Grav Cannons vs. las-cannons

[Yosef Hausakluif]

What would you go for in regards to tank hunting and heavy armored infantry targets when arming yuor new centurions???;

 

the new garv cannon and amp, or the trusty old las-cannons?

 

As far as I can tell they are the same points in the new Dex, so what is your opinion or experience so far???

 

Also, I have not really dug inot the new 6th ed. rules as others have and am a bit confused by the Grav cannons wepaon profile in the new SM Dex; what is 3/5 stand for as an example?

 

And as far as shooting at vehicles; the grav cannon only hits and causes damage on a 6? 

 

Please set me straight so I better understand the pros and cons of this anti-armor weapon design.

[Lysere]

If you want to make tanks explode then las-cannons are better, especially if your playing an imperial fist army as they gain tank hunters. Grav cannons get no boost from tank hunters (Re-roll against vehicles already) and aren't twin-linked, also they only do their thing on a 6 regardless of armor. Las cannons are practically auto-penetrating some tanks, and with re-rolls are probably as effective as grav against AV 14. Las cannons can make things explode though, and mesh well with the missiles, and to top it off have twice the range. If you want an anti-elite/heavy tank unit Grav Cannons work great, but they are more defensive in nature while Las-cannons just reach out ruin vehicles. That said the Grav with hurricane bolters is the more flexible (despite shorter range) option.

[Yosef Hausakluif]

thanks for the quick run down on both, I really appriecate the feedback.

 

So heavy infantyr hunting then I should use the grav/cane bolters combo

and if I am going after tanks , then the trusty old las-cannon / ML's is the answer; magnets here I come! :)

[Ethrion]

Depends a little on what chapter trait you're working with - if you're using Imperial Fist tactics then the twin-linked lascannon loadout takes on a little more significance. But from my point of view I would always run grav cannon centurions. In every game I have played they have absolutely wrecked face - either marching to mid-table and holding the line or deploying via storm raven and drop inserting pretty much exactly where you need them.

 

You can take Tigurius to cast divination on them and make them even more deadly and even a threat to fliers - re-roll snap shots into the air results in enough 6s and then casting no cover save means they can't jink and all you need is two 6s to bring down fliers.

 

But against ground targets armoured and infantry, grav centurions are just pure filth... take them! :)

[Brother Captain Sirus]

To explain the 3/5 salvo type, its basically a rapid fire weapon but when you move you fire 3 shots at half range and when you stay still you get 5 at full range, but centurians have the SNP USR meaning you always fire at full range with all 5 shots but you cant fire overwatch.

[Disruptor_fe404]

I prefer the grav cannons, but that's primarily because you can't get them anywhere else.

 

Plus, the two choices serve rather different purposes.

[bystrom]

The 3/5 is due to the grav cannon's weapon type, which is Salvo. This is explained in the main rulebook, but essentially, the number of shots vary depending if you moved or not.

 

Also, Tank Hunter only affects armour penetration rolls. Since Grav weapons don't make such rolls, that rule doesn't have any effect.

[Kaedes Nex]

Wouldn't a standard Land Raider be a decent alternative to 3 TLLC Centurions? You only lose 1 TLLC and the chest weaponry but you gain the Land Raider.

 

I think I'm missing something here because I've seen a couple people say the 3 TLLC/CML is really good but I'm not seeing it. The grav setup gives way more shots and the Land Raider is already 2 TLLC shots.

[infornography]

3 las cannon/missile launcher cents are a strong long range firepower platform.  They can just camp in some good terrain on your side of the table and pop a vehicle a turn almost guaranteed.  They have almost as much firepower as a lascannon devastator squad and a missile launcher devastator squad for the same points, but with armor 2+ and T5.  This makes them highly resistant to heldrakes and they benefit more from IF chapter tactics. 

 

A land raider doesn't put out nearly as much total long range anti tank firepower.  Yeah it has 2/3s of the twin linked lascannons, but it doesn't have three missile launchers to go with them. 

