how to explain the horus heresy and hobby

[GhostMalone]

Hmmm... A number of ways.

Anyway my OP is I need to figure out a way of introducing the heresy to not just her but others in general. My brothers were easy the young cousins were too.

 

Now I need to introduce the main woman in my life to it

[Conn Eremon]

Well, for one thing, don't try to find a "one size fits all" kind of introduction. You won't find one. People are different and are going to approach the setting differently. What could convince one could likewise turn off a dozen others to it. If somebody had told me a description like what Knight of the Raven and Kol Saresk as my first introduction, I'm pretty sure my first reaction would have honestly been "Well, I'm not an angsty teen who hides himself in black clothing and white face paint, so I'm good." And I would have never gotten into the setting. I got into it by other means that got me to a point where I could look at that kind of thing and say "Awesome, innit?" instead. I can look past the veneer that would have given me the wrong impression the first time around. So don't look for a general introduction. Look for a specific one.

 

In this case, your wife. So first things first, what is she in to? What does she like to do? Does she have any interests that could have some sort of connection, no matter how tenuous, to 30k/40k?

 

For me, it took videogames. I was on an RTS kick for a while and me and some friends at my local college were using the graphics lab computers to play games our own computers couldn't handle. One day they started playing Dawn of War, and I bought it to participate. I actually really enjoyed that RTS, more than the others I owned at the time. But at the time, it was a standalone game. The setting was still unfamiliar to me.

 

Then I moved to be closer to downtown, where I worked. While going through my boxes of stuff, I came across my old PS1 games. I had the Space Hulk disc, sans booklet or original case. I never really played it when I was a kid, because it was hard for me and I couldn't figure out the controls without the instructions booklet. But I remembered it nonetheless, with all the nostalgia childhood memories can have, and it clicked that the image on the disc was familiar. Lo and behold, they were part of the same shared universe. Then curiosity struck and I went to look to see what else there is about this shared universe. Apparently TONS. Like holy crap, I had barely, barely scratched the surface.

 

But I didn't care about the wargame. :cuss that, I got too little money anyways, and I'm sure the only place to play in my community is Krier's Cards and Comics, which is filled to the brim with all the wrong kind of nerds that make you cringe to know you share an interest. The kind that stop a Magic the Gathering tournament cold because a real, living girl just walked through that door. But I'm a huge book nerd, so I borrowed a friend's copy of the first Gaunt's Ghost omnibus. Got hooked, bought the whole dang series that was out by that point, and decided to branch out for something else. Horus Rising had just been released, so I went for that. Same author, and it seemed to be the start of some sort of prequel series. The rest is pretty much history. Devoured the Horus Heresy books, expanded into other book series, got really into the fluff that could be read in GW's and FW's publications, then kind of got burned out on GW but still got a growing hard on for FW. 

 

That's what it took to get me into the hobby, insofar as I am in the hobby, what with not being a tabletop gamer. You know what didn't get me into the hobby? Hours of listening to my friends talk about Warhammer 40k while I'm around. The friend that lent me Gaunt's Ghost was a fan of the fluff and knew quite a bit of it, as did some of the others. They got into fluff discussions all the time, and I'd listen, interested. But once the conversation shifted, it got tossed out of the brain as "Ehhh, nah." information. I had to get invested first. It took a good game, a nostalgic memory, and quality author to do that.

 

It might take a different combination for your wife. And it might never happen. It doesn't have to happen. She doesn't "need" to get the hobby. She might need to accept it, if it's not something you're willing to give up for her (which I'm not advocating you should), but she doesn't have to be a part of it. Not everyone likes Warhammer 40k, and it isn't always because they don't "get it." At the end of the day, she might just not be a fan. She might even hate it, whatever you do. Doesn't matter what my last girlfriend tried to do, I hated the Twilight series. I read them and they were god awful. But, though I couldn't comprehend her interest in it, or anyone else's for that matter, I didn't have to. It was her enjoyment, but not mine. I put up with the discussions, she reigned herself in a bit.

[Zynk Kaladin]

Have you got her to sit down and model/paint with you?

 

Strike a deal where both of you can spend time together.  Do something with her that she wants to do one week.  Then the next, get her to paint some models with you.  Sacrifice a model to the pink armor gods.  Explain to her some cool aspects of the storyline and how it relates to her interests.  Do it naked.  When it's all over one night tell he how lucky you are to find a girl like her and how happy you are she spends time with you.

