Noctus Cornix Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Hey guys. So with my recent decision to dedicate my Horus Heresy army to the Iron Hands, I've been trying to do as much research on them as I possibly can. That being said, I've found surprisingly little info on their Legion during the Heresy and I don't have access as of yet to Massacre. So, I was simply wondering if any of my brothers here who has massacre could fill me in on any information you have of them. Anything like their basic Legion rules, was there anything unique about their Terran origins? What was their numbers? How were they organized? Any legion specific names and titles? How many went to Istvaan? Does it specifically say who went? How many survived? Any and all help you guys may have for me would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281975-information-on-the-iron-hands-legion/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 There is a thread in the Iron Hands sub forum you should check out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281975-information-on-the-iron-hands-legion/#findComment-3496553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy1391 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 If you wanna do iron hands get massacre! More iron hands fluff then I have ever seen in one place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281975-information-on-the-iron-hands-legion/#findComment-3496636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvilarium Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Hey guys. So with my recent decision to dedicate my Horus Heresy army to the Iron Hands, I've been trying to do as much research on them as I possibly can. That being said, I've found surprisingly little info on their Legion during the Heresy and I don't have access as of yet to Massacre. So, I was simply wondering if any of my brothers here who has massacre could fill me in on any information you have of them. Anything like their basic Legion rules, was there anything unique about their Terran origins? What was their numbers? How were they organized? Any legion specific names and titles? How many went to Istvaan? Does it specifically say who went? How many survived? Any and all help you guys may have for me would be greatly appreciated. Basic Legion rules: I'm pretty sure you can find these if you look around Was there anything unique about their Terran origins? The original Terran Iron Hands were recruited from Old Albia, plus the Qavitine Plate cities, and Solus Stellax. What was their numbers? Approx 113,000 prior to Isstvan V, with a massive amount of Tanks, Artillery and exotic weaponry (Graviton, Conversion Beam & Laser Destroyers). Considered a 'mid-sized' Legion, but highly effective due to their large numbers of Tanks & Artillery. How were they organized? Clans, Orders & Companies. ie 7th Company of Order Quarii, Clan Raukaan. Any legion specific names and titles? Autek Mor (Iron Lord of Clan Morragul). Titles: Iron-Lord, Iron-Captain, Iron-Father, Shield-Centurion, War-Leader, Ironwrought. How many went to Istvaan? Does it specifically say who went? About two thirds of the Legion which were directly under Ferrus' command at the time. However most didn't arrive until after the trap was sprung, were unable to make planetfall and were either obliterated in space or escaped. How many survived? No exact figures, but they had the largest number of survivors compared to the Salamanders & Raven Guard. PS: Buy the Book. It is simply the best Iron Hands resource out there. Well worth the money IMHO. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281975-information-on-the-iron-hands-legion/#findComment-3496790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfroCampbell Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 where are the subforums? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281975-information-on-the-iron-hands-legion/#findComment-3496852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 The subforums are in the Angels of Death forum. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281975-information-on-the-iron-hands-legion/#findComment-3496867 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 On more fluffish terms, were there ever problems with the Legion's way of 'doing things'? Massacres, excessive brutality, etc.? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281975-information-on-the-iron-hands-legion/#findComment-3496874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy1391 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 From what I recall after Mannus was found and moulded the legion to his ways the imperial army didn't really like them all that much, mainly because the Army was thrown into the grinder when alongside the Hands. Ferrus's idea of the great crusade was he would come in and destroy and let those better suited rebuild. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281975-information-on-the-iron-hands-legion/#findComment-3496878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 From the sneak peak in the Forgeworld vids, Autek Mor seemed to be an unsaviory character. He wa one of the first Terrans inducted and by the time Ferrus Manus had been found, he was known for his weaponsmithing. And that he ruled his company with a cruel an unforgiving fist. Mor had also killed several of his brothers in duels over "slights to his honor"(quotation marks are from Forgeworld). He was also suspected not to actually be of X gene-seed, or that his bloodline was also off. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281975-information-on-the-iron-hands-legion/#findComment-3496880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 And he seemed not to like his Primarch that much, adding to that bloodine thing. But Ferrus wasn't an especially likeable character, either. As Jeremy pointed out, I can see Imperial army divisions being lost while marching forward against fortress guns. But I can also imagine what happened to said fortress' occupants. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281975-information-on-the-iron-hands-legion/#findComment-3496885 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassWave Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Iron Hands Resource And he seemed not to like his Primarch that much, adding to that bloodine thing. But Ferrus wasn't an especially likeable character, either. That's only because he's written terribly, which is a shame because he has such great potential to be an amazing character. Besides, screw the meatbag Imperial Army, The maniples of the Legio Cybernetica are where its at! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281975-information-on-the-iron-hands-legion/#findComment-3497765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 He is? I only read him in 'Fulgrim' and 'The First Heretic', and I quite liked the character. He's just incredibly harsh, though that comes from other accounts as well as that novel, so he's hard to empathize with. I meant character as personality, in my previous post. As a character in the literary sense, he's fine, I think, from what little I've read. