Bolter Scouts

[UltraTacSgt]

In the past, bolter Scouts seemed like a bit of a red-headed step child as far as Scout configurations go. I am wondering if anyone thinks that has changed at all.

 The way I envision running them is 4 Bolters, 1 HB, a teleport homer, and probably Melta Bombs on the Sgt. They would scout move onto an unclaimed or out of the way objective, or near a unit that was left off alone somewhere, or out of LoS somewhere I want to bring my Terminators in. I would use them to harass and tie up units as the opportunity arises and bring my Tactical Terminators in onto a weak flank or behind enemy lines or whatever the situation calls for.  

 I could do them as either Ultramarines or Imperial Fists as well. IF seems more useful to mitigate their lower BS to a degree.

 What do you guys think?

 Are bolter wielding Scouts a viable unit now? Either to use as I described or in some other capacity?

[BassWave]

I was thinking of using some bolter scouts in a storm speeder with heavy flamer. A large blast, a flamer, and bolters are bound to hurt something.

[hallodx]

Agree with Bass. Since LSS is now scouts' dedicated transport this is full of win. They can move to a good firing position very fast, unleashing bolter shots, heavy bolter shells and heavy flamer heat. Even losing LSS scouts can still go and deny enemy obj taking.

[DarkGuard]

I've used bolter Scouts in my Terminator lists recently as a go between snipers and shotguns. Much more flexibility than the other two, enabling them to change battlefield role easily. They're cheap enough that you don't care if they do nothing but hunker down behind terrain on an objective, but they can also grab far flung objectives in midfield and the like, or harass the enemy, depending on your set up. And again, so cheap you don't worry what happens to them.

[corlinjewell]

I love using them in LSS with Outflanking to get in behind enemy lines after the enemy has mobilized.  They can be a threat for enemy backfield holders (or barrage tanks if they have MBs).  They are also awesome for claiming linebreaker if they hunker down in cover (unless the enemy mobilizes resources to take them out, which is a nice cheap distraction.  I find linebreaker key if I lose First Blood.

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

I've been toying with scouts in a squad of ten.  4 sniper rifles and a heavy bolter with hellfire (for hordes and big T creatures) all with cloaks.  4 guys with bolters.  1 sgt with meltabombs and a combi-melta (and a teleport homer if you plan to bring in termies).  A LSS with the Aslt. Can. (whose range matches that fo the bolters well and whose multiple shots kind of mitigates the lower BS).  You could go with the MM of course, but it will miss 50% of the time.

 

I'm not a fan of scouts in an assault role unless you are talking about two or three squads from two or three LSS all w/ heavy flamers.  They are just not numerous enough to win assaults with only five guys, even with T4 and S4.  If you are kitting them for assault I prefer the CCW/pistol configuration.  I've played with shotguns and I seem to have a knack for either doing nothing with them or for shooting myself out of a charge.  However, I can see the argument for the shotgun as a I10 double attack.

 

There is also something to be said for taking 5 snipers and putting the heavy weapon on the LSS crew and outflanking them.  The idea is to go for rear armor shots on things.  In that case I would ALWAYS go with bolters since the 24" range combines better with the heavy weapon range.  If you run Ultramarines CT, Tellion is awsome in this unit.

 

As far as CTs go.  IF does somewhat mitigate the lower BS.  I'd also probably consider White Scars for bolter scouts because you could disengage to shoot again.  Ultramarines has lots of flexability, but I'm not sure the scouts benefit all that much aside from Tellion.

[minigun762]

What about squads of 10 basic Bolter Scouts with no upgrades?

If we assume that the main focus of Scouts is deployment options and the primary goal of troop squads is to claim objectives, we don't need to invest much to let them do just that.

Deploy however is best depending on the objectives and layout of the board. Stick to cover and focus on getting onto objectives, not engaging the enemy. The lack of heavy or special weapons will keep you focused on the "objective" at hand and not taking pot shots at random targets.

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

I like sniper rifles because of the potential to rend something like say a Riptide.  I like camo cloaks because when you are gone to ground on an objective and are hanging on to it for dear life, that boost to the cover save can be the difference.  Otherwise, I agree, 10 scouts with little else can be quite good.

 

I might still also load on a melta bomb too.  Not all missions are objective based and sometimes you need options.  Given the potential to outflank, a melta bomb might be really important.

[corlinjewell]

What about squads of 10 basic Bolter Scouts with no upgrades?

If we assume that the main focus of Scouts is deployment options and the primary goal of troop squads is to claim objectives, we don't need to invest much to let them do just that.

Deploy however is best depending on the objectives and layout of the board. Stick to cover and focus on getting onto objectives, not engaging the enemy. The lack of heavy or special weapons will keep you focused on the "objective" at hand and not taking pot shots at random targets.

