When GKs get 6th ed codex

[Brother Captain Sirus]

Basically i was just wondering what us GK players would like to see if and when we get a 6th ed codex, rather than the 5th ed bridge to new edition one we have now. For example would it be more units in general, more special characters (a chief librarian perhaps) or just more weapon variation. What types of chapter traits and relics would we like to see. Personally i would like to see us get adamantium will as a chapter trait as we are powerful pskers and are mentally trained against such things. Anyway enough from me.

 

Edit: clarification was apparently needed that i meant a new artwork, hard back cover codex.

[Leonaides]

When you get a 6th Ed codex......... hahahahahahahahahahaha.

 

You've already got one old bean, with psyker levels, warlord traits and everything.

[Gentlemanloser]

Basically access to everything 'normal' Marines get.

 

Stormshield, Meltas, Grav guns, Bikes, Speeders and Centurion.

 

I'd also like to not have non IC characters that suck, and break the rules.  A workable Mordrak for one.

 

Cheaper Terminators.

 

Battle Brothers.  I don't care if it's Sisters of Battle (and the :cuss Khornate Knights fluff is reconned), just someone.

 

Strikes with Scout/Infiltrate rather than Deep Strike.

 

Astral Aim to do something *worthwhile*.

 

The ability for any GK Squad to swap out thier Powers for a roll.

 

Obviously, we'll get our own Warlord table, and hopefully our own Psychic Power Chart.

 

Falchions that give the usual +1A for a seocnd weapon...

 

More options to use Personal Teleports (Brotherhood Champion, I'm looking at you!)

 

And much, much more. ;)

[hisdudeness]

Leonaides nailed it, GK was the 1st unofficial 6th codex. Besides minor tweaking I don't think much needs to change.

[Gentlemanloser]

We got the equivalent of the old DA codex.  Where *some* of the new stuff for 6th was put in, but we were hamstrung by having to also cater for 5th, and be 'backwards compatible'.

 

A proper 6th edition Codex is quite necessary.

[Brother Captain Sirus]

@ leonides and hisdudeness - i meant actual official 6th ed, not the on the fence 5.5 ed. And if by warlord traits you mean that standard rulebook ones then you are being pedantic as i meant codex specific traits like all full fledged 6th eds have. I apologise if the OP was unclear and i will amend this.

[Gentlemanloser]

 

You've already got one old bean, with psyker levels, warlord traits and everything.

 

Leo, what Warlord Traits? 

 

I guess you're alluding to The Grand Strategy?  But we get that in addition to a roll on the BRB tables.

[hisdudeness]

I really don't think a 6th codex is 'needed' but I agree it would be nice. I'm not sure the change that happens at that time will be what everyone wants. Codexes are getting fluffier and not catering to the comp players.

[number6]

So far, I've had good games with my GKs under 6th edition. I did get royally boned by Eldar shortly after their new codex. But I was also experimenting with an all-foot list. For once. 'Cause, you know, why not try it? Everybody tells me that vehicles are dead?

Well, it was proven to me quite roundly that's just magical thinking.

That aside -- and I do think we will struggle against most "competitive" Tau and Eldar builds -- I'm still winning games, if not as easily or quite as often as I did under 5th edition.

Shy of receiving some brand-new units -- always a welcome possibility -- all we really need for a "proper" 6e codex is more variability in psyker powers and warlord traits.

There are things about the 5e codex I never did like much -- the lack of storm shields, melta weapons, the ability to shoot farther than 24" at least some of the time, etc. -- but that's not the same thing as them being "broken". Astral aim is actually quite useful, for example.

[Gentlemanloser]

 

Astral aim is actually quite useful, for example.

 

Lies!

 

lol! ;)

[Grand Master Caloth]

@ GL, actually he is quite correct. Astral Aim has many good uses, esp because the save it grants cannot be upgraded by going to ground. Sometimes, giving them the 50/50 is far better than not being able to shoot at them. Esp if you can combine it with a Libby who pulled the "ignores cover" divination power. Also, our falchions DO give +1 A, like every other two weapon, non-specialist weapon combos. Also, while some of your list has merits, things like the Centaurions have no place in our codex or our fluff.

 

@ Leonaides, was the snarky comment required? No, we do not have warlord traits, and we all know what constitutes a 6th Ed codex, and what we have does not meet more of those criteria. As it was put by the OP, we have a bridge codex, not a 6th ed.

