Attack bike discussion

[hardimanm]

So as some of you know my Dark Angels Ravenwing started as a White Scar army from the Adeptus Astartes articles in White Dwarf over ten years go.  So i still have attack bikes from that starting list so long ago.  Back then they were still attached to the bike squads or you could have 1-3 in a squad as a heavy.

 

Now with the Ravenwing list this has changed.  They can only be fielded as troop/fast choice and only as a single model.  

 

So given this I would like to start a discussion about the uses, benefits, and short comings of this unit.

 

 

As for me I'm torn.  I love the look of this unit but i am starting to loose faith in it on the battle field.  If you start them off on the table they scream to your opponent "KILL ME!!!  FIRST BLOOD".  This has me keeping them in reserves now.  Another downfall is they give up kill points in those missions.  I am also questioning how useful is a single heavy bolter in a ravenwing army.

 

One good point i have with this unit is, since i usually reserve it and it is it's own unit, allowing it to stay near the back of the army and camping it on objectives as the rest of the army sweeps on to engage the enemy.

 

I could use some feedback.  How are others using it and any good comments

[JJD]

It does seem odd that the attack bike has to be combat squaded out of the bike unit as a lone model.

[Brother Moridius]

Well in my opinion the heavy bolter attack bike is pretty useless. I run tornado landspeeders with hb/ac and they do the heavy lifting thinning out hordes. Now the MM AB is another story, yes it will give up first blood really easily but it also delivers a MM to the back of a tank within the 12" melta range very easily. For a 55 point model to take out big tanks or insta death an important character is worth it in my opinion. The one thing Ive learned though is to make sure to send 2 after anything you want dead, otherwise that MM will miss and youre relying on a krak grenade.

[Centurio]

I only use MM attack bikes and outflank them. This means the enemy is forced to keep their armor near the middle of the table or risk having them blown up.

[Centurio]

Also they are scoring and can hide well, and be a general nuisance. They have the bolters as well as grenades if you want to put a few extra hits on infantry.

[FarFromSam]

I think our biggest strength this edition is the number of scoring units we have. This is just another way we can swarm the board with bodies that can win games.  Buuuuut I don't field more than two usually, soooo I don't mind putting 110 points in reserve to outflank.  

[Brother dean]

I always seem to lose other things to First Blood.  Things like Vindicators, Dark Shrouds. (always deploy in cover kids...)  Now the Kill Points is a valid problem and I am thinking you just have to use them smart and use cover and other buffs the best you can to keep them alive.  Also they come with homers so you can call backup of DW termies in if you need it.

 

MM attack bikes go after tanks.  I run mine in a pair and go tank hunting, since they aren't a squadron they can shoot at more than one unit and any incoming wounds do not jump from one bike to another and one might survive.  You have plenty of horde control in other units.

 

If you have more attack bikes than you can use in a DA detachment, Ally some White Scars in and run them as a squadron.

[Master Avoghai]

I'm with farfromsam on this one.

 

I love keeping a MM in reserve and send it in the back of the enemy to maintain a pressure.

He has the choice between turning his weapon to hit or risk to use a well hidden tank/character.

 

Moreover, you can still hide it during the game and zoom out 24" the last turn to grab an objective or prevent the opponent to get one.

 

But of course, you don't need more than 2 and they MUST have a MM

[InstantKarma]

I'm with farfromsam on this one.

 

I love keeping a MM in reserve and send it in the back of the enemy to maintain a pressure.

He has the choice between turning his weapon to hit or risk to use a well hidden tank/character.

 

Moreover, you can still hide it during the game and zoom out 24" the last turn to grab an objective or prevent the opponent to get one.

 

But of course, you don't need more than 2 and they MUST have a MM

 

Growing consensus it seems. 

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Throw my hat in the ring of needing two and usually Outflanking. Most Attack Bikes don't get scout so they can't outflank so might as well use it. And as its been stated the enemy has to honor the damn threat or get smoked in which case 110 pts just cooked a Land Raider or something else essential. One or two times I've played huge games with plenty of cover where they were barely even looked at and they end up being the stars of the game. One Multi Melta to the Face for a Chapter Master and two Land Raiders as smoking holes later along with about six dead rhinos left me quite happy.

 

DoC

[SvenONE]

Well you've certainly hit the nail on the head about the FB/Easy KP.  There are two [three] scenarios I see when it comes to MMAB:

 

1) You have first turn

2) You don't have first turn

3) You were seized

 

In case 1, you are more likely inclined to deploy first, scout the flock up MMABs included, move your 12" and just let loose, I'd say that you have a REALLY good chance of scoring first blood in that scenario.