 

Have fun.  Get soft and emotional.  Tear down the walls of Terra, you filthy traitor.

[Wade Garrett]

Anyone who moans about Twilight was obviously never dragooned into reading Anne Rice. (Another point for Dark Apostle Krulak: Never tries to make me read stuff I don't want to!)

 

Sparklevamps > Lestat

[Conn Eremon]

What's the difference? Lestat is part of the progress of young adult vampire novels that led to Edward. Far as I'm concerned, same thing, different authors.

[Zynk Kaladin]

Dark Apostle Krulak sounds like a total bro...

 

A traitorous bro... 

 

I hate him.

[Scribe]

Whoa whoa whoa. Twilight > Anne Rice? I dont know if I can cross that line.

[Kol Saresk]

What's the difference? Lestat is part of the progress of young adult vampire novels that led to Edward. Far as I'm concerned, same thing, different authors.

No the Red Court Vampires, those are Vampires worth watching.

 

Whoa whoa whoa. Twilight > Anne Rice? I dont know if I can cross that line.

It'd be more like Twilight=Anne Rice. Or rather Anne Rice => Twilight.

[Conn Eremon]

No the Red Court Vampires, those are Vampires worth watching.

 

That's what I like about Butcher's Vampire Courts. They're basically a part of everything vampiric, from the varying cultural origins to their current status in popular media. The Black Court outright states that these are the dark magic shapeshifter undead made popular by Wallachia's hero, even stating that Bram Stoker writing a book on how to kill them is the leading cause for their current endangered status. The Red Court has a lot of elements of Slavic folklore that predate Dracula, while also being quite the melting pot of Western European and New World elements that focus on the vampiric. They originate from the jungles of South America and are worshipped as Gods by these people, go through a transition where these gods and the infamous conquistadores and their armies combine, and have goblinoid appearances underneath their skin that is akin to the pre-Dracula Eastern European vampiric myths. The rarely named, and never shown or extrapolated upon, Jade Court is, considering its name and worldly concerns an East Asian themed vampiric court.

 

Now, the White Court are the Anne Rice and Twilight Vampires. This is another example of the same thing, different authors. However, we have in Jim Butcher an author of better quality, by those of our tastes. The White Court are emotion-feeders. They feed off of feelings. The House currently in power are succubi and incubi, hyper-sexualized predators, clearly based off of the current trend of attractive anti-hero vamps sprouting up everywhere for some time now, but he didn't just make them about that. He also created some who feed off of fear, and who feed off of despair. Others given license to expand in his world created another for anger. He also made sure that they were one and all monstruous, even if there are good apples among them. They are, in fact, the Ruinous Four. But they are clearly a product of the same line that has produced Anne Rice's Vamperotica and Stephanie Meyer's Vapidire.

 

And this is so off topic it burns.

[Kol Saresk]

I saw the White Court as the literal personification of the old legends of European Succubi and Incubi combined with a million other daemons/monsters that fit into the same categories. Like lilitu and lamia . Even the fact that you have to be born a White Court vampire can be fitted into those old tales.

Rice/Meyer Vampires are just so......... human. And in all the wrong ways.

Now, how to segue back to explaining the Heresy..... ah yes. Succubi are daemonettes!

[Wade Garrett]

Jim Butcher? Nothing against him but boys...broaden your horizons.

 

I'm talking Vampire$ by John Steakley. Necroscope by Brian Lumley. They Thirst. From Dusk Till Dawn. Near Dark. Even Lost Boys, Monster Squad and the original Fright Night. Those are the vamps I grew up with, and Anne Rice RUINED IT FOREVER!

 

In comparison to her, Laurel K. Hamilton (Dear Khorne why?) or Charlene Harris (KHORNE! KILL ME! KILL ME NOOOW!) Stephanie Meyer, whose entire output my mother assigned me to read to ensure it was a suitable Christmas present for my baby sister, was a fairly pleasant read.

 

Especially when the real vampires start showing up in book two.

[Zynk Kaladin]

*cough* Brothers...

 

http://cdn.head-fi.org/7/76/76d31508_c851d40e_Derail_1.jpeg

 

Let's keep it on how to manipulate other people into being more receptive of our beloved hobby.  Vampires are heresy which Blood Angels and their successors are NOT.

