The emperor.... Deamon prince or perpetual?

[Warpedpath]

if the big E is a daemon prince

 

*scars spoiler incoming*

 

 

magnus knows his real name

 

I do too... its: Bob... :D

[Valearx]

Greham'Dan-Abn'ett Bowski-Dem'McNeill

[Kol Saresk]

I was told his true name was Lucy.........

[Greyall]

If anything, his power level would make him a Chaos God. And as far as I know, saying their name does nothing but please them.

[Kol Saresk]

Yeah, technically everything has a true name and not all daemon princes make an effort to hide their names. For every M'Kar, there is also a Krieg Acerbus.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

I'm confused, as to if the Emperor had enough juice to waste Horus possessed by all the chaos gods in the material realm, would that mean he would be able to in the warp? ( I assume not as he would of done it long ago i assume)

 

So when in the warp/on their turf, is he an equal or lesser?

[Greyall]

He's at least an equal. There were accounts (though it's previous/old fluff) that the Chaos Gods were unable to bypass the Emperor's presence in the Warp and had to resort to underhanded tactics, but this could be propaganda and underhanded tactics are the Chaos Gods' thing anyway.

 

More revealling is the mention (in the 40K rulebook) that the Emperor's presence in the Warp has kept Chaos' influence at bay, allowing for mankind to have a chance and (supposedly) being the explanation for Living Saints and such phenomenons.

[Vesper]

I'm confused, as to if the Emperor had enough juice to waste Horus possessed by all the chaos gods in the material realm, would that mean he would be able to in the warp? ( I assume not as he would of done it long ago i assume)

 

So when in the warp/on their turf, is he an equal or lesser?

 

 

 

 

He's at least an equal. There were accounts (though it's previous/old

fluff) that the Chaos Gods were unable to bypass the Emperor's presence

in the Warp and had to resort to underhanded tactics, but this could be

propaganda and underhanded tactics are the Chaos Gods' thing anyway.

 

Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but...

 

"Even the Golden Throne cannot keep the cells of the Emperor's dead body alive forever. Over the millennia the link between his soul and body has become increasingly tenuous. Worse of all, the Powers of Chaos have begun to infiltrate his mind, sowing seeds of doubt, dissolution and fear. It is impossible to say for how long the Emperor can survive in this condition. It is unlikely that even he really knows how much time is left to him before the tenuous hold upon his physical body is broken by weakness or finally rent apart by insanity."

 

Realm of Chaos : The Lost and the Damned - page 185

[Brother Aiwass]

I love that bit. Thank you so much :D

[Greyall]

Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but...

 

"Even the Golden Throne cannot keep the cells of the Emperor's dead body alive forever. Over the millennia the link between his soul and body has become increasingly tenuous. Worse of all, the Powers of Chaos have begun to infiltrate his mind, sowing seeds of doubt, dissolution and fear. It is impossible to say for how long the Emperor can survive in this condition. It is unlikely that even he really knows how much time is left to him before the tenuous hold upon his physical body is broken by weakness or finally rent apart by insanity."

 

Realm of Chaos : The Lost and the Damned - page 185

 

Well, that may also be propaganda on the Chaos side. The truth may lie somewhere between the two - or neither, the Emperor nothing more than a dead corpse serving as a psyker-powered lightbulb.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

There may be some confusing the Big E post and pre heresy.

 

Post-Heresy, imho, he becomes a God. He's worshipped by the ENTIRE human race and we know that such things have an effect on the warp. It's my understanding that he has become a warp god, NOT a chaos god, but something like the laughing God or Mork (possibly Gork).

 

Pre-heresy he's the single most powerful Human psyker and possibly a perpetual. Bear in mind, for all his power, he only BARELY took down Horus and it crippled him.

[Emperor's Furor]

I think the Eldar indicate he's a perpetual in their dealings with John Grammaticus a lot.

