Drop Pod Troop loadouts

[minigun762]

What works and what doesn't?

Is it the same logic as a Rhino squad or do you focus more on short range?

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

Do you mean what kind of squad goes in one or how to equip the pod itself?

 

Pods provide superior initial deployment and protection from fire at the expense of subsequent mobility and a lack of precision.

 

Pods are taller and that helps with blocking LOS.  Pods also can carry locator beacons; Rhinos can't.

[minigun762]

Do you mean what kind of squad goes in one or how to equip the pod itself?

 

The squad itself.

Much of the discussion I've seen focuses on units like Sternguard, but not troop choices.

[ElectricPaladin]

The trouble with putting a Troops choice in a drop pod is that now you've got a scoring unit way out in the middle of enemy territory, sitting on prime real estate (ie. an objective). It's going to get pasted. If you want to put Troops in drop pods, you need to go balls-out. You need to have Troops in drop pods and tastier stuff to support them and draw fire. The reason you see more discussion of Elites and Heavy Support models in drop pods is that it's easier to pepper those into a list. I mean, come on - what list doesn't love a drop dread, or some fire-themed sternguard vets to pop out and toast something hiding in cover? Something nasty, aggressive, and expendable (as long as it makes its points back).

 

But Troops? That means that everything but your tanks has got to be in drop pods, too. Otherwise you're hanging them out to dry.

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

I'm going to ignore the option to just take the pod to have an empty pod so as to load up the first wave.

 

I don't use many drop pods, personally, and I like putting Ironclads in them when/if I do.  But as far as troops, only tacticals can get pods.  With that in mind, it occurs to me that you would only be podding them in in a few situations:  1) to block enemy movement;  2) to claim an objective; or 3 ) to prevent them from being shot at for a turn or two.  

 

You can pod things in to get them right in the enemy's grill, but I don't think you'd be doing that as much with tacticals since they aren't really assault troops or super bad-ass shooty troops (like say Sternguard).  Nor are they the best sacrificial troops to get that one thing you absolutely must get ASAP.  So while pods can be used aggressively early in the game to put nasty things in point blank range, that's not how I see using tacticals in pods.  In fact the ONLY reason I see to drop pods with tacticals on T1 is to keep something else in reserve longer.  Otherwise, in almost any other scenario if you had tacticals in the pods, you'd want them to not come in until T4 (barring the Relic and maybe even then).  You do this because you want to protect them and optimize your chances of using them as scoring units by reducing the number of turns the enemy has to shoot at them.  What does that mean for how to load them out?

 

I think it means that you want to leave the heavy weapons at home.  First off, you'd want the heavy weapons on the table to shoot in T1.  Even if you put one on a tac squad and podded it in in T1, it still counts as moving that turn and can only snap shoot.  Once down, chances are that the guys you podded in will need to be moving.  Moving to get to the objective b/c they drifted off, moving to cover, maybe just moving to get in range of something.  No reason buy a heavy weapon on a mobile troop; stick to special weapons.  What kind of special weapon depends on who you are fighting and what the rest of your army is like.  Plasma, flame, melta, and even grav have a place, probably combined with a similar combi-varient for the sgt.  You might take a melta-bomb just in case, but given where these guys are likely to drop in terms of game tempo, they have probably less chance to use it that someone dropping on T1.

 

Is this kind of what you were thinking of?

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

@EP,

 

You'd put troops in a pod to save them from being shot at while increasing the number of nasties in your first pod wave.  Then you drop your later pods with the troop choices on top of the objectives deeper in the enemy DZ, preferably using the pod to provide the troops with some cover from the rest of the enemy army which you hope is too busy  with your first wave to be able to spend much thought on your tacticals.

 

You also might pod troops because you are running a themed army (fluff).

 

You might pod your troops so as to keep everything off the table in T1 (against demons).

 

Troops in a pod are also very handy in the Relic mission.  If the other side grabs the thing and tried to run it back toward their DZ or cover, you can pod a unit in their path.  This has to be a troop unit too since only scoring units can pick up the Relic.  For us to DS troops, it has to be a pod or a LSS.

[Captain Idaho]

I think a Drop Pod Tactical squad is great for netting a First Blood VP and taking on a mission of necessity without sacrificing a more valuable unit. As an example; Pathfinders need to die to reduce the effectiveness of Tau shooting so a squad can drop and cause a big problem for them.