[Kol Saresk]

Lost Boys was pretty awesome. From Dusk till Dawn..... I kept falling asleep. Necrosope and Vampire$ had their moments, but I honestly cannot say they left me with major impressions. Maybe it's just been a while since I read them.

 

EDIT: Maybe we can use vampires to introduce people.........

[Wade Garrett]

Now I want a Heresy era Word Bearer force based on Team Crow, just so I can have a Moritat named Felix.

 

(The movie was, in my opinion, far inferior to the book. Although James Woods as Jack Crow steals the show.)

 

Edit for inspiration:

 

"See, in the Heresy you have Horus and the Luna Wolves, who are sort of like Jacob and his tribe; and Sanguinus and the Blood Angels, who are a lot like the Cullens. Except instead of moping over Bella Swann they fight a ten thousand year war with each other."

[Zynk Kaladin]

 

EDIT: Maybe we can use vampires to introduce people.........

 

I'm a firm believer that munching on people's necks is a very effective way at introducing not only ourselves, but our hobby.

 

EDIT: CURSE YOU KOL MAKING ME GO SEMI-OFF TOPIC.

[Conn Eremon]

I read one of Lumley's books, can't remember the title. Not my kind of thing. I wouldn't lump Butcher and Lumley together, as they are trying to provide two very different things. Same with Rice, Hamilton, Harris and Meyer, to be honest.

[Wade Garrett]

Well.

 

I was considering if it would be possible to use a viewing of Francis Ford Coppola's Dracula (where Drac is explicitly linked to Vlad the Impaler) to segue into explaining to a female person why Curze and the VIII Legiom are awesome.

 

Then I started to picture Gary Oldman as Dracula as Curze (It kind of works) hunted by Anthony Hopkins as Van Helsing as the Lion (Works surprising well. "Our brother is a concubine of demonic powers! We must pierce his hearts with our blades! All twelve of them!") and...Keaneu Reeves as Jonathan Harker as Guilliman ("Whoa, guvnah! There's like, a monster guy loose on Maccrage!").

 

And with that last one the wheels fell off.

[Brother Captain Sirus]

To get back on topic i'm just going to say dont force it down her neck, if she doesnt want to know leave it at that and just say you think its awesome. My wife gets sick of me and my close gaming circle from time to time but after 4 years she either ignores us entirely or paints her army (thats right after 3 and a half years she caved and got her own codex and 500pt army, chaos daemons but its a start lol).

[Wulf Vengis]

To get back on topic i'm just going to say dont force it down her neck, if she doesnt want to know leave it at that and just say you think its awesome. My wife gets sick of me and my close gaming circle from time to time but after 4 years she either ignores us entirely or paints her army (thats right after 3 and a half years she caved and got her own codex and 500pt army, chaos daemons but its a start lol).

I find it funny that every female (girl or woman) I've known to pick up the game and learn it has done so using demons. Khorne and Slaanesh to be exact and eventually moving to add Tzeentch to their armies. Not even kidding on this all six of the ones I've seen pick up this game choose identical starter rosters and expansions in the same order and points amounts.

 

I wonder if this should be something to worry about?

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

To get back on topic i'm just going to say dont force it down her neck, if she doesnt want to know leave it at that and just say you think its awesome. My wife gets sick of me and my close gaming circle from time to time but after 4 years she either ignores us entirely or paints her army (thats right after 3 and a half years she caved and got her own codex and 500pt army, chaos daemons but its a start lol).

I find it funny that every female (girl or woman) I've known to pick up the game and learn it has done so using demons. Khorne and Slaanesh to be exact and eventually moving to add Tzeentch to their armies. Not even kidding on this all six of the ones I've seen pick up this game choose identical starter rosters and expansions in the same order and points amounts.

 

I wonder if this should be something to worry about?

 

 

Six women starting with Slaanesh, who so happens to be represented by the number six? Dude, you're two-thirds of the way of going down a really bad rabbit hole.

[Olis]

If I was posed the question of explaining the hobby I would put forth the idea that it is essentially three hobbies in one, of which anyone could partake in any combination of them: Firstly there is the modelling aspect (which includes painting, converting and creating scenery) - it is something a lot of people indulge in (think of Airfix plastic kits and Hornby train sets). It isn't something that's strange or otherworldly. The only real difference here is that Warhammer kits are based upon imaginary concepts instead of historical vehicles and events. 

