GhostMalone Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I've noticed that the emperor has many similarities with a deamon prince, he's classified as a psyker and perpetual I know but just think on it for a second. He has a true name he's immortal he's been around for over 40000+ years he can re incarnate after his death. He knows the true name of genghis khan who become a deamon prince, he's more potent with his abilities in every aspect he's not limited to one form of psyker ability. We've had Malal as a renegade minor god, could it be the emperor was truly a deamon prince/ minor god in mortal form? We've seen that he was created from the sacrafice of the ancient eart shamans. When a person offers worthy enough sacrafice she can ascend to deamon hood. He is a master of technology and warp magic, he understands the use of hexagramic warding the true nature if chaos and somehow has never fallen or submitted or attempted to use chaos... Seems to me he has more in common with a deamon prince then a perpetual, a perpetual can be created under the right circumstances but the emperor surpasses any pariah or perpetual Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282090-the-emperor-deamon-prince-or-perpetual/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyMonkey Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 He's a daemon prince in the strictest sense that he's a powerful warp entity. He's not a daemon prince in the sense that' he's a daemon. There is no doubt in my mind that he is a daemon prince, if not an outright god, of order, for lack of a better term. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282090-the-emperor-deamon-prince-or-perpetual/#findComment-3499025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazorDaemon Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 You....you...http://www.butnotyet.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Heresy-Stamp.png Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282090-the-emperor-deamon-prince-or-perpetual/#findComment-3499026 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Unmarked by Dan Abnett, in the Mark of Calth answers this conclusively. The Emperor is a Perpetual. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282090-the-emperor-deamon-prince-or-perpetual/#findComment-3499030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MordentHex Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 SO much blasphemy!! I like it! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282090-the-emperor-deamon-prince-or-perpetual/#findComment-3499033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted October 18, 2013 Author Share Posted October 18, 2013 I know but the story still doesn't have me completely convinced, as I know this is old fluff but the emperor made a deal with chaos which helped him create the primarchs, now other then those of their own kind how can a man...psyker...perpetual directly have contact with all 4 gods. Hell even lorgar didn't get to speak with them directly Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282090-the-emperor-deamon-prince-or-perpetual/#findComment-3499036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakuth Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Unmarked by Dan Abnett, in the Mark of Calth answers this conclusively. The Emperor is a Perpetual. This. He is a perpetual that was created by the coming together of the souls of many ancient earth shamans (shamen?). While he may share some qualities with daemon princes he is, ultimately, still human. An extremely powerful human, but one none the less. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282090-the-emperor-deamon-prince-or-perpetual/#findComment-3499039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I know but the story still doesn't have me completely convinced, as I know this is old fluff but the emperor made a deal with chaos which helped him create the primarchs, now other then those of their own kind how can a man...psyker...perpetual directly have contact with all 4 gods. Hell even lorgar didn't get to speak with them directly True but a great champion named Arguleon Veq(Daemonworld by Ben Counter) actually was in the courts of the 4 gods on a regular basis. Although there is still the question of just what the heck is a perpetual. Other than they are humans with the ability to reincarnate, we don't know that much about them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282090-the-emperor-deamon-prince-or-perpetual/#findComment-3499046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adra'Melek Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I know but the story still doesn't have me completely convinced, as I know this is old fluff but the emperor made a deal with chaos which helped him create the primarchs, now other then those of their own kind how can a man...psyker...perpetual directly have contact with all 4 gods. Hell even lorgar didn't get to speak with them directly Correct me if I'm wrong but the 'old' fluff (Realms of Chaos) had the Emperor useing pure warp energy to make the primarchs. Unsullied by the chaos powers. The deal with chaos comes from daemons doesn't it? What exactly is a daemon prince? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282090-the-emperor-deamon-prince-or-perpetual/#findComment-3499048 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 A Daemon Prince is an entity that begins as a mortal (i.e. of the Materium) and accumulates Warp power, more than just psyker boosting and from what I have seen directly related to the favor born this entity by one or more of the Chaos Gods, and survive the process without degenerating into Chaos Spawn, becoming an extension and pawn of one or more of the Chaos gods. The Emperor is none of these things. He is, however, of greater or comparable capabilities. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282090-the-emperor-deamon-prince-or-perpetual/#findComment-3499062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adra'Melek Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 A daemon prince is also a daemon, right? It no longer has a true physical presence. I like the idea that one lump of clumpy warp energy (say Khorne) can give a bit of itself to someone else to make a daemon prince. If the shaman thing is still 'true' then it's certainly analogous to a daemon prince as they gave up their warp presence to the Emperor. But that was many giving to one rather than one giving to many. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282090-the-emperor-deamon-prince-or-perpetual/#findComment-3499071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 No, the Emperor is the collective thoughts of a multiple of souls formed into one being. He is actually closer to being a "god" of the warp than an actual daemon prince as his entire nature and being is artificially created with the sole purpose of steering humanity forward. That's why calling him the literal personification of Humanity isn't wrong. But, he's also a Perpetual, whose very nature indicates mortality, just mortality that can be renewed at death. So he is a warp entity, but isn't a warp entity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282090-the-emperor-deamon-prince-or-perpetual/#findComment-3499075 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakuth Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Keep in mind that the shamans did not 'give' their warp essense/life force/souls to The Emperor, they joined their warp essences/life force/souls to become The Emperor. So this process is not quite an analogue of the process whereby a mortal achieves daemonhood. EDIT: Ninja'd by Kol. Those Night Lords really are sneaky! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282090-the-emperor-deamon-prince-or-perpetual/#findComment-3499076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 It is a Daemon, but it starts mortal. If it started Daemon, we'd be calling it a Greater Daemon. Anyone ever play Final Fantasy VII? Take away the deliberate will of the shamans, and you got a birth that is the exact same as every other living thing on that world. Well, barring the villainous momma's boy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282090-the-emperor-deamon-prince-or-perpetual/#findComment-3499077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 It's important to remember that the Warp as we know it is not the Warp as it was meant to be. The Slaan Old Ones corrupted the Warp when they tried to weaponize it in their battle against the C'Tan. You could argue that the Emperor is, ultimately, an "untainted" Warp god, more akin to Khaine or Cegorach than Nurgle or Tzeentch. He is a being of the warp - currently entangled in mortal flesh, yes - a being of passion and focussed thought, but not mad and self-destructive. One popular theory about the Heresy is that the Emperor had turned his back on humanity because he was trying to abandon the flesh and become a god in truth. The Astartes - who had begun to encounter the horrors of the Warp - misunderstood this and feared that the Emperor was trying to become a monster, which is part of why they turned against him. They didn't know that it was possible to be both a god in the Empyrean and not an insane force for destruction. Remember: when the Eldar call the Emperor the Corpse-God, they don't mean it with mockery, the way the scions of Chaos do. They mean it as a term of respect. Not "the god who is dead and can't really help you because he's dead, you idiot," but "the living material god that has a corpselike aspect as a way of expressing its nature." Both interpretations are equally wrong, of course, but for different reasons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282090-the-emperor-deamon-prince-or-perpetual/#findComment-3499084 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I know but the story still doesn't have me completely convinced, as I know this is old fluff but the emperor made a deal with chaos which helped him create the primarchs, now other then those of their own kind how can a man...psyker...perpetual directly have contact with all 4 gods. Hell even lorgar didn't get to speak with them directly True but a great champion named Arguleon Veq(Daemonworld by Ben Counter) actually was in the courts of the 4 gods on a regular basis. Although there is still the question of just what the heck is a perpetual. Other than they are humans with the ability to reincarnate, we don't know that much about them. I've been saying that the Emperor and the other Perpetuals are the Slann, for years now. I have yet to get anyone to believe me but I think I have been backed up in a major way in the book, the Unremembered Empire. The Word Bearers, Narek is talking to the Perpetual, John Gramaticus. pg 252 "I'm just a agent for -' 'You are a Perpetual' John faltered. 'I-' 'So old, so rare, so forgotten. You are the legend of a legend. The muth of a myth. But the Word Bearers are the keepers of the word and the lore, and in our histories are even the ghosts of myths remembered... the old ones. The long-lived ones. The eternal kind. The first and last. The Perpetuals.' 'It's more complicated then that,' said John, 'a lot more complicated than that in my case. I-' 'The details don't matter' said Narek. 'I know what a Perpetual is capable of. I understand. After all, we are all proof of what the oldest and most powerful Perpetual can do.' 'What is that?' 'Build a Imperium.' John let his head drop and exhaled slowly" The key phrase is " the Old Ones". If Narek is right, then so am I, Here is a link to the Lexicanum write up on them which is pretty good. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Old_Ones#.UmDawHfn_cs People are not going to like this but.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282090-the-emperor-deamon-prince-or-perpetual/#findComment-3499087 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Ehhh. He's clearly waxing poetical there. To be perfectly honest, and I don't mean this as a personal insult to you Walkier at all, but if that ended up being true it'd quite possibly be the stupidest fluff that Warhammer could come up with. Thankfully Vulkan disproves it, just by being. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282090-the-emperor-deamon-prince-or-perpetual/#findComment-3499090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Ehhh. He's clearly waxing poetical there. To be perfectly honest, and I don't mean this as a personal insult to you Walkier at all, but if that ended up being true... It's not true. Saying that, though. Maybe I'm wrong. I still refer to Blood Angel Orange as a colour, after all. Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282090-the-emperor-deamon-prince-or-perpetual/#findComment-3499095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adra'Melek Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Are the Sensei still out and about or are they completely gone now? Immortal offspring of the Emperor able to access pure warp energy. Or in fact the Illuminati, organisation of people who have cast out daemons they were possessed by and now fight Chaos? I do love the Realms of Chaos. They were one of the first things I read on Warhammer and I'd love to start up a chaos/renegade war and again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282090-the-emperor-deamon-prince-or-perpetual/#findComment-3499098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMan Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 *BRSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHKKKK* http://images.wikia.com/aliens/images/0/0b/Hypnotoad.gif ITS NOT TRUE Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282090-the-emperor-deamon-prince-or-perpetual/#findComment-3499099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Ehhh. He's clearly waxing poetical there. To be perfectly honest, and I don't mean this as a personal insult to you Walkier at all, but if that ended up being true... It's not true. Saying that, though. Maybe I'm wrong. I still refer to Blood Angel Orange as a colour, after all. Heresy. Ouch! Once again A D-B swoops in to layeth the smack down on one of my Canya$$ ideas. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282090-the-emperor-deamon-prince-or-perpetual/#findComment-3499103 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 The Slann do exist(or did) in 40K however. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Slann#.UmDo2Jm9Kc0 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282090-the-emperor-deamon-prince-or-perpetual/#findComment-3499113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopkins Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 if the big E is a daemon prince *scars spoiler incoming* magnus knows his real name Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282090-the-emperor-deamon-prince-or-perpetual/#findComment-3499132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 if the big E is a daemon prince *scars spoiler incoming* magnus knows his real name his name is Tim - everyone knows that Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282090-the-emperor-deamon-prince-or-perpetual/#findComment-3499145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valearx Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Got to say that the introduction of the Perpetual concept has been one of my favourite additions to the fluff to date. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282090-the-emperor-deamon-prince-or-perpetual/#findComment-3499155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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