I see two problems with this potentially (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong):

1. You start spending too many points on something that isn't really designed to do anything (If I want a good set-up advantage, I would rather have a tac squad in a rhino or just use Chapter Tactics/characters that let you Scout/Outflank with all of your stuff).

2. ten guys becomes a juicier target for enemies, making them believe that they might as well come get them, denying you linebreaker and scouts tend to get crumped if looked at too harshly in my experience.

I like running the five guys in outflank, because they don't set-up on the board initially and seem non-threatening enough that people don't alter their plans to compensate for when they come in.

[hallodx]

Speaks if melta scout, before C:SM 6th my melta bomb scout can always pop up some tanks lol. Mech players just like to ignore them, even I told them sgt carries melta bomb. I don't know why.

[tdemayo]

Back in 3rd/4th I used to run a ten man bolter scout squad. They were surprisingly good. Infiltrate let me place them near my line, but maybe just out of the deployment area, in some ruins or other terrain non-infiltrators couldn't reach. I could also (sometimes) ninja them into the side or backfield, but not immediately vulnerable. Opponents tended to ignore them, sometimes to their peril, because there are plenty of things 10 bolters can kill.

 

I've since sold that army, and have thought of getting some more. I think they'd be an ideal (and cheap) load out to place in a Storm raven and fly over Raven poop them at objectives. If they land at range, use the 24" shots. If they land too close, double tap. If they get shot down and die, well they're cheap. Who cares?

[Azash]

A 5 man squad of bolter scouts is a great unit to put in a Storm Raven. The automatically pass the dangerous if they scatter and if the Raven lawn darts your only out the cost of a 5 man squad of bolter scouts. If things work out you can drop them on a objective on your way to do other things in the later rounds. 

 

 

The other combination I have been thinking about is a 10 man squad of bolter scouts held in reserve. Depending on the deployment you can either hold them in reserve or outflank with with them. This makes a great edge denial unit as your opponent is forced to deploy and move with the attitude that the bolter scouts could come in.

 

Yes scouts are crappier than marines but lets be honest scouts are better than allot of other armies basic troops. The thing is our view as marine players tend to be a bit skewed because were used to marines. If you think scouts are crumpy try a 10 man squad of guardsman or guardians...

 

The real killer is WS and BS of 3, however this can be partially mitigated by running this in an IF list. Now you are only missing on 2's and 3's and your scouts are pretty close to the same odds of hitting as a basic marine at least in shooting. WS 3 isn't such a draw back just cause of the way the CC chart shakes out. Once that factors our your still talking about a S 4 T4 SV 4 troop choice....again better than most armies "discount" troop choice.

 

Another tactic would be to run them as reserve units or out flankers in a UM Tigarius list. Since Tiggy can reroll reserve rolls (even successfull ones) it gives you a really good chance to bring your troops on when you want. Now combine that with the UM doctrines and you bump the effectiveness of the scouts up quite a bit.

[minigun762]

What about squads of 10 basic Bolter Scouts with no upgrades?

If we assume that the main focus of Scouts is deployment options and the primary goal of troop squads is to claim objectives, we don't need to invest much to let them do just that.

Deploy however is best depending on the objectives and layout of the board. Stick to cover and focus on getting onto objectives, not engaging the enemy. The lack of heavy or special weapons will keep you focused on the "objective" at hand and not taking pot shots at random targets.

I see two problems with this potentially (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong):

1. You start spending too many points on something that isn't really designed to do anything (If I want a good set-up advantage, I would rather have a tac squad in a rhino or just use Chapter Tactics/characters that let you Scout/Outflank with all of your stuff).

2. ten guys becomes a juicier target for enemies, making them believe that they might as well come get them, denying you linebreaker and scouts tend to get crumped if looked at too harshly in my experience.

I like running the five guys in outflank, because they don't set-up on the board initially and seem non-threatening enough that people don't alter their plans to compensate for when they come in.

I wouldn't say they're not designed to do anything.

They're designed to kill basic infantry, to claim objectives and to threaten backfield shooting units.

This might seem limited but ask yourself how often one of those situations presents itself.

[Scotyknows]

I've been using a 5 man bolter squad in a LSS (against a lot of eldar recently) and I almost always get my points worth out of them.  

 

Depending on the mission you can use them to grab an objective, and push the enemy back liners off them(guardians or rangers), in the later turns by deep strike or outflank(I take camo cloaks and a heavy flamer for that). You can also use them in a kamakazi roll to run up onto a gun battery or destroy tank via deep strike(no cloaks and a multi-melta). A multi melta on a deep striking unit = a dead tank about 50% of the time. And yea if it goes horribly bad, well that was 110 points so no big deal....

 

When they destroy a fire prism on turn 2 and make a unit like striking scorpions or dire avengers turn around and deal with them you can get really good value out of this unit. For me, its been a worth while gamble in all the games I've taken them. 

