rules. If I remember correctly he had 6 dreads out on the field when the game ended. I remember him saying he had 9 pods in total and he had all dreads except for the 2 infantry squads.

Turn 1 he locks a Tac Squad in close combat? How did he justify a charge after Deep Striking?

This is news to me. Like I said, I'm essentially new to the game. He declared charge and I just thought it was normal turn procedure.

Turn 1 he locks a Tac Squad in close combat? How did he justify a charge after Deep Striking?

Indeed. He might have justified it by the Open-topped rule, but that doesn't override Deep Strike.

Also your Termies should not have been delayed on turn 2, since you have DWA they either come in on turn 1 or turn 2 right?

This is totally on me. I didn't realize I had DWA before it was too late Still learning all the rules.

What was his list? Only on the report above he dropped three Furiosos and a Furioso Librarian on the first turn - that's four elite choices.

Also, shouldn't he have dropped five Pods on the first turn due to the Drop Pod Assault rule?

I'm trying to remember, and I know he had 9 pods. As I said above, I believe he had 6 dreads on the field at the end, and I had killed one. And he had two 10 man infantry squads, at least one of which was Death Company. That makes 7 dreadnoughts, 1 death company and 1 Tac squad (I'm guessing). And I can't answer your Drop Pod Assault question. Having never dealt with drop pods before, I don't know the rule. When the game was being played I trusted him to know what was going on and to be fair. It was just a casual game.

[Cactus]

Lucius drop pods allow a dreadnought to assault after deep striking, unless that changed in a recent Forge World book.

 

Deep striking Deathwing squads can still suffer a mishap that causes them to be delayed, or even destroyed.

[Syphid]

Lucius drop pods allow a dreadnought to assault after deep striking, unless that changed in a recent Forge World book. Deep striking Deathwing squads can still suffer a mishap that causes them to be delayed, or even destroyed.

 

It has.  Now it has Shrouded on the turn to lands, and provides Shrouded to the dreadnought if it is still touching the pod and to any unit being shot at using LoS through the pod.

[InstantKarma]

Lucius drop pods allow a dreadnought to assault after deep striking, unless that changed in a recent Forge World book. Deep striking Deathwing squads can still suffer a mishap that causes them to be delayed, or even destroyed.

 

Did I miss the part where he said they were some sort of FW drop pod, because I didn't get that in his OP or any of his subsequent posts and frankly it just sounds over powered to allow assault after deep striking.  More reason to dislike FW rules if not the models.

[Primacy]

 

Did I miss the part where he said they were some sort of FW drop pod, because I didn't get that in his OP or any of his subsequent posts and frankly it just sounds over powered to allow assault after deep striking.  More reason to dislike FW rules if not the models.

 

It was not a FW model as far as I could tell. 

[bravo-52]

I know the Lucius pod rules have changed, but if I remember correctly, in the original rules, blood angels couldn't use them, for this same reason. To ensure they didn't abuse the furioso rules with them.

[Dafoo]

He could have been using 2 Furioso's a Librarian and a singular Death Company Dreadnaught. They are the same model as the Furiosos and have a similar equipment load out. If the models were not painted then it is very possible our new player got them mixed up. Having 10 death company he gets to take two DCD's. So that is 5 Dreads accounted for. Regular Dreadnaughts are Heavy Suport for BA so he could have had two of those floating around I suppose.

 

Wish I knew more about the forgeworld stuff, Lucius Pods sound pretty cool as I am making a Fragioso Pod list myself at the moment.

[Primacy]

He could have been using 2 Furioso's a Librarian and a singular Death Company Dreadnaught. They are the same model as the Furiosos and have a similar equipment load out. If the models were not painted then it is very possible our new player got them mixed up. Having 10 death company he gets to take two DCD's. So that is 5 Dreads accounted for. Regular Dreadnaughts are Heavy Suport for BA so he could have had two of those floating around I suppose.

Wish I knew more about the forgeworld stuff, Lucius Pods sound pretty cool as I am making a Fragioso Pod list myself at the moment.

He had one Death Company dread, I know for sure. I don't enough about BA to determine them from the others, however. All of his dread were primarily black.

I think I would have had a better chance if I had been able to get to take some shots on side/rear armor and not rolled so many Get Hots....and not even managing to glance with ML's

[Dafoo]

Black "Usually" is how BA players mark their DC. Not always mind you. He can take one DC Dread for ever 5 Models. If he only had ten that is two DC Dreads. He might have painted them however he wanted but just an FYI Blood Angels can field 8 Dreadnaughts and only have 10 MEQ's on the board if they want to. If he took Astorath (but as you stated he took a librarian) he could have taken 20 in ten man units and fielded 4 DC dreads. DC can take bolters as well as BP and CS. It is a VERY killy list especially if you guys were not playing for objectives. Not sure if that helps you any.

 

I always have a tendency to ask to see the opponents list. I have read most of the codices so it helps me figure out what they are trying to do just by looking at the pen and paper. Next time around ask what your opponents are doing if only for learning purposes. You are new to the game so they should be more than happy to help you understand the game a bit better. If not they might not be the type of person you want to sit across the table from. I would recommend this especially against non Power Armor based armies. Those are the ones that can really throw a wrench in your game plan since they play completely differently.

 

Furthermore don't get discouraged by this one loss. Check out your army on pen and paper go over the rules make your game plan for every time you play. It's not too difficult to lose a game when you don't use even just a fifth of your special rules. For example there was this one time a GK player got a ton of free Psycher powers off because I never bothered to use my Psychic Hood (this was back in 5th for all the rules lawyers out there), I will never know if I would have done better against his STR 5 shots or if he would have even had them. I messed up payed points for something I didn't use and lost, maybe it wouldn't have changed the game if I had used my Hood but now I will never know. Better rolls do help as well but no one ever knows when the dice gods are angry... except maybe Chaos Demon players.. they always know.