TheDarkOne Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 First of all, I haven't played in a few months, life catches up to you sometimes. My Chaos isn't ready yet, I have a bunch of painting to do, but before i embark on that, I want to have a list to work towards. I know that the meta has changed since I won a big tournament last September with my Grey knights (5th ed army du choix). That said, I am indeed looking for a very competitive build, if it is at all possible from our book... From what I can see, it looks like the armies that will give me a hard time now are Eldar and Tau, and potentially Space marines. So far all i have painted for my CSM is 26 chaos space marines, 4 with plasmaguns, 2 aspiring champions, for 2 squads of 13, and 10 cultists. I have the following models ready to go, primed brown: Biker Lord Huron Jugger Lord Sorcerer on foot 14 more CSMs with CCW Bolt pistol, aspiring champion and 2 meltaguns 3x Rhinos 40+ cultists 6 bikers, 2x melta/plasma magnetized gun arms. 2 helldrakes (Definitely looking forward to painting these guys) 6 Obliterators 5 havocs 4x autocannons, and the bits to make another identical squad. I have a bunch more marine bodies, so I can build more marines, but I feel like thats not going to be the answer to the metagame. I have a couple of demon princes that I can use too, but need to be painted. The old 1850 list I was playing last October with my CSM was based on huron, 2 helldrakes, all my assembled marines infiltrating, and oblits and havocs, plus the jugger lord joined to a unit rampaging forward. it did pretty well, but i fear with the proliferation of rending shooting from eldar, and the massed fire from tau, that infantry walking across the board just ain't going to cut it anymore - infiltrate or no... So I've turned to alliances.... I've considered building an allied force with Guard, chimeras and rhinos, vendetta manticore and helldrake, huron and 1 big squad of marines outflank, 2 vet squads, 1 blob squad, some lascannons... its ok, but nothing special... pretty effective and probably my go to... but again, I'm not sure that it would be effective enough. I've considered building chaos+demons, but that seems to be just an excuse to bring a black mace wielding demon prince and helldrake to an already sound demons flying circus... I've toyed with the idea of a slaanesh herald on a steed with aetherblades and locus of beguilement with 20 slaanesh furies supported by 20 demonettes, and a soul grinder, allied into huron with 2 12 man squads of plasma toting marines, 4 oblits, 2 helldrakes... but that's a lot of painting and I'm again not sure how effective it will be to try to horde vs the firepower in the new meta. And the last option I have (running out of painted allied armies), is to ally in Orks, bring a warboss on a bike, in a squad of 30 shoota boys, 15 lootas... and massed marines/helldrakes from chaos, probably a black mace prince and juggerlord to push the envelope of assault alpha strike, but again... too much shooty = sadface csm/orks... So, what has the B&C community been seeing as effective CSM armies (obviously including alliances)? Just looking for some advice before i start painting.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281617-building-a-list-for-the-new-meta-looking-for-advice/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornywingythingy Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Tbh, csm haven't been doing too well the last few months, at least on the uk tournie scene, I suspect there will be a swing in the success of csm due to the influx of marine armies, but that's just the heldrake, I'm playing around with ideas for a csm/bl list with spawn and double baledrake, but I'm not entirely convinced. Demons is the only ally being seen much with csm atm, but demons work better than csm. Not sure where you are based, but I have posted two threads on here covering the results of the first two heats of the UK GT season, check them out for an overview of just why heldrakes have flooded ebay. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281617-building-a-list-for-the-new-meta-looking-for-advice/#findComment-3489416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkOne Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 So, you're suggesting that the armies that come to the table now can deal with the helldrakes more easily? or that people are just not bringing their CSM to the table at all anymore...? Based in Toronto Canada, pretty broad meta, strong necrons previously, now most of the strong lists are eldar/tau... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281617-building-a-list-for-the-new-meta-looking-for-advice/#findComment-3489421 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornywingythingy Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 More a lack of valid targets, most of the eldar over here are meched up, with wraithknights, so its little good vs them, and tau can take drakes down too easy with riptides. But white scar gravgun spam is a good counter to both those, so I suspect heldrakes will do better because of a lack of counters and more prey armies.... I also expect more demon cav builds and a resurgence of guard as a possibility. Ocourse its all just guessing based upon grav guns, but its what I think will happen. Of course everything is crap vs screamer council and jetseer council, but then you target the weak scoring, and try to tie up the deathstar (hence why I'm thinking nurgle spawn, a great tarpit) *edit for additional thoughts* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281617-building-a-list-for-the-new-meta-looking-for-advice/#findComment-3489478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Nids are good against demons , but they would require a very specific player and knowladge of local meta . As what do 2 drakes 3-4x10cultists 2x3 oblits 5xhavocks with 4 AC nurgle lord on a bike 5 bikers More or less then goldfish chaos build . Should start testing with that , then modify. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281617-building-a-list-for-the-new-meta-looking-for-advice/#findComment-3489503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkOne Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 Something like this then with my guard: Chaos Lord: Chaos bike; Mark of Nurgle; The Black Mace; sigil of corruption. 17010 Chaos Cultists 5010 Chaos Cultists 50Heldrake 170Heldrake 1705 Chaos Bikers: Chaos Biker Champion (melta bombs); 2× meltagun. 1355 Havocs: 4× autocannon. 1152 Obliterators: Mark of Nurgle. 1522 Obliterators: Mark of Nurgle. 152Company Command Squad: Astropath; Veteran Weapons Team (lascannon). 100Platoon Command Squad: 4× flamer. 50• Infantry Squad: Sergeant; Commissar; Heavy Weapons Team (lascannon). 105• Infantry Squad: Sergeant; Heavy Weapons Team (lascannon). 70• Infantry Squad: Sergeant; Heavy Weapons Team (lascannon). 701 Vendetta Gunship 130Manticore Rocket Launcher 1601,849 points Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281617-building-a-list-for-the-new-meta-looking-for-advice/#findComment-3490601 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 For a list like this I would personaly drop the vendetta and add a landing pad. Yes the vendetta is very cost effective , it is a flyer in an edition where flyers are good , but the landing pad would have huge utility for your force . the oblits , havocks the blob or even the manticor would work a lot better. Imo worth losing the 3 flying lascannons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281617-building-a-list-for-the-new-meta-looking-for-advice/#findComment-3490623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornywingythingy Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Or lose the havocs for it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281617-building-a-list-for-the-new-meta-looking-for-advice/#findComment-3490632 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkOne Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 neat idea, the tourney i'm going to doesn't allow the pad... also most tourneys I've been to recently seem to say that all fortifications need to be 3" away form existing terrian, making pad placement difficult... could drop vendetta and havocs for more oblits! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281617-building-a-list-for-the-new-meta-looking-for-advice/#findComment-3490641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I would like to have another melta unit in case you run in to DA or IG av13/14 builds then . vets probably . But there couldbe huge problems with scoring with this list . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281617-building-a-list-for-the-new-meta-looking-for-advice/#findComment-3490686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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