[Greyall]

Also, his difficulties in taking down Horus are related to his incapacity to shoot the traitor bastard right in the face, as he had a hard time doing so to his favourite son.

 

Makes you think of how bad the two lost Primarch must've screwed to be ordered dead. I'm thinking they probably ate the Imperial Puppy.

[jeremy1391]

There may be some confusing the Big E post and pre heresy.

 

Post-Heresy, imho, he becomes a God. He's worshipped by the ENTIRE human race and we know that such things have an effect on the warp. It's my understanding that he has become a warp god, NOT a chaos god, but something like the laughing God or Mork (possibly Gork).

 

Pre-heresy he's the single most powerful Human psyker and possibly a perpetual. Bear in mind, for all his power, he only BARELY took down Horus and it crippled him.

I agree with your first point, however Big E mind popped Horus in the blink of an eye when he truly realized how far his son had fallen, and in Horus's final moment it was written that Horus had realized how wrong he was and the emperor destroyed him at the moment the Big 4 took their favor from the warmaster.

 

So blinking someone to death I wouldn't say is barely winning.

[Emperor's Furor]

There may be some confusing the Big E post and pre heresy.

 

Post-Heresy, imho, he becomes a God. He's worshipped by the ENTIRE human race and we know that such things have an effect on the warp. It's my understanding that he has become a warp god, NOT a chaos god, but something like the laughing God or Mork (possibly Gork).

 

Pre-heresy he's the single most powerful Human psyker and possibly a perpetual. Bear in mind, for all his power, he only BARELY took down Horus and it crippled him.

Yeah imo he has to of become a god, it's the best way to explain saints and other things like the sanguinor imo.

[Vesper]

 

Post-Heresy, imho, he becomes a God. He's worshipped by the ENTIRE human race and we know that such things have an effect on the warp. It's my understanding that he has become a warp god, NOT a chaos god, but something like the laughing God or Mork (possibly Gork).

I don't think it works that way.

Gods are gods, the emperor is more akin to a mutant in that regard. Psyker Alpha, Perpetual, old shaman juice, whatever. He made pretty clear he isn't a god.

 

After 10k, I think the Imperium really has no idea who the emperor was, what he did and what he said. The super grimdark truth is that the imperial faith is propably feeding Tzeentch, as that perticular Warp god feeds on hope.

 

Just because the imperium's church says he's a god would hint us he's most likely not.

[Greyall]

Not saying Tzeentch doesn't get a slice, but that comes with existence. A plotting Inquisitor feeds Tzeentch, as well, most likely, and the second he plunges his sword into a heretic, it's Khorne who gets a candy.

 

But yeah, things like the Legion of the Damned, Saints and Sanguinor hint towards a pro-Imperium presence in the Warp.

[Emperor's Furor]

Emotions coagulate in the warp though and the chaos gods feed off emotion. just as how Slaanesh came into being. So devoting your self to the Emperor and praising his name on a massive scale could reach an pinnacle point where he bursts out into being a god. He might not be there yet I guess but really really close to it, so much so he can empower his subjects with power to form saints etc.

[Vesper]

The imperium doesn't exist in the Warp. Mankind does.

And I know of a few Warp gods that like to reward those who feed them with power. You know, just slay a bunch of Sisters of Battle and who knows, maybe it could please someone in the immaterium.

The Chaos gods don't mind about your allegiance.

Legions of the Damned, Saints and Sanguinor could very well be favoured by Chaos. Regardless of the fact that they fight agaist Chaos. Because that's what Chaos actually does. In that, it mirrors Mankind.

 

 

So devoting your self to the Emperor and praising his name on a massive
scale could reach an pinnacle point where he bursts out into being a
god.

What is the emperor ? Who is he ? Do you even represent him well ? Do you picture him as a god of war ? A great politician of a long past golden age ?

You think that by adressing your prayer to a concept that keeps shifting as monks and inquisitors keep debating on it (much like the gender of angels) and considering the perticularities of your local believes on the dude, it goes right to his warp-belly without being eaten up by the damn Warp gods ?

