Shrouded Eldar Skimmer

[Calnus]

Was playing a friend's Eldar the other day, and he claimed he could get a 2+ cover save on his Wave Serpents.  I called :cuss, but he explained that it was because he had a Warlock inside casting Conceal, which gave the unit Shrouded.  Now I know Shrouded transfers to the unit with the attached character, but can it transfer to the unit's transport with them inside?  I didn't see anything to directly say no, nor anything to set a precedent to say yes, when I read through my mini-rulebook during the game so I went ahead and let him roll a Shrouded, holo-field boosted 2+ Jink save on his skimmers.  Sadly, this did not go well for me.

 

Now, I think this still stinks, so can anyone help me find a rule to say that Shrouded does not confer to the transport?

[Lucien Eilam]

No, but you don't need a rule that says that. He needs a rule that says it does transfer, and there isn't one.

 

Conceal gives the psyker Shrouded. Shrouded affects the unit that the model is part of. Embarking on a transport isn't the same as joining a unit. The Warlock's unit is the Guardian squad or whatever, not the Wave Serpent.

[Dam13n]

Shrouded affects him and his unit.  The transport is not part of his unit so doesn't benefit from it, even if his unit is embarked upon it.

 

Essentially all he's done is "fog up" the interior of the transport, which has no effect on gameplay.

 

Also, he likely already knows this and is probably a dirty cheater :P

[pyroknight]

A psycher can cast blessings on his transport, however effects that benefit the psycher and his unit do not affect the transport. 

[Dam13n]

Not if the wording is that the psychic power "affects/targets the psyker" (and his unit). 

 

Conceal targets the Psyker (and shrouded is a "if one model in the unit..." special rule)

[Calnus]

Ok, that was the deal.  We ended up arguing over who had evidence that it wasn't transferred (since it was a dedicated transport, he was arguing that purchased with = part of).

 

Since I probably won't be playing him again, its good to know.  Those things are hard enough to shut down with a damn near automatic 4+ cover, 2+ made them ridiculous.

[Dam13n]

Just charge it and beat it to death in melee.

 

It's a vehicle - no Overwatch

 

Hit on 3s (it will have moved)

 

Rear armour 10

 

No cover save

 

Easy.

 

Plus, if you manage to surround the vehicle and wreck it, the passengers are all killed into the bargain.

[Lucien Eilam]

Ok, that was the deal.  We ended up arguing over who had evidence that it wasn't transferred (since it was a dedicated transport, he was arguing that purchased with = part of).

 

The key thing to remember with 40k is that the rules are permissive. This means there are rules that tell you what you are allowed to do. They don't tell you things you can't do, except in the context of an exception to a rule.

 

The upshot is, if somebody tells you their unit is allowed to do something, it's up to them to prove it with a rules reference. Otherwise we'd all be free to make up whatever rules we like - "it doesn't say I can't kill your entire army with a 2+ on this D6".

[hallodx]

 

Ok, that was the deal.  We ended up arguing over who had evidence that it wasn't transferred (since it was a dedicated transport, he was arguing that purchased with = part of).

 

The key thing to remember with 40k is that the rules are permissive. This means there are rules that tell you what you are allowed to do. They don't tell you things you can't do, except in the context of an exception to a rule.

 

The upshot is, if somebody tells you their unit is allowed to do something, it's up to them to prove it with a rules reference. Otherwise we'd all be free to make up whatever rules we like - "it doesn't say I can't kill your entire army with a 2+ on this D6".

Yeah add 1 to permissive, or the BRB will likely go double bigger.