 

I don't like the short range on the grav cannons.  They require you to get your cents far too close to the enemy which risks them getting stuck in melee with a tarpit unit.  With their cost, you can effectively tarpit them with just about anything.  Hell, 5 terminators would be considered a worthwhile tarpit against them. 

[the jeske]

Gravs are much better. With divination you are at worse [as in the open ] as good as a las , but when cover or being a flyer happens the gravs become a lot better. amped centurions with divination are an ok unit against flyers , 3 lascannons aren't worth being fired at a flyer. One also has to remember that centurions are a lot better at clearing units of objectives or helping with assaults , killing left overs from squads. With las you will kill max 3 dudes with gravs you kill a lot more and that is both in and outside of cover.

[Olgerth Istaarn]

Grav is for MCs, las is for vehicles. Right tool for the right job and all that. In theory, 2xLascannon Centurions and 1xGravcannon make a nice, stout all-comers long range unit for hunting hard targets. In practice, Centurions are so dreadfully overcosted that it makes them a subpar choice for any reason other than fluff.

 

Which is too bad.

[the jeske]

0_o man what are you talking about . 3 grav cents are an awesome load out with divination and/or amps your taking hull points easily.

[Lysere]

Gravs are much better. With divination you are at worse [as in the open ] as good as a las , but when cover or being a flyer happens the gravs become a lot better. amped centurions with divination are an ok unit against flyers , 3 lascannons aren't worth being fired at a flyer. One also has to remember that centurions are a lot better at clearing units of objectives or helping with assaults , killing left overs from squads. With las you will kill max 3 dudes with gravs you kill a lot more and that is both in and outside of cover.

 

Divination requires playing ultramarines and running their uber librarian, and he could still fail the roll or get shot. IF Las cannon centurions re-roll hits already and gain tankhunters. Las cannons are much better against AV 13 and down than grav is, especially since you can potentially kill them in one shot. This is even more apparent with tank hunters. Once you hit AV 14 though I'd say Grav is generally better even without divination. You just need to get closer to the target than a las cannon will, and Lemen Russ tanks aren't known for being up close and personal.

[infornography]

Grav cannons are quite good, but their range is the problem I have with them.  A problem las cannons and missile launchers don't share. 

[Molokai]

Ok so I'm resurrecting this thread. I'm yet to field my centurions ( which are magnetized) and would like some input.

Who's fielding the lascannons. I'll be running ws tactics with lots of bikes, two talons and two tfcs. The reason I chose cents was for long range anti av that only takes one slot.

How have they been fairing?

[Lysere]

Ok so I'm resurrecting this thread. I'm yet to field my centurions ( which are magnetized) and would like some input.

Who's fielding the lascannons. I'll be running ws tactics with lots of bikes, two talons and two tfcs. The reason I chose cents was for long range anti av that only takes one slot.

How have they been fairing?

 

I've yet to run more tests with the Las cannons. The first game I tried them out in with IF tactics my rolling was terrible, in absolutely every single way. Funnily enough though they still punched a hellhound to death. As for the Gravs, they've been rocking it out against infantry for me. Even against light infantry that re-roll wounds with grav combined with rapidfiring hurricane bolters is brutal. Their lack of invuln is more annoying when you have to be aggressive with them, but part of that was my Librarian (Carcharodon tactics) decided no he didn't want to live. Kind of annoying but they still pulled their weight quite well.

[MordentHex]

<p>not sure about the lascannons, but my unit of 6 with three grav, three T.L. heavy bolters, 3 storm bolters, and 3 ML seems to pump out a lot of pain on just about everything.  With that said, they are expensive as all get out but work beautifully. If i used imperial fists CT, the tank hunter would be rather nice for the TL HB's and ML to shred light/medium vehicle squadrons.</p>

[Molokai]

So it seems a lot of people are advocating the grav cents. I just have a hard time coming to terms with their range. I guess for my application it is moreso, as I want longe range support.

