Atlantic Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 My buddy and I were trying to figure out whether or not the turret on a storm raven can fire 360 degrees. I think it has a 180 degree arc of fire. What is the verdict and what is the citation? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallodx Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 If I recall right there's a section in BRB stated like if the turret can point at the target, it can shoot that target; if you sticked it fixed that counts front arc 90 degrees, or sentence like that. And in this case storm raven shouldn't be 360' I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corlinjewell Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I'm pretty sure that if the entry states it is a turret-mounted weapon, then it has 360 degree arc. However, it can only go up and down 45 degrees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disruptor_fe404 Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 But the model can't physically fire backwards, there's that intake column in the way. Unless you didn't put that part on, that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 As stated in another thread, which I'm not clever enough to quote properly: The rule is that you point the gun at the target. That's it. The turret/hull mounting rules only come into play when you can't move the gun for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeven Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Storm raven, if built with the inlet, cannot spin 360. It's about 180. The Stormtalon can rotate 360. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Now, what about if you build your stormtalon without the intake? Not in order to model for advantage, but because you (I) think it's derpy? Did you (I) just extend the range of the turret weapon? This game is odd sometimes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Page 72. Built properly, the turret only has about 180 degrees. Built more aesthetically, it's 360. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 On some models, it will actually be impossible to literally move the gun and point it towards the target because of the way the model is assembled or because the gun has been glued in place. In this case players should assume that the guns on a vehicle are free to rotate or swivel on their mountings.The picture "Arc of Sight 4" on the same page shows that a turret is supposed to be able to rotate 360°. so just glue your turret in place to get the full arc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infornography Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 You can't use an example picture as your sole reference. The rules state that the turret can only aim at what it can physically aim at, to claim otherwise is ignorance at best, cheating at worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallodx Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Now, what about if you build your stormtalon without the intake? Not in order to model for advantage, but because you (I) think it's derpy? Did you (I) just extend the range of the turret weapon? This game is odd sometimes... You can, but people will hate you for this, even refuse to play with you, and tourney host don't allow you do this for it's not a completed model. Modeling for advantage does not include incomplete models I believe. Or I can field a army of bases and claim that's whatever I what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Now, what about if you build your stormtalon without the intake? Not in order to model for advantage, but because you (I) think it's derpy? Did you (I) just extend the range of the turret weapon? This game is odd sometimes... You can, but people will hate you for this, even refuse to play with you, and tourney host don't allow you do this for it's not a completed model. Modeling for advantage does not include incomplete models I believe. Or I can field a army of bases and claim that's whatever I what. I've never had this problem - I'll report back if I ever do. I think that most TOs would see that there's a fine line between "this model isn't done and it's ambiguous what it is and what it's kitted out with" and "a relatively unimportant part of the model has been left off for aesthetic reasons, but it's nevertheless clear what the model is and what it does." Anyway, should the moon ever align with Alpha Centauri and I play in a tournament, I'd be happy to mark off the location of the air intake with tape, or something, so it's clear where the turret should stop. If a TO required it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallodx Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I think if a part will stop a turret that is an important part, but yeah report TO to make things clear is always fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 On some models, it will actually be impossible to literally move the gun and point it towards the target because of the way the model is assembled or because the gun has been glued in place. In this case players should assume that the guns on a vehicle are free to rotate or swivel on their mountings. The rules state that the turret can only aim at what it can physically aim at, to claim otherwise is ignorance at best, cheating at worst. The quoted rule seems to say otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infornography Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I meant as opposed to claiming turrets can always rotate 360 degrees regardless of the vehicle obstructing the movement which that rule does not in any way state. I did not mean to imply that if you glued the gun still you were screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molokai Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 To extend on this topic; I've built my stormtalons with the nose mounted assault cannons actually sitting up in the nose itself. I basically left off the entire turret part and glued the guns static in place. So, they're actually sitting a touch higher than if I had of built them as per instructions. I did this purely for aesthetic purposes as I think it looks absolutely deadly like that. Where do I stand? Would you have a problem with this? Would you let me assume the assault cannons can still rotate 360 degrees? The brb says to assume so, although it is ever so slightly modified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I honestly wouldnt care- if thats the kind of thing that gets your undies in a bunch I think you may be playing the wrong game. However, it may be worth mentioning to your opponents your 'cool conversion' and noting how you didnt like the look of the turret, just for in case they arent familiar with the stormravens default setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infornography Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 From my perspective, if you are playing in a competitive environment, don't be surprised if your opponent will want you to treat it as if it's movement were restricted the same as a standard Storm Raven. If you are playing in a non-competitive environment people probably won't care or even notice as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymirl Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 I would suggest using the fire arcs of a standard Unmodified vehicle. Modelling to look cool should be for that, not in game advantage. And I've modified my stormraven to be sleeker with a remote style turret and no air scoop. I have a predator with sponson weapons mounted to the turret and storm talons which sound like Molokai's as I thought the giant turret box looked stupid too! But this is for my own amusement, I wouldn't consider them to make any advantage, or particular disadvantage when playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 The top turret is 360 fire. Its the rules for turrets, doesnt matter if the model doesn't look like it can. Technically, the hurricane bolters can't fire forwards but of course we use them that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Technically, the hurricane bolters can't fire forwards but of course we use them that way.Why not? Both the model and the rules say sponson mounted weapons can fire forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Because the model is badly designed and it would shoot itself lol I'm just illustrating that we shouldn't put too much stock in what the model physically can or can't do. The top turret can't actually rotate 360 but the rules for a turret allow it to fire in any direction... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Ah I see it now. Pointed straight ahead the lowest bolters would just barely graze the housing of the thrusters. I thought they would shoot over the housings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymirl Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Sorry Ishagu you're totally wrong. if you read page 72 of the main rule book you'll see it clearly states in bold text that you need to trace LOS to see if its blocked by terrain or models. The storm raven is a model, it can't shoot through itself obviously. The pictures are examples, see how the predator has different sponsons to the leman russ? That's because they're following the rules about their available fire arcs. Nothing states these pretty pictures overwrite the paragraph of rules. Your hurricane bolters are mostly fine though, they fire as a single weapon (page 121 c:sm) so LOS is easily gained when shooting forwards unless you get too close in which case you may well be obscured by badly placed thruster mounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted October 22, 2013 Author Share Posted October 22, 2013 There is actually a much bigger problem with the Storm Raven. The rules for shooting are based on tanks, not flyers. It can't hit anything on the ground with the Turret on top as you only get to raise the gun 45 degrees if following RAW. Also, if you can indeed lower them 45 degrees, you have to be 8-10 inches out depending on the target for LOS to work out. The entire model is a mess. I don' think it is a coincidence that when they made the storm talon, the gun is on the bottom of the vehicle.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.