GrandMagnus Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Hey brothers, two problems: Chaplains have always been my favorite type of space marines and that is why I obviusly want one in my heresy era Ultramarines army. But chaplains are a tough theme in the GC - HH era so what I want to know is: Did they wear skull helmets back then? Black armour? Death motifs, such as bones on their armour? Also, this is by far my favorite GW chaplain: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2380491a_99800101072_ChaplainCroziusPowerfistCFC_873x627.jpg It says he comes in 3 bits, which are they? I cant find any info on the internet. 2nd problem: According to HH: Betrayal, chaplains are armed with the basic wargear of a centurion AND the crozius. Does this mean that in TDA armour he could potentially wield the crozius and a powerfist / lightning claw? Or thoes he exchange the power weapon for the crozius? Thank you for your time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281839-heresy-era-chaplains/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Isn't the skull and bone motif related to the Emperor's state post-Heresy? Legions had Chaplains, but maybe not all of them and few of them were called Chaplains. Ultramarines being Ultramarines, I am sure they had some sort of comparative office. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281839-heresy-era-chaplains/#findComment-3493779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Sure, it's artwork, but it shows a Heresy-Era Chaplain, so we can assume that they had skull helms back then. However, perhaps they only had the skull helm and not all of the other bone decorations that their later brethren seem to be keen on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281839-heresy-era-chaplains/#findComment-3493792 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumah Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 I've always had trouble reconciling Chaplains with the Heresy Era. It was supposed to be the age of enlightenment wherein religion was an outdated and disparaged notion. So what exactly was their purpose then? Also, regardless of their purpose at the time, why use the term "chaplain" which carries with it a very religious connotation. Do they expound upon this in Betrayal at all? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281839-heresy-era-chaplains/#findComment-3493797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Not all Legions called them Chaplains. There are for instance the Wardens of the Blood Angels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281839-heresy-era-chaplains/#findComment-3493801 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 They had chaplains after Nikaea when they were formed to make sure Librarians weren't used. Some already had their own version of Chaplains, like Blood Angels who had Wardens and I think Night Lords had a version to (they were mentioned executing prisoners of war in a story which involved Dorn) others adopted them quickly like Salamanders who were already versed in the Promethean Creed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281839-heresy-era-chaplains/#findComment-3493802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Yeah, not to say 10K years is a long time for a job description to change. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281839-heresy-era-chaplains/#findComment-3493816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotsmasha Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 The three pieces are powerfist arm and pad, back pack, the rest. As for GC Chaplains, unsure of their function prior to Nikea, but it seems post Nikea their primary function was enforcing the disbandment of the Librarius across the Legions. Cheers, Jono Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281839-heresy-era-chaplains/#findComment-3493826 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Pre-Nikea sounds Legion specific, though I am sure there was overlap. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281839-heresy-era-chaplains/#findComment-3493829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMagnus Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 I could imagine chaplains in the Ultramarines beign used to make sure that the battle-brothers followed the legions doctrines, maybe? And later keeping in check the librarians? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281839-heresy-era-chaplains/#findComment-3493910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Sounds like a perfectly logical assumption, all things considered. The Ultramarines do have a pretty heavily martially inclined belief system, I can certainly see the need or desire for officers focused on the perpetuation and support of such beliefs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281839-heresy-era-chaplains/#findComment-3493916 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMagnus Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 Okay, so now theres a fluffy and logical reason for chaplains. Now the problem is the weaponry/armour. The crozius arcanum obviously, its their badge of honour, but what about the rest? I must admit that having bones on ther armour is very un-Ultramarine and doesnt fit with the legion era. The skull helmet might still be acceptable and the black armour too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281839-heresy-era-chaplains/#findComment-3493920 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Perhaps black colored armor? That does appear to be a connecting factor across the board, as much of it that we have so far seen anyways. As far as rules go, though, cannot help you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281839-heresy-era-chaplains/#findComment-3493933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincite Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Dumah, on 13 Oct 2013 - 18:30, said: I've always had trouble reconciling Chaplains with the Heresy Era. It was supposed to be the age of enlightenment wherein religion was an outdated and disparaged notion. So what exactly was their purpose then? Chaplains are the mentors and guides of the Space Marines, as well as their priests. They are a constant throughout a Space Marine's life. When a neophyte is accepted into the chapter, it is his chaplain who indoctrinates and teaches him. When a brother is troubled, it is the chaplain who will hear him out and quench his doubts. And when the apothecary's work is done it is the Chaplain who will honour the dead and give them their last rites. Chaplains are also often associated with the relics and secrets of a chapter. In the 31st Millennium their role would not be so religiously focused, but I imagine they still provide much the same services. Guidance and teaching. Watching. Guarding. Even their battlecries could be much the same. Anaziel, on 13 Oct 2013 - 21:18, said: I must admit that having bones on ther armour is very un-Ultramarine and doesnt fit with the legion era. The skull helmet might still be acceptable and the black armour too. I think seeing a more 'normal' Chaplain would be awesome, and a neat way to tie him into your army. I'd keep the skull mask personally because it's tied so heavily into the common image of a Chaplain. Would they have a Roserius? I haven't read the HH rulebooks, and I can't remember if they occur at any time in the novels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281839-heresy-era-chaplains/#findComment-3493964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Would they have a Roserius? I haven't read the HH rulebooks, and I can't remember if they occur at any time in the novels. No, Crozius, and the Zealot rule. EDIT: The Black armour is also seemingly a later custom, not always present based on TFH. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281839-heresy-era-chaplains/#findComment-3494238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I went bronze armour black trimmings kept it simple and re did a corzius as a ceremonial axe Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281839-heresy-era-chaplains/#findComment-3494251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMagnus Posted October 14, 2013 Author Share Posted October 14, 2013 Well I was thinking either whole black armour or blue armour with black helmet and shoulder pads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281839-heresy-era-chaplains/#findComment-3494740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumah Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I like the blue and black idea. Something to set them apart from their 40K successors and I just think those colors go well together! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281839-heresy-era-chaplains/#findComment-3494848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMagnus Posted October 14, 2013 Author Share Posted October 14, 2013 This guy could be another option, he has a great pose too: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2380481a_99800101069_SMChaplainSkullHelmetCFC_873x627.jpg What I would change though is the head and the left shoulder pad with the skull on (maybe give him a MK II pad and a power fist). Any idea how hard it would be to remove?, the head I mean. And I think his bolt arm is a separate piece, right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281839-heresy-era-chaplains/#findComment-3494882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Perhaps black colored armor? That does appear to be a connecting factor across the board, as much of it that we have so far seen anyways. As far as rules go, though, cannot help you. Think they had black armour with the Dark Angels, at least... Then again, that's rather easy to justify since that's the legion's colour already. I also think I've read a few mentions of skull helmets... think that EC one on Istvaan III had one. Would they have a Roserius? I haven't read the HH rulebooks, and I can't remember if they occur at any time in the novels.The Rosarius is a gift from the Adeptus Ministrorum, aka the Ecclesiarchy. And with it not existing yet, it is unlikely for them to have it. That said, you can give any centurion a refractor shield, which is almost as good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281839-heresy-era-chaplains/#findComment-3494975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 This guy could be another option, he has a great pose too: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2380481a_99800101069_SMChaplainSkullHelmetCFC_873x627.jpg What I would change though is the head and the left shoulder pad with the skull on (maybe give him a MK II pad and a power fist). Any idea how hard it would be to remove?, the head I mean. And I think his bolt arm is a separate piece, right? The skull shoulder is a seperate piece if I recall, if not easy to remove if your not worried about the bolt pistol. I haven't had the time or money to really get into the Legion rules but I do know that Chaplain armor is painted Black in 40k to represent faith in the emperor. This combined with the Rosarius I feel are largely a post heresy addition to their tradition and duties. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281839-heresy-era-chaplains/#findComment-3495006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMagnus Posted October 14, 2013 Author Share Posted October 14, 2013 This guy could be another option, he has a great pose too: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2380481a_99800101069_SMChaplainSkullHelmetCFC_873x627.jpg What I would change though is the head and the left shoulder pad with the skull on (maybe give him a MK II pad and a power fist). Any idea how hard it would be to remove?, the head I mean. And I think his bolt arm is a separate piece, right? The skull shoulder is a seperate piece if I recall, if not easy to remove if your not worried about the bolt pistol. I haven't had the time or money to really get into the Legion rules but I do know that Chaplain armor is painted Black in 40k to represent faith in the emperor. This combined with the Rosarius I feel are largely a post heresy addition to their tradition and duties. And the head any idea if its fixed or a separate piece? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281839-heresy-era-chaplains/#findComment-3495013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 This guy could be another option, he has a great pose too: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2380481a_99800101069_SMChaplainSkullHelmetCFC_873x627.jpg What I would change though is the head and the left shoulder pad with the skull on (maybe give him a MK II pad and a power fist). Any idea how hard it would be to remove?, the head I mean. And I think his bolt arm is a separate piece, right? The skull shoulder is a seperate piece if I recall, if not easy to remove if your not worried about the bolt pistol. I haven't had the time or money to really get into the Legion rules but I do know that Chaplain armor is painted Black in 40k to represent faith in the emperor. This combined with the Rosarius I feel are largely a post heresy addition to their tradition and duties. And the head any idea if its fixed or a separate piece? If I remember right (Built this guy months ago) the head itself is fixed, but the bolt pistol shoulder should be a seperate piece. Expect the crozius to need some bending to get it straight because mine did. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281839-heresy-era-chaplains/#findComment-3495018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMagnus Posted October 14, 2013 Author Share Posted October 14, 2013 Looking through the SM range at the GW website, I think this might be a good solution: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1800076a_99800101003_EmperorsChampion_873x627.jpg The emperors champion is an amazing mini and if I exchange the closed fist for a power fist and the sword with a crozius (I might be able to find something) it could do the trick. The armour could be mastercrafted MK III or MK IV. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281839-heresy-era-chaplains/#findComment-3495066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Looking through the SM range at the GW website, I think this might be a good solution: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1800076a_99800101003_EmperorsChampion_873x627.jpg The emperors champion is an amazing mini and if I exchange the closed fist for a power fist and the sword with a crozius (I might be able to find something) it could do the trick. The armour could be mastercrafted MK III or MK IV. His closed fist is built into the model so that'll be some work but would look cool, aside from not having the skull mask that is pretty much the most defining feature of chaplains. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281839-heresy-era-chaplains/#findComment-3495075 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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