[boreas]

Basically access to everything 'normal' Marines get.

Stormshield, Meltas, Grav guns, Bikes, Speeders and Centurion.

Oh, please, no centurions! Change the heavy psycannon and heavy psilencer to make the DK a better shooting platform (possibly at the cost of being worst in CC). Some nasty anti-flying -MC AA shooting (auto-ground, etc)

I'd also like to not have non IC characters that suck, and break the rules. A workable Mordrak for one.

I find Mordrak fine and fun, but then again most SCs are. Cheaper Ghost termies or Ghost termies with cool rules (à la Legion of the Damned). Justicar Thawn still has to be clarified 100%. Coteaz will go up in points, I guess...

Cheaper Terminators.

Won't happen. Our termies are amongst the best in the game. Possibly some GK-wise rule change to give a minor improvement (ex: a shrouding that gives reduced range to shooting weapons à la DE nightshields).

Battle Brothers. I don't care if it's Sisters of Battle (and the Khornate Knights fluff is reconned), just someone.

All the way, yes... We're part of the good guys

Strikes with Scout/Infiltrate rather than Deep Strike.

Why? I love to DS some GKss against many opponents... Plus GS can give scout, no? Plus GKss suffer from too manygood things syndrome. They cost too much because they have too many good things. If only the Justicar's weapon was Force and the rest was power, they could be cheaper.

Astral Aim to do something *worthwhile*.

I've never used purgation squads, enough said :) AA should remove all cover save if the unit has a LOS to target, I think.

The ability for any GK Squad to swap out thier Powers for a roll.

Humm, harder to manage (having to roll those powers, keep track, etc). I like it the way it is. GKGM and GKcapt. could swap, I guess.

Obviously, we'll get our own Warlord table, and hopefully our own Psychic Power Chart.

Yep

Falchions that give the usual +1A for a seocnd weapon...

Falchion give +1 attack for second weapon. But for the price, they should give something more.

More options to use Personal Teleports (Brotherhood Champion, I'm looking at you!)

Quite right!

And much, much more.

I think our codex is still pretty good. Grav weaponry apart, I think we're still better than the Vanilla codex.

[Gentlemanloser]

 

@ GL, actually he is quite correct. Astral Aim has many good uses, esp
because the save it grants cannot be upgraded by going to ground.
Sometimes, giving them the 50/50 is far better than not being able to
shoot at them. Esp if you can combine it with a Libby who pulled the
"ignores cover" divination power. Also, our falchions DO give +1 A, like
every other two weapon, non-specialist weapon combos. Also, while some
of your list has merits, things like the Centaurions have no place in
our codex or our fluff.

 

Centurion have no place in any Codex or fluff. But sadly, they're here.

 

Falchions give +1A as a special ability, but count as a single weapon choice, and not as two separate weapons.  They should give +2A in total, like Mirror Blades.

[Lysere]

 

@ GL, actually he is quite correct. Astral Aim has many good uses, esp

because the save it grants cannot be upgraded by going to ground.

Sometimes, giving them the 50/50 is far better than not being able to

shoot at them. Esp if you can combine it with a Libby who pulled the

"ignores cover" divination power. Also, our falchions DO give +1 A, like

every other two weapon, non-specialist weapon combos. Also, while some

of your list has merits, things like the Centaurions have no place in

our codex or our fluff.

 

Centurion have no place in any Codex or fluff. But sadly, they're here.

 

Falchions give +1A as a special ability, but count as a single weapon choice, and not as two separate weapons.  They should give +2A in total, like Mirror Blades.

 

Falchions used to give +2 essentially, GW even ruled it that way in the FAQ, at some point though they changed it to just +1. Kind of a shame really.

[boreas]

Oh, and I want stormeagles, stormraven, etc... When did we go from "secret detentors of the Storm Raven" to "we're the chapter with the least flyers"?

[Brother Captain Sirus]

On the subject of deepstrike they could alwats let us have a deepstrike assault similar to the drop pod rules of C:SM. How would people feel about some kind of jetbike unit as we only have 2 FA units.

[Gentlemanloser]

 

Falchions used to give +2 essentially, GW even ruled it that way in

the FAQ, at some point though they changed it to just +1. Kind of a

shame really.

 

Falchions never gave +2A.  Some of us played them that way when the Codex was first released.

 

Until they were FAQed to only give +1A. :(

[Grand Master Caloth]

which is because it is a pair of blades. I have never heard of, nor seen it played as, the falchions giving +2.