That's kinda naive.

[ElectricPaladin]

Regarding the Emperor = Slaan = Old One thing, one possible interpretation of that text is not that the human perpetuals are literally the same as those alien Old Ones, but rather that they represent the same thing: the ultimate, eternal, psychically powerful evolutionary form of their race. So it's not, "you're one of them" in the sense that "you are secretly an alien" but rather "you are to us what they were to whatever came before them."

 

This could make sense. Chaos doesn't want material beings to achieve their ultimate potential, because that would make them too independent from the worship-hungry gods. Think about it: Chaos doesn't like Orks because the Orks don't need Chaos, despite being pretty damn chaotic. Chaos doesn't seem very afraid of the Eldar because the Eldar already screwed up. Their ultimate evolution is stymied by the fact that one of the Chaos Gods has a lien on their souls and their non-Chaos gods are all (almost all) dead (or very much like it).

 

But humans are still dangerous because we haven't failed yet. Nobody has a claim on our souls. Our god still exists, albeit trapped in a dying form. We could still turn everything on its head.

[Vesper]

 

Chaos doesn't like Orks because the Orks don't need Chaos, despite being pretty damn chaotic.

The Chaos gods seem pretty fond of the Orks actually.

Khorne has his own pet Orks in his fortress, and we know Chaos Orks are a thing in the Galaxy.

[Kol Saresk]

Regarding the Emperor = Slaan = Old One thing, one possible interpretation of that text is not that the human perpetuals are literally the same as those alien Old Ones, but rather that they represent the same thing: the ultimate, eternal, psychically powerful evolutionary form of their race. So it's not, "you're one of them" in the sense that "you are secretly an alien" but rather "you are to us what they were to whatever came before them."

 

This could make sense. Chaos doesn't want material beings to achieve their ultimate potential, because that would make them too independent from the worship-hungry gods. Think about it: Chaos doesn't like Orks because the Orks don't need Chaos, despite being pretty damn chaotic. Chaos doesn't seem very afraid of the Eldar because the Eldar already screwed up. Their ultimate evolution is stymied by the fact that one of the Chaos Gods has a lien on their souls and their non-Chaos gods are all (almost all) dead (or very much like it).

 

But humans are still dangerous because we haven't failed yet. Nobody has a claim on our souls. Our god still exists, albeit trapped in a dying form. We could still turn everything on its head.

Or it's a reference to the fact that the Perpetuals are literally old. By 30K, the Emperor is at least 40,000 years old. Oll Persson has been around for almost as long. Don't know about Damon, but he's been around since at least the 1960's. John Grammaticus and Cyrene are the youngest, and John has been around since the Unification Wars, back when the Thunder Warriors were a thing. Cyrene is only like 60 or 70-ish. They are literally old ones, not Old Ones.

[Greyall]

@Vesper: Ultimately, you can blame every Imperial victory on Tzeentch, of course, or on Khorne wishing for another battle (unlikely). Of course in these (40K) looney times you aren't necessarily wrong. But neither are those who say the Emperor has a stupidly powerful presence in the Warp and is capable of blessing his subjects.

[Vesper]

Well, to me that would go against the quote I provided earlier. And also to the nature of the Warp as I get it.

But I respect everyone's opinion. Truth is, we lack the information to trully know what's up. We can only infere how things work (and it is likely our questions will be left unanswered). It is the way the background works, after all.

[Felix Antipodes]

Just to throw a bit of conspiracy theory into the mix: If the Emperor is a Perpetual is the Golden Throne a life saver or a very successful trap? Has it maintained him on the edge of death for 10000 years in an effort to sustain the Imperium or is its purpose been altered to prevent his death and subsequent rebirth?

 

If the Golden Throne is failing (as hinted in recent fluff) we may get a different result than we have imagined.