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281975-information-on-the-iron-hands-legion/#findComment-3497993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Just a quick addage.. does his demeanour point to a likelyhood to turn traitor.. I mean if there are loyalists from traitor legions, we already know there are a few traitor "loyalists" about Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281975-information-on-the-iron-hands-legion/#findComment-3498592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Just a quick addage.. does his demeanour point to a likelyhood to turn traitor.. I mean if there are loyalists from traitor legions, we already know there are a few traitor "loyalists" aboutAutek Mor? I don't think so. He's overly brutal, but I'd say he's loyal through and through. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281975-information-on-the-iron-hands-legion/#findComment-3498598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karthak Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 On more fluffish terms, were there ever problems with the Legion's way of 'doing things'? Massacres, excessive brutality, etc.? Before Ferrus took over, the Tenth showed at least some consideration for the Army troops they were fighting alongside. Afterwards, not so much. Also, Ferrus molded his Legion into a superb fighting force, but his philosophies regarding strength and weakness led to lots of his sons going completely cuckoo after he got killed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281975-information-on-the-iron-hands-legion/#findComment-3498603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 Iron Hands are probably one of the least likely Legions to betray. They follow the will of Ferrus Manus to the letter and scron weakness like no other. Ferrus Manus lost to his father in a duel upon his founding and thus, he sees the Emperor as strong. Like a good cog in the machine, the gear does not questiont he cogitator's motivations. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281975-information-on-the-iron-hands-legion/#findComment-3498606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassWave Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Why would any IH join the side that killed their primarch? I can definitely see some IH attacking loyalists out of anger, especially Ravenguard and Salamanders. Considering a grudge continues on to late in 40k, I'd say the tenth legion was extremely pissed during the heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281975-information-on-the-iron-hands-legion/#findComment-3498842 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Some went the extra mile and simply went rogue. Not traitor, but they left the Legion, viewing Ferrus as weak for going into blind rage (something no machine would do) and the Legion as equally weak for following him against all logic. There's a battle in 'Massacre' in which Ferrus' tactics would make the Night Lords envious. I'm exaggerating a bit, it's normal to go for the strategic assets of a city or fortress, but it's done in such a brutal way you can't help but repeat 'He's a loyalist' in your head just to be sure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281975-information-on-the-iron-hands-legion/#findComment-3499153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Personally (mind you I haven't got Massacre yet) I really like the brutal side of the Hands, especially after Ferrus is decapitated and his hand picked warriors slain or scattered - I can also see exactly why they would harbour anger, even hatred towards the Sallies and RG, after all they didn't risk their lives trying to save Ferrus or help the dying Hands... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281975-information-on-the-iron-hands-legion/#findComment-3499215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 They didn't help because they were already too far and surrounded by the time Ferrus and Fulgrim's duel reached its peak. The Sallies and Ravens had suffered over-the-top losses, there was shortage of ammunition and even melee weapons. The Iron Hands contingent was the star of the loyalist show, no doubt, but somehow they made it with 1000 Termies, 1 Primarch and a whole lot of Mechanicum and tanks, which hints at some lesser resistance. For example, Angron and Mortarion chose to go for the flanks, slaughtering the Raven Guard and the Salamanders, respectively. The Ravens had the added bonus of having to deal with two Legions, the World Eaters and the Sons of Horus, while the Sallies dealt with the Dies Irae with tanks 'only'. Ferrus' stubborness was foolish and cost him his life, most likely, seeing as the other Primarchs made it through, eventually. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281975-information-on-the-iron-hands-legion/#findComment-3499223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 They didn't help because they were already too far and surrounded by the time Ferrus and Fulgrim's duel reached its peak. The Sallies and Ravens had suffered over-the-top losses, there was shortage of ammunition and even melee weapons. The Iron Hands contingent was the star of the loyalist show, no doubt, but somehow they made it with 1000 Termies, 1 Primarch and a whole lot of Mechanicum and tanks, which hints at some lesser resistance. For example, Angron and Mortarion chose to go for the flanks, slaughtering the Raven Guard and the Salamanders, respectively. The Ravens had the added bonus of having to deal with two Legions, the World Eaters and the Sons of Horus, while the Sallies dealt with the Dies Irae with tanks 'only'. Ferrus' stubborness was foolish and cost him his life, most likely, seeing as the other Primarchs made it through, eventually. Think about it from the Iron Hands' point of view Greyall Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281975-information-on-the-iron-hands-legion/#findComment-3499226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Of course, and even from the Sallies' and Ravens' POV I'm sure some of them do wonder if they should've been with the Hands. It's more or less similar to the Massacre survivors: should they have stayed with the rest of their brothers or was it legitimate for them to run to the hills and survive to fight another day? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281975-information-on-the-iron-hands-legion/#findComment-3499228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Yep. That's just how Brother 92 was hitting it from: The RG and Sallies had failed this Legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281975-information-on-the-iron-hands-legion/#findComment-3499233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I know, I was responding more to the 'Hands (heh) than Russ Brother, I find them interesting, but their collective mindset is a bit irritating, they're angered by anger itself. It's their tragedy, I know, it's what makes them characterful. It also gets dreary pretty fast. As far as the HH novels go, though, the Iron Hands I've read about are cool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281975-information-on-the-iron-hands-legion/#findComment-3499241 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotsmasha Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but Ferris Manus is credited for designing Cataphractii terminator armour. Cheers, Jono Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281975-information-on-the-iron-hands-legion/#findComment-3499332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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