[Oiad]

Here are some more to keep this coversation going:

• Stormtrooper Troop choice units, so those who want to play non-GK Inquisitorial armies without Coteaz can do so. Inquisitorial Valkyries would be an added bonus.
• Start all units Grey Knight marine infantry units off in Power Armour/Artificer armour and give us the choice to upgrade them to Terminator armour.
• For the love of the Emperor, get rid of the baby-carrying garbage model that is the Dreadknight and turn it into something a lot closer to this, or this.
• Please be more careful with the fluff. Since the last codex dropped it's been hard to have a good conversation about Grey Knights without someone else whining about one of its stories.
• Alternatively, make Draigo et al even more badass - to the point where those who have been taking the fluff all too seriously will give up and find some other hobby to moan about.

I'm sure I'll think of more after this is posted but that'll do for now.

[Gentlemanloser]

 

which is because it is a pair of blades. I have never heard of, nor seen it played as, the falchions giving +2.

 

As two CCW, it doesn't need it's own rule to give +1A.  You would get that be default.

 

But instead, it's a single Weapon, that has a special rule that gives you +1A.

 

Backwards, and doesn't justify its cost.

[DinoDoc]

Basically access to everything 'normal' Marines get.

 

Stormshield, Meltas, Grav guns, Bikes, Speeders and Centurion.

Why not just play with the Marine codex if you want everything they get?

[Valerian]

We did a thread similar to this a while ago, so I'm just going to port in some of the ideas from that earlier thread.  I think they are all still valid.  I developed this list based on fixing units that are poorly internally balanced and/or suboptimal.  Essentially, if folks typically avoid certain units over and over again, then something is wrong with them, and tweaking is justified:

 

Teleport Assault - Give all Grey Knights units the ability to Deep Strike via Teleportation. Many units already have the ability, but a handful of characters and units do not.  It really hurts your options for attaching Independent Characters, for example, when the unit can Deep Strike, but the Character cannot.  Do something similar to Deathwing Assault, where any/all of your Grey Knights units can be held in Reserve (no 50% limit).

Servo Skulls - Change the rules such that they don't go away when approached by the enemy. Perhaps increase cost to 10 points each to off-set this. It would be nice to be able to make good use of them, and enable Grey Knights to be a more precision Deep Strike force (even if they can't assault from Deep Strike, etc.).

Mordrak - Make him an Independent Character, however, he loses First to the Fray.  Ghost Knights stay as an option, but now get all options that other GKT get (e.g. Psycannon or Incinerator).  Ghosts Knights no longer disappear when Mordrak is removed as a casualty (they stick around to protect him, or his remains until the battle is over), and still generate new members if he takes Wounds.  Ghosts Knights have the Shrouded special rule.

Crowe - Would simply making him an Independent Character fix the issues? I think that is definitely the first start, then would recommend a clarification for no Rending on his Cleansing Flame, give him 4 base Attacks to use in lieu of the Perfect Warrior (as an option for when the Perfect Warrior stances aren't an advantage), and clarify that Rapier Strike works against all Characters (not just Independent Characters) and Monstrous Creatures. Oh, and I'd put the Daemon Sword on his back (no change to granting those bonuses to enemy that charge him), and let him use an Anointed Blade. I think that would fix a few rules as well as fluff issues with him.  Probably will need to increase his base cost by about 25 points to offset these new advantages.

Brotherhood Champion - Move him to the Elite section. Give him 2 Wounds and 3 base Attacks to use in lieu of the Perfect Warrior (as an option for when the Perfect Warrior stances aren't an advantage), and clarify that Rapier Strike works against all Characters (not just Independent Characters) and Monstrous Creatures. Give him an option to take a Personal Teleporter for +30 points. Increase his base cost to about 125 to offset the improvements. This fixes some issues, puts him in a better slot, makes him a more attractive choice, while also making it feasible to transform Interceptors into a dedicated assault force, if he is attached.

Brother Captain - Give a choice between Terminator Armour and Articifer Armour. If in AA, give an option to take a Personal Teleporter for +30 points. This helps differentiate him vice Grand Master, and adds another path to making Interceptors into a more viable assault force.

 

Apothecary - bring down his points to a +50 upgrade (vice +75).

Techmarine - Give him 2 Wounds and increase to 100 points base price.  As a walking "Swiss army knife" he is way too expensive for a 1 Wound model.  Give upgrade option for a Personal Teleporter (+30 points).

