HaSY Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 One of the ironies is that while the Space Wolves packs were being sent to observe the legions under Sigilite's order, 40k Space Wolves and Inquisition (founded by Sigilite himself) had an uneasy relationship especially the Months of Shame. Didnt the Bjorn tell the kids that once upon a time, they were tirelessly and dutiful to performing for pseudo Inquisition ?Perhaps linked to their self-appointed or perceived role as executioners( but even Sigilite acknowledged Space Wolves role as executioner in Scars), Space Wolves packs were being sent to watch other Legions (Ultramarines, Blood Angels, etc), However, an off -topic issue is this, do we have Space Wolves packs in other Traitor Legions? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281501-irony-of-space-wolves-of-30k-and-40k/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Dog Studios Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 One of the ironies is that while the Space Wolves packs were being sent to observe the legions under Sigilite's order, 40k Space Wolves and Inquisition (founded by Sigilite himself) had an uneasy relationship especially the Months of Shame. Didnt the Bjorn tell the kids that once upon a time, they were tirelessly and dutiful to performing for pseudo Inquisition ? Perhaps linked to their self-appointed or perceived role as executioners( but even Sigilite acknowledged Space Wolves role as executioner in Scars), Space Wolves packs were being sent to watch other Legions (Ultramarines, Blood Angels, etc), However, an off -topic issue is this, do we have Space Wolves packs in other Traitor Legions? I wouldn't say that "they were tirelessly and dutiful to performing for pseudo inquisition", they were tirelessly performing to the duties given to them by the voice of the emperor. They were also not being treated like traitors by said pseudo inquisition either. On the topic of them being in traitor legions, I don't believe there has been anything written about that yet, if it happens! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281501-irony-of-space-wolves-of-30k-and-40k/#findComment-3487265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 On the topic of "Watch-packs," I got the impression that they are an effect of the Heresy, after some Legions and Lord Primarchs are already traitors, and these packs were only sent to those not already known to be Traitors. Which amounts to "Just the Loyalists." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281501-irony-of-space-wolves-of-30k-and-40k/#findComment-3487283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 On the topic of "Watch-packs," I got the impression that they are an effect of the Heresy, after some Legions and Lord Primarchs are already traitors, and these packs were only sent to those not already known to be Traitors. Which amounts to "Just the Loyalists." The first Watch-Pack encountered in the novels is with the BA at Signus Prime, which is definitely before everyone finds out about Horus, not sure when it is in relation to the Drop site Massacre though. My first thought was that they were sent to every Legion either after Nikaea or after Russ has been ordered to Prospero. The second would make sense as it would explain why Watch-Packs haven't been seen with other Legions yet. Some turn up in Unremembered Empire as well though I don't know which Legion they were on their way to. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281501-irony-of-space-wolves-of-30k-and-40k/#findComment-3487640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Aye, the second does make more sense. I had forgotten the timeline for Fear to Tread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281501-irony-of-space-wolves-of-30k-and-40k/#findComment-3487651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
no I'm alpharius Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Watch Pack turns up to Word Bearers. Gets fed to gibbering monstrosity. Story ends. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281501-irony-of-space-wolves-of-30k-and-40k/#findComment-3487655 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonerhino Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 One of the ironies is that while the Space Wolves packs were being sent to observe the legions under Sigilite's order, 40k Space Wolves and Inquisition (founded by Sigilite himself) had an uneasy relationship especially the Months of Shame. Didnt the Bjorn tell the kids that once upon a time, they were tirelessly and dutiful to performing for pseudo Inquisition ? Perhaps linked to their self-appointed or perceived role as executioners( but even Sigilite acknowledged Space Wolves role as executioner in Scars), Space Wolves packs were being sent to watch other Legions (Ultramarines, Blood Angels, etc), However, an off -topic issue is this, do we have Space Wolves packs in other Traitor Legions? On your off topic subject. I would love to see someone write about Wolves sent to watch say Horus. And be convinced to rebel too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281501-irony-of-space-wolves-of-30k-and-40k/#findComment-3487668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 On the topic of "Watch-packs," I got the impression that they are an effect of the Heresy, after some Legions and Lord Primarchs are already traitors, and these packs were only sent to those not already known to be Traitors. Which amounts to "Just the Loyalists." The first Watch-Pack encountered in the novels is with the BA at Signus Prime, which is definitely before everyone finds out about Horus, not sure when it is in relation to the Drop site Massacre though. My first thought was that they were sent to every Legion either after Nikaea or after Russ has been ordered to Prospero. The second would make sense as it would explain why Watch-Packs haven't been seen with other Legions yet. Some turn up in Unremembered Empire as well though I don't know which Legion they were on their way to. The problem with Fear to Tread is that it is concurrent to Calth and the Birth of the Ruinstorm, and even goes a little beyond it, such as Erebus losing his face after his almighty smackdown from Khârn. In Unremembered Empire, the Wolves were on their way to Ultramar for Guilliman, but were caught in the Ruinstorm itself, and didn't emerge for two years, realspace time. Everything actually points to the watch-packs at the earliest being sent out just at the onset of the Heresy, and after Istvaan V at the latest. As far as no one in Fear to Tread being aware of Istvaan V, neither were the Ultramarines at Calth until a year later and they weren't trapped in a single star system for a year like the Blood Angels were. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281501-irony-of-space-wolves-of-30k-and-40k/#findComment-3487674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonerhino Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I'll have to recheck Fear to Tread but I don't remember the Wolves knowing about Istvaan V. Just Prospero. Edit: There is also a quote from Scars that suggest a turning point for the Wolves. With their loyalties being only to the Emperor and not someone who is speaking for him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281501-irony-of-space-wolves-of-30k-and-40k/#findComment-3487680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Hm, that quote goes a long way to showing how they become their 40k self, then. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281501-irony-of-space-wolves-of-30k-and-40k/#findComment-3487686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I wouldn't blame the Wolves in Fear to Tread for not knowing about Istvaan V. The Ultramarines didn't know either until the XVII dropped a ship on their heads. Although IIRC, the Word Bearers were aware of Istvaan V in Fear to Tread. Now, I'm not saying that the Wolves were necessarily sent out because of Istvaan V, just that the timing was at the very least from somewhere around Istvaan III to Istvaan V at the earliest, and pre-(or possibly even concurrent to)Calth at the latest. Although that "convenient" timing does kind of make the explanation weird for the watch-packs as it could really come down to the personal interpretation of the author at that point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281501-irony-of-space-wolves-of-30k-and-40k/#findComment-3487694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonerhino Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I believe that the Word Bearers knew of Istvaan V and maybe even the attack on Calth. But they are in the know much more then the rest of the IoM. I would put the Watch Packs being sent out pre Prospero but their travel times overlapped with the other events. But before Istvaan III becomes known. Otherwise why send the Blood Angels to Signas Prime when their Legion would have been good to have at Istvaan V. Unless Dorn could not get the message to them. But I hate "The Warp did it". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281501-irony-of-space-wolves-of-30k-and-40k/#findComment-3487698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Well, Peospero was something like a year before Istvaan III according to how the timeline is presented in A Thousand Sons, as Magnus blew up Terra roughly two months after Horus was on his deathbed on Davin, and then the razing happened something like 2-4 months after that. At least, that's my guesstimation based on how things were presented. So there is actually time for the watch-packs to be sent out post-Prospero and pre-Istvaan V, as Istvaan III wasn't even known about until the Eisenstein made it to Terra. And IIRC, Signus was originally supposed to be a conversion attempt, as demonstrated by Erebus' actions in Betrayer and also in fear to Tread, If, I recall correctly. But partway through the novel(but after his talk with Lorgar in Betrayer), Horus changed his mind and wanted Sanguinius killed, as he felt he might be eclipsed as the premiere Champion of Chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281501-irony-of-space-wolves-of-30k-and-40k/#findComment-3487712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Týr Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 This idea the HH writers have that it will be awesome to have wolves running around playing "primarch executioners" is a really bad decision IMO. It does nothing good for the wolves background. It makes no sense in any way and never will. I never liked the wolves being executioners as in "we are better than everyone else and we are here to cut your head off". I liked it a bit in the interpretation that they were the ones you could always count upon to do a job no matter the cost for them. This is pretty much me when I realised that somehow the HH writers had chosen to go for the "wolves are there to kill everyone else because that's their thing". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281501-irony-of-space-wolves-of-30k-and-40k/#findComment-3487718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonerhino Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 The problem with a post Prospero leave date is that it requires comunication between Russ and Malcador. Which as of Deliverence Lost (post Istvaan V) had not occured. Now I would not put it passed Malcador to forge Russ' seal and just not tell the Watch packs. But that does not explain away why the Watch pack would be sent without recalling the Blood Angel too. When the order to join the Angel's court was given. The Blood Angel's destination was known as was their stated mission. Which means that it has to be some time after the Wolves are being sent to prospero and Istvaan III become known. The Eisenstien could be trapped in real space waiting to be saved by Dorn at the time. Or even in transit to Terra with Dorn. Just the information had not reached Malcador yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281501-irony-of-space-wolves-of-30k-and-40k/#findComment-3487723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 The problem with a post Prospero leave date is that it requires comunication between Russ and Malcador. Which as of Deliverence Lost (post Istvaan V) had not occured. Now I would not put it passed Malcador to forge Russ' seal and just not tell the Watch packs. But that does not explain away why the Watch pack would be sent without recalling the Blood Angel too. When the order to join the Angel's court was given. The Blood Angel's destination was known as was their stated mission. Which means that it has to be some time after the Wolves are being sent to prospero and Istvaan III become known. The Eisenstien could be trapped in real space waiting to be saved by Dorn at the time. Or even in transit to Terra with Dorn. Just the information had not reached Malcador yet. Exactly. Pre-Prospero, there is no justification. You send those out, they're just as likely to be killed or ignored as where the Thousand Sons or the Word Bearer Chaplains that were sent out to enforce the Edict. Post-Prospero, or even if the Watch-Packs were sent out at the same time as the main force left for Prospero, has justification and can be handled a number of ways up until the discovery of Istvaan III, which wasn't long before Istvaan V, but before the Blood Angels were trapped in the Signus Cluster, as no one could leave or enter after that point until the end of the novel. I think that sounds better in my head than typed out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281501-irony-of-space-wolves-of-30k-and-40k/#findComment-3487727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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