 

In case 2, you probably (like others have said) just want to deploy them in reserve, scout, and pump melta up some vehicle's rear or side armor more often than not this is the safest and still rewarding move.  An alternative view is to obviously deploy them and NOT scout them forcing shots into your attack squads, or scouting them like I do.  When I field a Darkshroud I will deploy and scout my whole armor with some MMABs nearby.  You also have the advantage of deploying them out of harms way.  If your opponent put his armor right up front, lay those MMABs in front next to the DS and force him to shoot at them.  Personally, if the MMAB is taking all that fire I'm ok with that.  In a KP game, I'd rather have an opponent directing fire to overkill a unit rather than at my bikes or Black Knights or HQ, because quite honestly my movement turn is going to finish at their deployment edge, most of my melta guns will be in range to destroy armor, and I'll most likely charge with Sammael and some black knights and tear some fools up, it's the trade off, but I think it's a fair one.

 

In case 3, there's not much you can do other than hope for the best and adapt, you might give up a KP, but you can't be upset over the dice, that's what they do!

 

In all cases, I think the thing about an AB is that while you're spending your points on an AB, your opponent is most likely designating way more points of shooting in a turn to kill it.  In the end if you're really concerned about the KP, you can just as easily run a bike army as WS.  They're virtually the same army (when it comes to bikes).

[twopounder]

You're only looking at their downsides. Though the heavy bolter is useless outside of a full squad, which we don't get.

 

1) Outflanking multi-meltas. Enough said.

2) An extra scoring unit

3) They have 2 wounds at T5, which makes them shrug off missile launchers and lascannons, especially with a cover save.

4) They can run behind the bike squadron for a cover save, but still go after MC's/vehicles without given them a cover save (as long as they're tall enough).

 

It scares the bejeezus out of your opponent with 3 - 4 bike mounted multi-meltas roll onto the table. 

[march10k]

I'm not sold on the KP thing....you probably blow up a tank, and then you probably get killed...that's a 1:1 kill point trade, but the tank you just killed had enormous potential to harvest multiple kill points and cost 3x as much as the attack bike.  Statistically, you break even if the attack bike succeeds 2/5 of the time, taking into account the chance of dying before striking (includes whiffing as not attacking), the relative value of the bike and a leman russ, both in destructive potential and points cost, and of course the chance of killing the tank and living to tell the tale.  Unless my AB's target is in the heart of an enemy line (I tend to send it up a flank), it usually survives if it kills its target, and if it doesn't kill its target, it is killed by its target, not by other enemy units. 

[facmanpob]

 

 

I'm with farfromsam on this one.

 

I love keeping a MM in reserve and send it in the back of the enemy to maintain a pressure.

He has the choice between turning his weapon to hit or risk to use a well hidden tank/character.

 

Moreover, you can still hide it during the game and zoom out 24" the last turn to grab an objective or prevent the opponent to get one.

 

But of course, you don't need more than 2 and they MUST have a MM

Growing consensus it seems.

Not with me. My standard line up has 2 MMAB and 1 HBAB, all starting in reserve. The MMABs outflank and the HBAB stays in normal reserve to hold an objective and plink away at long range. At 45pts it's one of the cheapest scoring units in the game, and so long as it remains low in the threat register it usually survives. This allows my bikes and MMABs to be aggressive.

[march10k]

I agree with Mr. Pob.  45 points is about the price of one terminator.  T5, 2 wounds, M12/24, 5 shots, and the same potential for scoring status that termies have?  The HBAB is Ridiculously Good for the points.  The 55 point version is better, sure, but if I have 53 points left, I'll take a HBAB and not look back.  It drives me crazy to hear people say that it's worthless, horrible, and whatnot.  That comes from the mentality of "if there's a better option, then it's automatically a worse choice than a devastator squad with no heavy weapons."  Just because the MMAB is better doesn't mean the HBAB is bad...it's actually awesome...just not as awesome as the upgraded version.

[Master Avoghai]

Sure but if you build a list, you try to build the best list and when you have the choice between something good and something very good then you take the very good....

[march10k]

Naturally...and if you have, as I said, 53 points left, you take the "good" without complaining that you were 2 points short of being able to afford "very good."  Based on the HBAB bashing in this thread, you'd think that you're better off with no attack bike at all if you can only fit the HB into your list.

[twopounder]

I run a list that is generally

 

1 MotRW Sable Claw

 

2x 3 man bike squads w/2 flamers + 2 AB w/MM

2x 3 man bike squads w/2 melta-guns + 2 AB w/MM

2x 3 man bike squads w/2 plasma guns + 2 AB w/MM

 

I change up support units as needed. Sometimes devestators, or whirlwinds, or land speeders, or a librarian - whatever I feel like running that day. I have a consistent win record with them and I've managed to table armies. It comes out to 12 scoring units that can move up to 18" in a turn. 

 

I'm working on black knight conversions and flyers (that are useful), so I can add those, but the attack bikes really put the hurt on. I have failed before with 4 outflanking attack bikes (every one of them missed). It happens, but overall, it's has a huge psychological effect on your opponent when bikes start swarming in from the sides.