Rhodric Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 So, new Dark Angel player here and I just stumbled upon something so obvious, it hurts. I fell in love with DA fluff a while back, but recently decided to follow through on a Ravenwing force, which is nearing completion. I've read through the Codex a dozen times and would always wonder "what ever happened to Lion El'Johnson?". I believe I've read a few of the DA 40k books over the last year or so and and would always wonder the same thing, until yesterday. I was looking through the Codex last evening and stumbled upon a completely new passage! I have no clue how I missed this! I had no idea El'Johnson is still alive, sleeping, completely healed and ready to kick Chaos arse!!! It was one of the coolest thing I've read in ages, pathetic, but still exciting. haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HsojVvad Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Yeah, I thought that was pretty cool when I read it as well. Pretty sad, to get so excited that something advanced in 20 years of fluff from GW. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aradiel Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Well, i have played DA for over 15 years now and that has always been the situation with the lion. The diference in that text is that the lion's wounds are healed, while in the old fluff they were healing. GW fluff evolving. Will wonders ever cease? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosRising Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Speaking of fluffy wonders, maybe GW will finally fix the broken millennial clock so that it reads 001M42...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhodric Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 Any idea if Forge World will be doing some of the other Primarchs, like the Lion? I'd gobble that up in a second! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotsmasha Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Any idea if Forge World will be doing some of the other Primarchs, like the Lion? I'd gobble that up in a second! FW will be doing all of the Primarch at 4-5 per year, incl the Emperor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosRising Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 The whole primarch thing cracks me up because way back when White Dwarf had its "Echoes from the Warp" column with "Dirty Steve" someone once asked if there would ever be primarchs in 40k and the answer was a resounding "no." If only Dirty had known..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flake Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 What will be the Lion's special power? Randomly siding with your opponent, scoring d3 VP for every one of your own units he kills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosRising Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Maybe they'll make the Lion bipolar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternal Warrior Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I'm excited for the Lion model and for the dark angel units that forgeworld releases. Maybe some inner circle knights. They will be glorious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TA]Typher Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 What will be the Lion's special power? Randomly siding with your opponent, scoring d3 VP for every one of your own units he kills? Ugh.... You should read the HH books. I dunno why people get stuck on that rumor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosRising Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 The main problem (I find) is a lack of consistency between the HH fluff that's been written in the last few years and the HH fluff that was written in the early years. Not saying there can't be different angles, but there appear to be way too many contradictions on any given topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flake Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 What will be the Lion's special power? Randomly siding with your opponent, scoring d3 VP for every one of your own units he kills? Ugh.... You should read the HH books. I dunno why people get stuck on that rumor. Because it's always seemed pretty legit. Either the Lion was playing both sides or he wasn't nearly the fast striking, strategic planner his rep said he was. But I don't want to pull the conversation off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosRising Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 *zip* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 The whole primarch thing cracks me up because way back when White Dwarf had its "Echoes from the Warp" column with "Dirty Steve" someone once asked if there would ever be primarchs in 40k and the answer was a resounding "no." If only Dirty had known..... There won't be primarchs in GW...just in FW...so Steve is still half right...I love the hobbying idea of being able to collect the primarchs, but they definitely do not belong in the tabletop game. I mean, they would have to be about 3000 points apiece, killier and harder to kill than a whole legion of titans, and not allowed in games of fewer than 50,000 points per side. Oh, and you have to field them with at least two full battle companies of their own legion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJD Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Points and abilities in the game don't really match the fluff if it did a single tactical squad would cost about 2k points. It has to be this way to allow some balance. I believe primarchs are around the 300 to 500 point mark in 30k though I admit I have no idea how these point compare to 40k. That said I still doubt we will get them in 40k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 The Lion has always been my favourite Primarch. There's a line in The Lion by Gav Thorpe where he says It has fallen to me to be the scale on which history is balancedAs soon as I read that I thought 'Yeah, you can keep your Guillimans and your Angrons, our Primarch rocks!' Sad and nerdy? Yes, but who cares! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Maybe they'll make the Lion bipolar.Eh, any primarch would be bipolar with that many writers writing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Each of the Primarchs were designed to be both consummate, almost sociopathic killers AND the greatest of diplomats, a skill requiring empathy and understanding. Some might say they are already a little bipolar by their very nature...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 What will be the Lion's special power? Randomly siding with your opponent, scoring d3 VP for every one of your own units he kills? Ugh.... You should read the HH books. I dunno why people get stuck on that rumor. Because it's always seemed pretty legit. Either the Lion was playing both sides or he wasn't nearly the fast striking, strategic planner his rep said he was. But I don't want to pull the conversation off topic. It is not legit at all. Horus very much purposely sent both Roboutte and Lion, the two best tacticians among the other Primarchs, to the arse ends of the galaxy before unleashing his treachery. This was known, what, nearly two decades before Angels of Darkness and the HH books began to be released? People just don't seem to pay enough attention to this though, instead going with the mutterings of the heretical Astellan, who was spoon fed such lines by Luther (who is factually known to be a complete and utter heretic). Both Roboutte and Lion were also purposely delayed by the powers/forces of Chaos in their return to keep them out of the action for as long as possible, which is touched upon in various HH stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InstantKarma Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 What will be the Lion's special power? Randomly siding with your opponent, scoring d3 VP for every one of your own units he kills?Ugh.... You should read the HH books. I dunno why people get stuck on that rumor. Because it's always seemed pretty legit. Either the Lion was playing both sides or he wasn't nearly the fast striking, strategic planner his rep said he was. But I don't want to pull the conversation off topic. Careful man, theres a dude in white robes and black armor behind your desk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 It is not legit at all. Horus very much purposely sent both Roboutte and Lion, the two best tacticians among the other Primarchs, to the arse ends of the galaxy before unleashing his treachery. This was known, what, nearly two decades before Angels of Darkness and the HH books began to be released? People just don't seem to pay enough attention to this though, instead going with the mutterings of the heretical Astellan, who was spoon fed such lines by Luther (who is factually known to be a complete and utter heretic). Both Roboutte and Lion were also purposely delayed by the powers/forces of Chaos in their return to keep them out of the action for as long as possible, which is touched upon in various HH stories.Agreed! Gav Thorpe himself went on record and said that the reader shouldn't simply believe what Astelan is saying as he deliberately wrote him in the role of Unreliable Narrator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreliable_narrator). Yet still people persist in reading Angels of Darkness without any sort of filter, as if it were some sort of gospel truth. The purpose of the Astelan character was to cast doubt on whether the Dark Angels Chaplains were doing the right thing, to highlight the mental struggle taking place in every Chaplain to keep the faith in the face of heresy couched in half-truths and uncertainty. It wasn't to suddenly turn the First Legion into traitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 And at the end it surely did mess with Boreas because he looked around at facts that he was not aware of that the Apoth and Techie had that would have factored into his decision to: "WAAAGGHH! CYPHER, GET EM!" and leave the keep unattended. I am waiting to see what Gav does with the "Ravenwing" trilogy to see if the Chapter can learn from Boreas but right now it seems he is to be sidelined and ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flake Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 The Lion, for being a celebrated tactician and known to be insanely paranoid, did a whole lot of trusting Horus when it would have been more in character to doubt and investigate. And that's what I find interesting about the Dark Angels: That chance that maybe they betrayed the Imperium (briefly) and never even realized it. I like the secrets, the unknown history, and the ever present promise that only three people actually know what happened (Luther, The Lion, and The Emperor). I'm not disparaging the Lion by any stretch of the imagination and I certainly don't think he fell to Chaos. But I'd rather think of him as a shrewd and calculating figure than as a fool who let himself get sidelined in the middle of the most important event in history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 From "The Lion" short in "The Primarchs" anthology... The Lion was kinda funny with who he trusted... After Perturbo took the freely offered siege engines, the Lion pretty much didnt trust anybody. Death Guard, Iron Fists and Ultras are specifically mentioned. If anything he was just late to the party like most of the Loyalist primarchs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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