jeremy1391 Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 So alpharius was only in command for 25 years before the drop site massacre... Also in 965 M30 and 969 M30 the space wolves were involved in two instances which resulted in "all data redacted" wonder what they are hinting at.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281918-some-things-ive-noticed-in-massacre/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Could one of those dates been the "Night of the Wolf" where they fought the World Eaters? Could also be incidences involving wolfen that the E wanted covered up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281918-some-things-ive-noticed-in-massacre/#findComment-3495251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 More than most likely. The Night of the Wolf was shortly after Angron's arrival, whenever that was. And both of these events are within one hundred years of the Heresy, which began 007.M31 IIRC. So only eleven to seventeen years before Alpharius was announced, and since Corax was before Alpharius and the Lost Legions were lost before Corax, yeah. Necessary inference says those are not dates to do with Lost Legions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281918-some-things-ive-noticed-in-massacre/#findComment-3495272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy1391 Posted October 15, 2013 Author Share Posted October 15, 2013 Sounds logical.... So night of the wolf is a possibility, but what could the other be... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281918-some-things-ive-noticed-in-massacre/#findComment-3495311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 The aforementioned Wulfen incident? I would say Nikea, but that'd end up being 007.M31 by that one timetable IIRC. Then again, it could have been left a blank slate for us to do whatever with, like SW vs NL. Or a watch-pack running afoul of a silence squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281918-some-things-ive-noticed-in-massacre/#findComment-3495320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I feel that it's wrong iirc the cabal contacted the AL 50yrs before istvaan. And that would mean the first engagement as a legion was legion. Yet they have a set style of warfare and were already aware of chaos :/ seems incorrect and Alpharius spent years with horus upon his finding Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281918-some-things-ive-noticed-in-massacre/#findComment-3495330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Was Legion fifty years back? I thought only The First Heretic and Descent of Angels went that far, with the former being when the Lion was found? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281918-some-things-ive-noticed-in-massacre/#findComment-3495335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Legion is two years before the heresy. So chapter one of the novel says. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281918-some-things-ive-noticed-in-massacre/#findComment-3495343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Even the Alpha Legion IA mentioned how late in the Crusade that Alpharius came into it. This isn't exactly something new. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281918-some-things-ive-noticed-in-massacre/#findComment-3495344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Ahh I felt that the cabal were giving them time it's been like 4 years since I read it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281918-some-things-ive-noticed-in-massacre/#findComment-3495345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sanvael Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I would have thought the 2 redacted would be hinting at the 2 missing legions. It's been hinted in Prospero Burns and First Heretic that Russ doesn't want to do "that" again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281918-some-things-ive-noticed-in-massacre/#findComment-3495426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I would have thought the 2 redacted would be hinting at the 2 missing legions. It's been hinted in Prospero Burns and First Heretic that Russ doesn't want to do "that" again. Time line doesn't work for the missing legions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281918-some-things-ive-noticed-in-massacre/#findComment-3495439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 We don't know the timeline of the two Missing. More than likely, the two redacted are being deliberately put there so that people can make that connection, while making it vague enough that it could be literally anything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281918-some-things-ive-noticed-in-massacre/#findComment-3495459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 We don't know the timeline of the two Missing. More than likely, the two redacted are being deliberately put there so that people can make that connection, while making it vague enough that it could be literally anything. See Kols post above for some reference on Lost Legion time line. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281918-some-things-ive-noticed-in-massacre/#findComment-3495462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 One of those is most likely "Night of the Wolf", as it was not condoned by the Emperor in any way, and it also got out of hand... I can see it being something that the Emperor would want covered up, Astartes killing Astartes, which is something that was unheard of at the time and probably resulted in personal shame for the Wolves. The second, who knows... It's already been more or less established that they didn't wipe out the missing Legions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281918-some-things-ive-noticed-in-massacre/#findComment-3495468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I would have thought the 2 redacted would be hinting at the 2 missing legions. It's been hinted in Prospero Burns and First Heretic that Russ doesn't want to do "that" again. The other problem would be that The First Heretic only says that if the Gal Vorbak had killed the Lost Primarchs back then, they would have saved Lorgar much suffering. And then we see the baseless speculation that the Lost Legions were assimilated by the Ultramarines, as a way to explain their massive numbers. Which would've meant that the Lost Legions were not destroyed according to that specific line of thought. