Wade Garrett Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 When were the Word Bearers one of the smallest Legions? When the Emperor delivers the rebuke in TFH he states they are the largest Legion barring the Ultramarimes, yet they've conquered the least. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281582-word-bearers-where-are-we-now/page/3/#findComment-3493325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 Yes, good call out actually, I am not sure where I mixed that up, but its pointed out plainly at the start of TFH. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281582-word-bearers-where-are-we-now/page/3/#findComment-3493326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Must have missed that bit. I thought their second-to-one size was post-Monarchia, and in preparation of their Heresy. No idea on their prior size, though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281582-word-bearers-where-are-we-now/page/3/#findComment-3493328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 Yeah it's mentioned early, I was of the same opinion, but I really dont know why either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281582-word-bearers-where-are-we-now/page/3/#findComment-3493330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Hey, just found out from a friend. According to page 143 of Massacre, the Word Bearers began recruiting from every world they conquered so they could rival the Ultramarines in terms of disposition. So for the Purge to affect all non-Colchisians, would have been like shooting themselves in the foot. And the exact wording of page 141(according to what my friend told me) is "First, it seems likely that the Word Bearers' renewed energy in the Great Crusade was a cover for its rapid growth in size, as well as the seeding of its new corrupting creed onto worlds. It must have been during this time that the Legion was cleansed of dissent. The last of the old Iconoclasts, the few Terrans must have been put quietly to the sword." See how it is shown in the form of conjecture, not fact? So even Forgeworld is leaving behind wiggle room if you feel like bending it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281582-word-bearers-where-are-we-now/page/3/#findComment-3500338 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Traben Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Here's some interesting stuff about the Terran Word Bearers from Massacre page 137. ''From its earliest days, the XVIIth stood apart from their brother Legions in their duty and outlook. While all the Legiones Astartes fought with utter devotion, the warriors of the XVIIth carried with them an air of zealotry. Recruited from the sons of exterminated foes, they were trained and raised to know the crimes of their forebears and the price of forgiveness. While others went to war with righteousness, the XVIIth fought with the cold fury that only the condemned and redeemed can know.'' Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281582-word-bearers-where-are-we-now/page/3/#findComment-3500706 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 What's the saying.. "Converts are always more zealous than those born into a creed." Fits the sons of Aurelian quite well, I think. Also, could the Terrans have been raised from the children of the various faiths the Emperor purged on Terra? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281582-word-bearers-where-are-we-now/page/3/#findComment-3500760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Traben Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 It's possible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281582-word-bearers-where-are-we-now/page/3/#findComment-3501456 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolandTHTG Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Also explains why the WB would need to kill all/most of the Terrans. They would be most tied to the Emperor's vision, and the least likely to convert to the new faith. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281582-word-bearers-where-are-we-now/page/3/#findComment-3501633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 I find that difficult to believe after the reprimand, personally. Unless these Terran's where just going along with Lorgar for some reason, he certainly was not hiding his belief at that point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281582-word-bearers-where-are-we-now/page/3/#findComment-3501638 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazguire Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Terran Word Bearers, after Monarchia, I feel would not have been so eager to be involved with the Emperor to be honest. The Terrans that were killed off by the Legion would have been killed due to racial supremacy reasons, I believe, and that they were an active reminder of the Emperor in the Legion, with or without meaning to be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281582-word-bearers-where-are-we-now/page/3/#findComment-3501679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Except that "racial supremacy" would mean killing everyone who wasn't Colchisian. According to Forgeworld, if the XVII had killed everyone who wasn't Colchisian, they would not have been able to field the numbers they did. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281582-word-bearers-where-are-we-now/page/3/#findComment-3501691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Massacre also words it as the Terrans, all the old Iconoclasts. Makes it sound like they did go by ideals, it just happens that the unwanted ideal was so heavily dominated by one group that they defined each other. The Word Bearers expunged those who would not stand with them, who would not agree with their new path. Those were the Terrans, but it was their ideals, not their origins, that made them into targets. And that is understandable. Where else are you going to look for the old Iconoclasts, the Imperial Heralds, the die hards for the atheistic Imperial creed? Definitely not Colchis, or the worlds they recruited from post-Monarchia. That pretty much leaves Terrans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281582-word-bearers-where-are-we-now/page/3/#findComment-3501700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 Yeah I can roll with that. FW has put a nail in the 'Colchis only' Word Bearers, but left the door open to killing off the Terrans. I'm re-reading the sections now actually. I figure its something like. 0. Emperor forms the Imperial Heralds, 100% atheistic, they are there as iconoclast's, and buy in 100% to the Emperor's secular galaxy view. 1. Off to space, we find Lorgar. He reaffirms that what OTHERS believe is false, and that THEIR gods are not real, but holds his tongue when it comes to the Divinity of the Emperor. 2. Lorgar begins to introduce ceremony and ritual into the practices of the Imperial Heralds. 3. Lorgar pushes a sense of purpose, of belief being a driving factor in what they are fighting for. 4. The Imperial Heralds where themselves fanatical in their belief. That fanaticism is actually one of the strongest identifiers of the Legion, and Lorgar pushed over decades to shift that belief from the Emperor's original plan, to one of the Emperor as God. 5. Attrition and recruiting (again as we know it now was from a wide range of planets) diluted the original Terran belief structure even further. 6. Word Bearers are born after 5 finally takes its toll, and then they begin to slow their conquests, and build up the faith in the Emperor, leading to the story as we know it, Monarchia, and so on. Then we have "The last of the old Iconoclasts, the few Terrans, and those who would not embrace the new faith must have been put quietly to the sword." These are all distinct elements, and it says they 'must have been...' not that they where, categorically, killed off. Likely? Yes. Possible some survived? Yes. :] Either way, I'm happy with the creation story and where we are, I just wish they had not jumped so quickly in the books to 'I am evil, because.' like we saw in Mark of Calth... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281582-word-bearers-where-are-we-now/page/3/#findComment-3501721 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I really wish Anthony Reynolds would leave the XVII alone, perhaps only writing Loyalists? The White Consuls were a unique and interesting Chapter, even if they're difficult to describe without sounding like "Ultramarines, but mixed with elements of the Ultramarines." The Word Bearers in the same novel, though...yecch! "Well Marduk, you managed to get thousands of Word Bearers, Titans and warships destroyed, lost the Necron Plot MacGuffin, and ran away from the pathetic sons of Guilliman. I declare you awesome and am promoting you to the Dark Council!" "Yaaay!" "Also, Abaddon sucks." "Yaaaaaay again!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281582-word-bearers-where-are-we-now/page/3/#findComment-3501725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 The White Consuls are Ultramarines though. Same gene-seed, same Primarch, apparently the same teachings. Yeah. Cormac, but look again at Forgeworld and how it says it. "First, it seems likely that the Word Bearers' renewed energy in the Great Crusade was a cover for its rapid growth in size, as well as the seeding of its new corrupting creed onto worlds. It must have been during this time that the Legion was cleansed of dissent. The last of the old Iconoclasts, the few Terrans must have been put quietly to the sword." The tone is guessing when the purge happened(slowly over 40 years) as well as guessing who it happened to. The way I look at it, people from these groups were purged, but not the entirety of each group was purged. The tone of the entire passage is speculative and it's something we need to keep in mind as it sets the context for the line. As pointed out with Xaphen, not all of the Terrans were purged. And also pointed out with Xaphen, not all of the Terrans would have been resistant to the Word. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281582-word-bearers-where-are-we-now/page/3/#findComment-3501770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 That's what I was arguing for, Kol. Their ideals made them a target, not their origin. One implies possible survivors, the other doesn't. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281582-word-bearers-where-are-we-now/page/3/#findComment-3502042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 .......... I have a habit of misreading others' posts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281582-word-bearers-where-are-we-now/page/3/#findComment-3502051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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