 

Secondly is the gaming. Again, the main difference here to the more mainstream perception of pushing models around the table - most of the public imagine what is described as 'historical wargaming' (or at least that's the impression I got whenever I got into this sort of conversation at the pub). The nearest I've heard of people thinking of the gaming (without actually getting it right) is that it's related in some way to D&D - the monsters, the dice and the stats are all shared features between both. At the end of the day, the simplest way to put it is that you push plastic and metal men around a table and roll dice. It's complicated chess.

 

Thirdly - the fluff. This, for many people, is the real draw of the 40k universe and, given that it's over 25 years in the making, the depth to it is incredible (and the contradictions can be troublesome, too). It's dystopian, it's dark, sometimes it can be morbidly humorous and it's larger than life (much like many things of that era, let's say mid 70's to the mid 80's, I mean just look at Judge Dredd). It's a Science Fantasy universe that draws in many people because they can find something that they like there - the variety of the background is much wider than it first seems.

 

Now, take a moment to think of where you are - you are on an internet message board which specialises in one aspect of the 40k universe (and has brought other tangential aspects under it's umbrella). This board has tens of thousands of members (although the majority frequent these halls on a less than regular basis). There are many other forums that are similar with large numbers of members also. This may seem a niche hobby to some people but just remember, this hobby community isn't exactly small and many of us are friendly to boot. ;)

[E.G.J.]

I've had a similar "problem" where my significant other thinks the hobby is lam-o and would prefer I do something else, like collect stamps.

 

I can certainly understand her, though.  Sometimes when I catch myself relaying something I've read in a BL novel that I'm excited about I cringe as I realize how it sounds to somebody who's not into the universe or sci-fi in general.  "So there are these genetically enhanced "super-warriors" called, errr space marines, who were created by a godlike 'Emperor' who also created 20 other super-beings called primarchs upon whose individual traits the space marines are based.  So this one primarch, named Angron, who's kinda like a gladiator with implants that enrage him, starts this decline that will eventually have him serve the blood god, an entity who exists in a parallel psychic dimension....."  Yeah so a sentence or two in and you can practically hear the needle scratch the vinyl in the listener's mind.  So sometimes I think we have to be content that somebody who's not into fantasy or science fiction may never be swayed.

 

That being said, everyone is different and most people with a somewhat open mind can surely find something redeeming in the hobby if they only give it a chance.  My fiance's reservations mainly revolve around her own perceptions of "gamers" etc and her fear that I will turn into her preconceived idea of what that entails.  Since I don't play the game, but instead get my 40k fix through modeling/painting and the novels, I'm fine as long as I don't spend too much time "hanging out" socializing at hobby stores or bring up 40K stories at the dinner table.  

 

She's also more accepting the more she sees the finished models and realizes the work that went into them.  One thing that worked for me was to show her a few models as works in progress so she could see their development towards finished product.  I also involved her a bit in the process by suggesting that she could pick out the individual pieces for one mini, which I would then assemble and paint, which she kindly did.  That one is, of course, her favorite.  Since she's always making fun of character names, I then asked her to name it, which she hasn't done yet and probably never will.  However, suggesting it gave her a moment's reflection about how tough that may be to do and that names like Talos, Ferrus Manus, or Rogal Dorn, are far better than Peter the Furious.

 

In the end I don't ask her to share the hobby with me as much as to just allow me the time to tinker with it.  The door is open if she wants to get more involved, but it's her decision if she wants to walk through it.  She still thinks it's lam-o.....but not as much as she did before.  Baby steps!  And I'm happy with that.

 

Best of luck to you. 

[GhostMalone]

Well she sees the effort put into it and she just believes I should put that effort and skill into other things.

 

I'll get her there though

[depthcharge12]

Despite playing sports most of my life...I could never get into fantasy football.

 

 

Its the equivalent sillyness to me that is the warhammer 40k :D

 

 

Some guys argue about it, which makes it even more funny. I tell them: "At the end of the day, they are just throwing a ball around and running up and down a field."

 

haha whatever keeps you sane.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

Suggested next two purchases: painting tray and spot lamp.

Spraying gets done elsewhere, but then you can sit next with her whilst she watches bad TV and you paint the details

Hint, don't try and watch anything you want as she switch to, 'I don't know how you can watch TV and paint at the some time. Why do we have to watch this rubbish etc.'