 

Nemesis Dreadknight - Bring down the cost for a Personal Teleporter to +50, and reduce the prices for all three of the Heavy Shooting Weapons (all are too expensive for what they do).  One of the cool abilities of Monstrous Creatures is being able to fire more than one weapon at a time, but nobody ever takes advantage of this with NDKs, because it is crazy expensive (in fact, many don't even give them a ranged weapon, at all).

Interceptor Squad - Give the Justicar an option to take a Teleport Homer (allows them to get into position, and then call in the rest of the force). Seems to make a hell of a lot more sense than giving it to the Purgation Squad's Justicar.  It fits the fluff, and would actually be useful.  Also gives you another incentive to actually field an Interceptor Squad.

 

Grey Knight Terminators - Need a squad-specific psychic power.  All of the other Knights squads get something (e.g. Warp Quake, Holocaust, or Astral Aim), but the Terminators only get the stock Hammerhand; it'd be nice if they got something unique, too.
 

Purgation Squad - Cover Your Brothers: Maximum ranges for Storm Bolters, Psilencers, and Psycanons are increased to 36” in hands of Purgation Squad members when they remain stationary during the Movement phase. Perhaps treat Incinerators as firing like Heavy Incinerator when stationary, too. Automatic ability, not a psychic power.

 

Skyfire: Purgators could be one of our answers to the Flyer problem.

Astral Aim: Little is hidden from the gaze of a Grey Knight Purgation Squad. Marshalling ancient sorceries, they can mystically guide their shots to the chosen target. This power can be used during the Grey Knights' Shooting phase. If the Psychic test is passed, the unit (and any accompanying character) can shoot at any enemy unit within range, even if they do not have line of sight to it or it is outside the distance they can see in a night fight. The target automatically has a 4+ Cover Save (which cannot be modified by any means) against this attack. Terrain that would normally give a better save, or special rules like Stealth that would normally improve a Cover Save do not work for units targeted by a Purgation Squad using Astral Aim. The squad cannot target an enemy unit that is embarked within a transport vehicle.

 

Now for some new things that would be nice to see:

 

Psyker Dreadnought: With some legitimate psychic powers other than just Fortitude.

 

Inquisitorial Stormtrooper Squads - Bring them back in all of their glory, not tied to a Special Character requirement.

 

Other:

 

Fix Psilencers.  They suck, and nobody ever takes them...even if they know they're playing against Daemons.

 

Falchions.  Make them a free upgrade; +1 attack is nice, but doesn't compare to getting +2 Initiative (Halberds) or Sx2 and AP2 (Hammers).  People might take them if they were free.  Otherwise, keep their current upgrade costs, but change them to give +2 attacks each; again, some people might take them then.   

 

Mastery Levels.  Make the upgrades for Mastery Levels for Librarians and Grand Masters, etc. cheaper (as is happening in recent 6e codices).

 

Orbital Strike Relay.  I think the Space Marine codex now allows Chapter Masters to move and fire their barrage; we need that.  This thing might be halfway useful if your Grand Master or Techmarine didn't have to sit still to use it.

 

 

There's more, but that ought to do for now.

 

Valerian

[Gentlemanloser]

 

Why not just play with the Marine codex if you want everything they get?

 

Becuase I enjoy every Marines being a Psyker.

 

You know, balance can come by points, rather than restricting toolkits (which makes *no* sense in universe).

[Reclusiarch Darius]

ITT: Unwarranted sense of entitlement

 

Srsly guiz. We have a 6th edition codex. No, we don't get all the toys vanilla Marines have. Big deal. We can still win games, we're just not going to win tournaments like Tau, Eldar, Crons or Daemons will. 

 

It'll be a wait till 7th edition, or just before. Mark my words, we aren't being touched for at least one more edition cycle. Orks still haven't gotten any love, not even rumours. 

[Brother Captain Sirus]

Can i just say at no point did i ever say this had to happen in the near future, or that it was likely to be touched before more desrving armies i.e. Orks, dark eldar, blood angels, tyranids, those poor sisters as they really deserve plastic kits, it is a discussion on what we would like to see in the next codex. So if you dont want to be apart of the discussion dont comment its that easy. As the intended aim was stated i feel to see why people are getting hung up on a trivial detail, so keep inflammatary comments in your mind and exercise self control, that is all i ask.