I guess the only way to find out is to test both?

[Lysere]

<p>not sure about the lascannons, but my unit of 6 with three grav, three T.L. heavy bolters, 3 Hurricane bolters, and 3 ML seems to pump out a lot of pain on just about everything.  With that said, they are expensive as all get out but work beautifully. If i used imperial fists CT, the tank hunter would be rather nice for the TL HB's and ML to shred light/medium vehicle squadrons.</p>

 

Hurricane bolters, not storm bolters. Huge difference in the amount of firepower.

 

Testing them is probably your best bet, after all it will vary depending on the rest of your list. If you don't have a lot of AT las/missile should be better, if your more aggressive grav should work well. Just don't model the guns on, or just use magnets.

[Molokai]

Yeah I magnetized. They're too expensive to buy multiples. I'm definitely going for long range so I'm gonna be testing las/ml primarily. Might switch to grav for laughs now n then.

 

Cheers lysere

[Xenith]

You can get lascannons elsewhere in the army.

 

Grav cannons offer a way to deal with mass AP2 that arguably cant be found outside plasma cannon dev squads or vindicators, and even then, the grav cannons are arguably much better than either of those options, using BS to his as opposed to blast scatter.

[Molokai]

Yeah I understand that, but in my situation I actually can't get lascannons elsewhere without sacrificing key units. It's basically come down to one free heavy slot that I need to pack as much long range low ap into as I can. I realize it's an expensive option but somehow it seems to fit.

 

Anyway, I'm yet to try them so I can always change tactics if they fail regularly.

[Tamwulf]

IF your heart is set on fielding Cent Devs, and IF you just must choose between Grav and LC...

 

I have fielded two TLLC/ML on the grunts, and gave the Sgt the Grav Weapon+Amp and a Hurricane Bolter with the Omniscope. The LC/ML guys shoot at vehicles, and the Sgt. shoots at the closest threats. This has worked fairly well for me, but here is the rub:

 

I've found that I'd rather have two units of Devastators, or two Predators, or a Stormraven, or a Land Raider, or a full unit of Sternguard in a Drop Pod with Melta, or Terminators, or... get the picture? So many other choices within the codex.

 

Interestingly enough, this is one of those units where you really don't want to specialize them. Giving them all Lascannons means you become vulnerable to assaults, while not really increasing your anti-vehicle enough to warrant the third TLLC. Giving them all Grav Weapons makes for a fearsome anti-infantry unit... but doesn't do much for vehicles. For that many points, you can field 2-3 Tactical Squads that will have more firepower. There is also the range issue, and the fact that the Cent Devs are Slow and Purposeful... ugh.

 

Basically, the Centurion Devs are not for me. There are better options in the Codex. If I ever field them again, it'll be 2xTLLC/ML, 1xGrav+Amp, Hurricane, and Omniscope.

[Lysere]

You can get lascannons elsewhere in the army.

 

Grav cannons offer a way to deal with mass AP2 that arguably cant be found outside plasma cannon dev squads or vindicators, and even then, the grav cannons are arguably much better than either of those options, using BS to his as opposed to blast scatter.

 

I'll be honest, there are very few people in my area that run 2+ saves in decent enough numbers to warrant specialized units to eliminate. Vehicles though, I see plenty of them.

[CCE1981]

When I finally get home and get a chance to finally play the new codex I intend to run Gravcannon Centurions with Dark Angels (DA) Allies.  DA get access to Divination, so all I really need is a 65 pt DA Librarian, and I will give him a Powerfield Generator (PFG) for 30 pts. The PFG will give him and all models, enemy and friendly, a 4+ invuln. The theoryhammer seems to point to them being a pretty good center table unit.

 

I will have 3 Centurions with a 4++, and a Librarian casting Prescience on them.