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Unremembered Empire....initial review

Blood Angel Scout

By Blood Angel Scout
in + AGE OF DARKNESS +

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Kol Saresk Venerable Brother

Kol Saresk

Posted
Posted

He didn't just make excuses, though. He blames Horus flat out. Internal monologue about how fast he proved himself unworthy of the Warmaster title.

Yeah, but everyone else is "the warp did it".

 

Even Horus was something like "He was bad, but he was never that bad. Something pushed him over."

 

Surprisingly, Guilliman has(through analyzing Horus) has stumbled onto the truth of the Heresy in that it was orchestrated while being entirely ignorant of all the facts. But he's only seen part of truth. Much of it is still out there.

 

But his stance pretty much is "Johnny didn't do it. He did, but he didn't."

Kol Saresk Venerable Brother

Kol Saresk

Posted
Posted

Yeah, but unless I misread, IIRC, Guilliman blames the Betrayal on the corruption. So maybe "Johnny didn't do it. He did, but he didn't" is too harsh, but at the same time, Guilliman is looking at Horus, acknowledging where the corruption could have set in, and then blaming the corruption. In the case of Horus, this is actually one hundred percent true. Horus was loyal. Until Davin.

 

But only Horus. Everyone else fully made their choice to join Horus, for one reason or the other. They can't exactly be excused by the same reasoning that Horus can be.

Kol Saresk Venerable Brother

Kol Saresk

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For one reason or another. Fulgrim chose to pick up the Laer sword. Every choice he made, was a choice he made. He did it under the advice of a daemon whispering in his ear, but he is still the one to make those choices.

 

Magnus, it all started out when he made a deal with the Devil. And just Johnny from that song, he thought he had won. What he didn't realize was that by making a deal with the Devil, the Devil would get his soul either way. Magnus chose to make a choice that would start a chain of events that would ultimately lead to his becoming a daemon prince. Something pretty much all of the Primarchs.

 

Technically, even though Horus was corrupted at Davin, he still said yes and gave Erebus the oppurtunity to corrupt him.

Conn Eremon Veteran

Conn Eremon

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Eh, Guilliman didn't simply blame the corruption as if it was some separate entity, like the traitors were victims. He did, after all, use the word corruption. They are not what they once were, but they are what they are now. I don't think he was saying they were blameless. It was more that he saw their corruption as the point where everything spiraled out of control. Which is very, very true.
Tonal Battle-Brother

Tonal

Posted
Posted
Yes because the Emperor is known for not double-checking his work. :P I actually can see, admittedly from a Salamander fanboy perspective, that Vulkan was given it on purpose. Out of all of the Primarchs, Vulkan was most suited to a life after the Great Crusade. Quietly farming away on Nocturne and occasionally opening a new space-mall of something. A quietly guiding hand to help the Emperor keep Humanity on the right track.
Hephaesteus Veteran

Hephaesteus

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I can't add much to the discussion. I loved the book, but mostly people have covered the points I might make. So many little nods to other things were fantastic.

However, I may have one original thought!

Hopefully this isn't a spoiler (that the unkillable primarch might well be unkillable!)

Do you reckon when vulkan reboots he will have been passed knowledge of the acuity?

So, that knowledge of the future makes him hide all the artefacts and write the tome of fire as preparation for his return in the end times? I am guessing he needs a long reboot to become sane again, as he became more crazy with the increasing speed of each resurrection, so he will return, possibly at the end of the heresy; but able to play a part in the formation of chapters and the next stage of the imperium?

Wade Garrett Veteran

Wade Garrett

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Wade I always liked your posts but I can`t help but shake my head on this one. I hope you are joking.

Not really. I personally despise the whole "unkillable Vulkan" thing because I think it guts what makes his character great (Bro in possibly the most UnBro setting in fiction).

 

Let me explain. One of my favorite scenes in The First Heretic is when Lorgar goes to fight Corax, with everyone screaming at him that the Raven

will kill him.

 

But he will not stand by and watch his sons be slaughtered, even if it costs his own life.

 

Now imagine that same scene, except Lorgar is already a Daemon Prince and if Corax smashes him he'll just reform in the Warp. It takes quite a bit away from his actions, no?

 

And that's what I see Vulkan Lives as doing to the Drake.

 

To try another analogy, Vulkan gets unlimited respawn and all the other Loyalists are playing on hardcore mode.

 

In my eyes, that actually makes him less heroic than Russ, Dorn, or Guilliman.

Wade Garrett Veteran

Wade Garrett

Posted
Posted

I'm not a fan of the Mega Man idea either, Cormac, and here's why. :p

 

"OH GOD THAT DOESN'T EXIST VULKAN IS CALLING HIMSELF THE BLACK DRAGON AND BURNING EVERYTHING!"

 

"Well duh. He kilt ole Curze an stole his special powers."

 

"You don't mean..."

 

"Yep. Bein' a hunnert percent bat crap crazy."

RapatoR Veteran

RapatoR

Posted
Posted

 

Wade I always liked your posts but I can`t help but shake my head on this one. I hope you are joking.

Not really. I personally despise the whole "unkillable Vulkan" thing because I think it guts what makes his character great (Bro in possibly the most UnBro setting in fiction).

 

Let me explain. One of my favorite scenes in The First Heretic is when Lorgar goes to fight Corax, with everyone screaming at him that the Raven

will kill him.

 

But he will not stand by and watch his sons be slaughtered, even if it costs his own life.

 

Now imagine that same scene, except Lorgar is already a Daemon Prince and if Corax smashes him he'll just reform in the Warp. It takes quite a bit away from his actions, no?

 

And that's what I see Vulkan Lives as doing to the Drake.

 

To try another analogy, Vulkan gets unlimited respawn and all the other Loyalists are playing on hardcore mode.

 

In my eyes, that actually makes him less heroic than Russ, Dorn, or Guilliman.

Not liking an idea is perfectly normal, Wade. Insulting someone and questioning his professionality just because you don't like that idea, however...

Also I doubt he is in easy mode. So far, his "perpetuality" made him more harm then good.

Greyall Venerable Brother

Greyall

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Didn't honestly expect an anti BL author-rant here. Aren't we better than this "dual wielding unfounded accusations" thing? I mean, the BL board of authors discusses fluff a good amount of time before it appears in story-form. And even if they didn't, you don't just go "I choose immortality for mine!""No, I wanted that, bloodrage sucks."

 

Anyway, on Guilliman's view of the traitors' corruption: he seems to also see it as a weakness, an opening. I could be reading too much into it, here, but there is some 'angered contempt' in Guilliman when he talks about this.

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