 

Edit: 1000-1500 pt games

[KhorneHunter57x]

Something else to think about along the lines of Scouts in a Stormraven - due to the changes to Combat Squads, you could buy a ten-man squad, Combat Squad them, put them both in the same Raven, and then drop each now-5 man squad in separate locations.  Sure, only one squad will have the Sergeant, but if these guys are being kept cheap, that shouldn't matter too much.

[WarriorFish]

I like it, the new codex makes them a better choice with their reduced costs. You wouldn't even need to mount them in a LSS either, as larger squads could be effective as support too. I wouldn't run them without upgrades though, so probably either camo cloaks and/or a heavy weapon.

 

The melta bomb Sergeant is a great idea because along with the kraks this cheap and mobile squad can take out armour reliably. I like Azash's Stormraven idea too, good use of their strengths.

[Stickeh]

I've had some success running them in a raven with a combi melta on the sarge and not much else. Cheap scoring unit that can also threaten tanks in a pinch, and as Azash pointed out earlier they're not a huge points sink if the raven nosedives.

[corlinjewell]

What about squads of 10 basic Bolter Scouts with no upgrades?

If we assume that the main focus of Scouts is deployment options and the primary goal of troop squads is to claim objectives, we don't need to invest much to let them do just that.

Deploy however is best depending on the objectives and layout of the board. Stick to cover and focus on getting onto objectives, not engaging the enemy. The lack of heavy or special weapons will keep you focused on the "objective" at hand and not taking pot shots at random targets.

I see two problems with this potentially (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong):

1. You start spending too many points on something that isn't really designed to do anything (If I want a good set-up advantage, I would rather have a tac squad in a rhino or just use Chapter Tactics/characters that let you Scout/Outflank with all of your stuff).

2. ten guys becomes a juicier target for enemies, making them believe that they might as well come get them, denying you linebreaker and scouts tend to get crumped if looked at too harshly in my experience.

I like running the five guys in outflank, because they don't set-up on the board initially and seem non-threatening enough that people don't alter their plans to compensate for when they come in.

I wouldn't say they're not designed to do anything.

They're designed to kill basic infantry, to claim objectives and to threaten backfield shooting units.

This might seem limited but ask yourself how often one of those situations presents itself.

True. I do see your point. Personally though, I still like the mobility a 5 man bolter squad has in an LSS with Outflanking. Being able to move on 12" from a table edge is great, plus you get to fire away with everything you have (even the Cereberus launcher is pretty helpful, I've found). I feel like the 10-man squad you describe can be forced into a sub-optimal deployment considering the 18" away rule from Infiltrate. Outflanking footsloggers will also run into a similar problem if there isn't available cover within 6" of the side they come in on. The LSS will keep them safer from this and give them a better opportunity of making it to cover alive, as scouts in the open are dead meat.

[minigun762]

Oh, I didn't mean to suggest Storms weren't viable. In many ways I think they are the perfect objective taker.

[Atlantic]

I'm running 10 with bolters, camo cloaks, a heavy bolter and a beacon. The unit works great. I also use Imperial Fists chapter tactics.

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

IF tactics do a lot for heavy bolters.

[UltraTacSgt]

I'm running 10 with bolters, camo cloaks, a heavy bolter and a beacon. The unit works great. I also use Imperial Fists chapter tactics.

 

I would love to hear more about how a unit like this unit performs and how you deploy it and use it in your overall strategy.

[Garath]

 !0 scouts with Bolters. Sarge with Melta bombs and perhaps Combi-melta.

 

  Great unit.  You can infiltrate, outflank and claim linebreaker,shoot infantry , use combat squads. For those points , having 10 guys with weapons and all those options is very good indeed.

[Atlantic]

 

I'm running 10 with bolters, camo cloaks, a heavy bolter and a beacon. The unit works great. I also use Imperial Fists chapter tactics.

 

I would love to hear more about how a unit like this unit performs and how you deploy it and use it in your overall strategy.

 

I use them like so!

 

1.  A reliable place to keep a beacon to bring my Terminators in where I want them.  Infiltrating them to the center of the board can be a pretty good tactic, depending on the rest of the table.  Killing scouts in cover is much harder than killing a pod with a beacon.

 

2.  Outflanking into the enemy deployment zone for line breaker.

 

3.  Camping objectives in cover.

 

The damage output on these guys is respectable.  The IF Chapter Tactics helps alot.

[Cornelias]

I'd always include a heavy bolter, they don't cost alot and gives the squad that extra bit of ummfff. I use a squad of 10 with combiplas and HB with a tac squad infiltrated with them (curtsey of Sicarius), pod in an Ironclad and bog standard Dread with MM and HF first turn and you have a whole world of hurt in the enemies side of the table that they have to deal with quickly.