*Furyou Miko Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Fib, WD codex was 13 points each. We're back down to C:WH points now, plus grenades. I like 20-strong squads because they scythe through elite units... but in all honesty, you'd be better off with two squads, if the two squads weren't more expensive (which they no longer are!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281642-why-no-20-sisters-squad/page/2/#findComment-3490535 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Are you sure? I just checked ... the WD codex additional model cost is the same as the new per model costs shown on the facebook page. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281642-why-no-20-sisters-squad/page/2/#findComment-3490546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RookBartly Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 A ten girl squad that is equal to the old one is now 5 points more expensive. They don't come with the 'Veteran Sister Superior' and have to pay points to bring her up to the same stats as the old Sister Superior that came automaticly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281642-why-no-20-sisters-squad/page/2/#findComment-3490575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAR Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Wonder what they are doing for the dominions now Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281642-why-no-20-sisters-squad/page/2/#findComment-3490576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 It looks like we will be getting 2 special weapons in a 5 woman squad now! Squad size will be 5 to 20. Still 12 points each. 120 points for a squad of 10 or 130 points for 9 Sisters and a Veteran Superior now. It will certianly help with fielding lots of troops in a double FOC game. Yeah, it's good news! Now it's actually good that I have 2 flamers and 2 meltas, so I can make two squads! Although it seems I'll now be short a Superior unless I use the Canoness as one, or one of the regular Sisters. I guess the Grenade Girl makes for as good a candidate as any. But also means I'll one more combi short! Also makes BT+SoB shooty list combos true "MSU" spam. Currently using this new unit entry I'd have the models for two 6-model troops with 2 special weapons each and one 7-model heavy bolter retributor squad. One additional model to one squad if using the Canoness as a Superior. Potentially it means I may need to buy not just one but two Immolators now, though - damn it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281642-why-no-20-sisters-squad/page/2/#findComment-3490609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Wonder what they are doing for the dominions now Hopefully they will go back to 4 specials in a squad of 5 like they were; it's how every other codex out there runs its special weapon squad. It is even how Crudace ran them in the battle report just after he wrote the rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281642-why-no-20-sisters-squad/page/2/#findComment-3490664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAR Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 That's what I'm hoping for Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281642-why-no-20-sisters-squad/page/2/#findComment-3490698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Hopefully they will go back to 4 specials in a squad of 5 like they were; it's how every other codex out there runs its special weapon squad. It is even how Crudace ran them in the battle report just after he wrote the rules. It'd be make sense to do something to them, certainly. As it is, some of the Sisters units seem quite redundant by just looking at them. Dominions get Scout over Battle Sisters, but lose scoring. Also, different AoF, of course. Similarly with Celestians... a melee AoF for a unit without melee weapons or even a second attack, yet being 2 points costlier per model? Meh. Shooty options are the same as they now will be for Battle Sisters and same as Dominions are now as well. I think that especially now with 5-man squads unless they do something to those two units I don't see that much point in taking them over just taking more Battle Sisters. Well, other than wanting more squads in an allied detachment after filling out the two troop slots, I suppose. As for 4 special weapons? Seems that'd be more in line with Celestians? Or I guess they could do it to both. Who knows. And then there's of course the Command Squad. First of all, the unit is expensive. Then it has the Dialogus who I consider pretty much a waste of space and points (plus the model gives me nightmares, it's creepier than any demon or such ever will be). Hospitaler of course brings FNP to the table, but like the Dialogus doesn't even have a second weapon nor any upgrade options. All three other members can get a weapon upgrade and the Blessed Banner isn't all that expensive, but none of that helps overcome the waaaay too high initial price of the squad - I really don't know what they were thinking. So there's hoping it'll get significantly lowered. Even if it is, the lack of proper shooting options for the two special models is a pain. And incidentally they currently only have 1 CC attack while the other three have 2, but with no melee weapon options that doesn't help all that much either. Gotta say though that the topic had a great timing in that now 20-model squads will be even less common than before! Now with the 5-model Battle Sister Squads I could even run Sisters as the primary detachment in a 500-point game or with some IG allies perhaps... though of course the IG could just as well be the primary detachment too. At least unless I use an Exorcist (well, more a Whirlwind proxy for one until a fully plastic Exorcist is released) together with the Retributors! Overall this opens up new options, which is always nice. EDIT: Oh! Oh! And being the primary detachment would allow using Canoness and Celestine at the same time! :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281642-why-no-20-sisters-squad/page/2/#findComment-3490713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Celestians do have a second attack. They're identical to the ones in the Command Squad. Strange. My book has Sisters and Retris as 13 ppm, and Dominions as 14 ppm... Hmm... I know the perfect Act of Faith for celestians! Guardians of the Holy: This Act of Faith is used in the Movement phase. The Celestian squad is Scoring until the start of the next turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281642-why-no-20-sisters-squad/page/2/#findComment-3490764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigrid Of Asgaror Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Now that would be interesting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281642-why-no-20-sisters-squad/page/2/#findComment-3490765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Celestians do have a second attack. They're identical to the ones in the Command Squad.Whoops! So it is. Not sure what stat I was looking at at the time. Well, that does make them slightly better than Battle Sisters in combat efficiency, but still not worth losing Scoring over, I think. Well, I suppose we'll know what they have in store for the other units in a bit over a week at the latest! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281642-why-no-20-sisters-squad/page/2/#findComment-3490781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I've run 20 man squads of CSM, and based on that experience think 20 woman SoB squads could be good. The only thing that's kept me from trying it so far is the actual cost of the figures. I've got a trade on the way that will more than double my Sisters figures, so I will soon experiment with giant mobs of bolter Sisters, and I am giddy about it! About those 20 CSM, let me just say that holding 40 dice in your hands and staring down the enemy while you roll them is something that we shouldn't leave to the non-PA folks, if only to roll it out once in a while for the novelty. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281642-why-no-20-sisters-squad/page/2/#findComment-3490845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Strange. My book has Sisters and Retris as 13 ppm, and Dominions as 14 ppm... Hmm. Was there some difference between the in US and UK copies? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281642-why-no-20-sisters-squad/page/2/#findComment-3490948 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Currently Sisters are 12ppm except the superior who is 22pm (which often makes people think the Sisters are instead 13ppm, not sure if that's the case here - seems unlikely?). Dominions are 12ppm with Superior strangely being 18 and similarly Retris are 12ppm with a 17p Superior. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281642-why-no-20-sisters-squad/page/2/#findComment-3490983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Strange. My book has Sisters and Retris as 13 ppm, and Dominions as 14 ppm... Hmm. Was there some difference between the in US and UK copies? I am 99.9% positive that this picture is a fragment from a scan of the 2012 WD edition. I'm looking at my copy, and it looks exactly like it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281642-why-no-20-sisters-squad/page/2/#findComment-3491022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Strange. My book has Sisters and Retris as 13 ppm, and Dominions as 14 ppm...Hmm. Was there some difference between the in US and UK copies? Dunno, but my UK version says 12ppm as well. Did I miss a FAQ somewhere? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281642-why-no-20-sisters-squad/page/2/#findComment-3491190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewm9 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Strange. My book has Sisters and Retris as 13 ppm, and Dominions as 14 ppm...Hmm. Was there some difference between the in US and UK copies? Dunno, but my UK version says 12ppm as well.Did I miss a FAQ somewhere? No they were always 12 ppm. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281642-why-no-20-sisters-squad/page/2/#findComment-3491359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Meh. It wont matter any more in just over a week. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281642-why-no-20-sisters-squad/page/2/#findComment-3491365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 just checked, and C:WH had Sisters at 11 ppm, so I was getting confused, lol. Dominions are 13ppm in the WDDex though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281642-why-no-20-sisters-squad/page/2/#findComment-3491567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmLancel Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Yeah, there was one squad which inexplicably had a +1 point cost per unit, even though the stat line was the same. I guess the added options were enough for it. We're still at +1 point over Codex: Witchhunters, and the standard Battle Sister squad has few differences over the WDex. We don't know if anything has changed in the background for things like Shield of Faith, but of the immediate and obvious changes the only things are that the VSS is no longer included automatically, she now costs 5 points more, and the Simulacrum costs half what it did (-10 points). Oh, and of course the new 5-sister minimum instead of 10. Also relics are back, yay! As for the topic at hand, 20-sister squads, while awesome, never seemed perfectly useful due to cost and, well, FOC. Why field one squad of 20 Sisters when you could field two squads of ten sisters? For five points you get access to more special/heavy weapons and improved tactical flexibility. Anything more and you're either going to open up a new FOC (and thus have access to yet another 6 squads of Sisters, as in the old Codex anyway there was nothing else for you to use those troop slots on), or you're a crazy person building horde Sisters with little to nothing of anything else. ... And if you ARE that crazy, a 10-sister Retributor squad with no upgrades costs exactly the same as a a troop Battle Sister squad, just with a different Act of Faith. >> So yeah, 90 Sisters without even having to up any past 10-sister squads. The rest of your points you're probably spending on meltas and an HQ. And if you go much further than that, ding, second FOC open. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281642-why-no-20-sisters-squad/page/2/#findComment-3491694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I hope they don't take away our ability to take a 20 strong squad and still get a rhino for them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281642-why-no-20-sisters-squad/page/2/#findComment-3492203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAR Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Dread the preview showed it was 5-20 models and still had access to rhinos and immolaters Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281642-why-no-20-sisters-squad/page/2/#findComment-3492515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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