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281918-some-things-ive-noticed-in-massacre/#findComment-3495491 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 We don't know the timeline of the two Missing. More than likely, the two redacted are being deliberately put there so that people can make that connection, while making it vague enough that it could be literally anything. See Kols post above for some reference on Lost Legion time line. His post is based on a Deliverance Lost quote, which is now known to be wrong. The official order of discovery has a Primarch between Corax and Alpharius. One of the Missing. So like I said, we really don't know the timeline of the Missing. We have tidbits here or there that are often contradictory. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281918-some-things-ive-noticed-in-massacre/#findComment-3495497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 We don't know the timeline of the two Missing. More than likely, the two redacted are being deliberately put there so that people can make that connection, while making it vague enough that it could be literally anything. See Kols post above for some reference on Lost Legion time line.His post is based on a Deliverance Lost quote, which is now known to be wrong. The official order of discovery has a Primarch between Corax and Alpharius. One of the Missing. So like I said, we really don't know the timeline of the Missing. We have tidbits here or there that are often contradictory. It is? Still, The First Heretic has them missing before the Pilgrimage. IIRC, that was fifty years before the Heresy. So there's a lot pointing to them becoming Lost before these time periods as they're only around 40-ish years before the Heresy. I think 46 is the farthest time period. But even if we want to say The First Heretic was actually 45-49 years before the Heresy and was just rounde to fifty to make it an indistinct date, it doesn't leave a whole lot of wiggle room for the second Primarch to be found and both be lost and their Legions leave such a vacuum that the VI claim responsibility for making it while the XVII speculates the Legions claimed asylum with the XIII. Also, I thought the timeline was something unnofficial? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281918-some-things-ive-noticed-in-massacre/#findComment-3495502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I supposed you could call it unofficial, being a forum post. But it was posted by an BL editor, Laurie Golding or something, who stated that it was the newly created list all future projects will follow. That makes it official, to me. A peek behind the scenes. That throws the timelines of The First Heretic and Deliverance Lost into doubt. With those timelines in doubt, we are back to simply not knowing. Like I said, all we got are tidbits, often contradictory. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281918-some-things-ive-noticed-in-massacre/#findComment-3495507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Well, that's fantastic. I see the headline now, "We endeavor to make the HH as seamless a group effort as possible by discounting as much previous efforts as possible everytime we rock the boat." So wait, is The Lightning Tower discounted where it says Dorn was lucky number 7, IIRC? Actually, can you just link it please? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281918-some-things-ive-noticed-in-massacre/#findComment-3495510 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I don't know why I read these threads, every time they just reaffirm that the entirety of Black Library is nothing but a bunch of dirty Alpha Legionnaires all intent on confusing and frustrating every fan of the universe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281918-some-things-ive-noticed-in-massacre/#findComment-3495512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I think it was more of a "You did what? But he just said this! And then we got this guy contradicting that guy, you know what, :cuss it, I'll put it in writing and everyone follows the same list. Now, it's going to contradict a lot of work no matter what, so concentrated on what makes the more sense." But I'm optimistic and I really don't see much collusion in the earlier books. Unless ADB comes along to tell me how it really is, that's how I see it. http://z13.invisionfree.com/The_First_Expedition/index.php?showtopic=136&st=15&&do=findComment&comment=22047835 Horus Leman Russ [DELETED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS] Ferrus Manus Fulgrim Vulkan Rogal Dorn Roboute Guilliman Magnus the Red Sanguinius Lion El'Jonson Perturabo Mortarion Lorgar Jaghatai Khan Konrad Curze Angron Corax [DELETED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS] Alpharius Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281918-some-things-ive-noticed-in-massacre/#findComment-3495518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Funnily enough, it puts Night of the Wolf close enough to that time period that it could have been one of those events. Depending on the years. Still, I'd like to think there was some consistency among BL since I can't imagine why else they'd have meetings. Nothing like one person doing one thing while another does something else to create inconsistency. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281918-some-things-ive-noticed-in-massacre/#findComment-3495520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Blarg, forum ate my post. I think its placement in time was intended to allow anyone to formulate their own ideas off of it. Night of the Wolf? One or both of the Missing? Possibly. Something else entirely? Intriguing! No one would be wrong, just unproven. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281918-some-things-ive-noticed-in-massacre/#findComment-3495523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 The Emperor seemed to know he would find Alpharius but knew he would lose the one found after Corax (going by this list and "Deliverance Lost") Also Golding says there is a discrepancy between when a Primarch was found a when they take control of their Legion. I forget who said it but someone here mentioned how they think the Emperor found them when he wanted to find them. I like that idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281918-some-things-ive-noticed-in-massacre/#findComment-3495542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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