 

I am torn myself between a modest squad with combi and melta (the most dangerous weapons for me to contend with are generally vehicle mounted, like Rail guns) or going full 10 man and hitting the opponents with a combat squad move to take down 2 vehicles.

 

But then I'm an Ultramarines player so such moves can be planned for and more often will be reliable.

[minigun762]

My first thought was that melta would be wasting the rest of the squad's shooting so I initially thought about a 10 man squad with a flamer and a power weapon, to hunt infantry in cover.

[Montuhotep]

Nobody says, of course, in such a situation that the pod has to come down close to the enemy. You have the option of using it to bolster a potentially weak part of your own line as well. A podded tactical squad in this way can be most useful.

[ElectricPaladin]

Nobody says, of course, in such a situation that the pod has to come down close to the enemy. You have the option of using it to bolster a potentially weak part of your own line as well. A podded tactical squad in this way can be most useful.

 

The trouble with this is the opportunity cost. Sure, it's a way to use a tactical squad in a pod, but then you have to deal with all the weaknesses of the pod: fragility, immobility, and the fact that it still costs points. If you're just using a pod to support your backfield, wouldn't you have been better off with a rhino?

[Captain Idaho]

Meant to say earlier. Just because a unit is a scoring unit, doesn't mean it has to be protected at all costs.

 

They're a cheap source of power projection as well as scoring.

 

Also, whilst melta shots are technically wasting your bolter shots, it's a calculated risk. Killing transports or Leman Russ, or Manticores etc, is more than worth losing bolter shots! Besides with a 10 man squad you can split the 2 melta shots into 1 squad and have a solid 5 bolters in the other squad.

 

Or have a small combat squad for such duties.

 

Because of Riptides intercepting, I favour 2 squads in a single Drop Pod as a better idea.

[Montuhotep]

 

Nobody says, of course, in such a situation that the pod has to come down close to the enemy. You have the option of using it to bolster a potentially weak part of your own line as well. A podded tactical squad in this way can be most useful.

 

The trouble with this is the opportunity cost. Sure, it's a way to use a tactical squad in a pod, but then you have to deal with all the weaknesses of the pod: fragility, immobility, and the fact that it still costs points. If you're just using a pod to support your backfield, wouldn't you have been better off with a rhino?

 

 Not implying that this would be the plan from before the game in the list building stage, more a snap choice whilst weighing up your options once you see how deployment has worked out. If you've found that you're a bit too weak on a flank, for example, and that there's a danger your oppo will sweep down and roll you up, a pod squad, brought down correctly, can bolster what you already have there at worst. So much the better if they can then grab some cover once down. Can go so far as to change your oppo's entire plan, which means you have the initiative as he now has to react to you, not the other way around as he had expected.

[Paulochromis]

Just a few counters to the no-heavies suggestions:

- the heavy bolter can be a reasonable inclusion - RoF offsets Snap Fire somewhat

- I've seen armies with multiple pods drop midfield making inclusion of a multi-melta interesting/worth considering

 

As for melta, I would echo what I think I saw on 1d4chan, namely that melta really belongs with units dedicated to AT (MMABs, CM-sternguard).

Grenades (plus meltabombs) often suffice for tacticals versus transports

[minigun762]

My initial thoughts for a squad were really simple.

 

10 guys, flamer and a power weapon.

 

Idea is drop, burn & rapid fire then continue or assault depending on target.

 

Other option is swap the flamer and power weapon for a plasma and combi plasma for AP2 rapid fire death.

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

My instinct is to go with the plasma.  You can't assault the turn you come in and you can't rapid fire and assault which would make me concerned about making that happen.  On the other hand, especially with MEQ, having plasma in the backfield is a concern.  Plasma also can crack a 10 AV if you end up with a rear shot on a Pred for example.  Seems more multi purpose.  Flamers are nice but only really nice against certain armies in certain formations if you can land close enough.

[SlickSamos]

I would second Brother Dan of the Storm Dragons 3rd Company,

 

A Plasmagun is your friend when you're on the move and uncertain about how far you will be from the target or what your target will be.  This could be supplemented with either a Combi-Plasma/Melta and/or a Multi-Melta (esp. if Vulkan is in your detachment).  Save the Flamers for Assault Squads. 

 

The Chapters which most benefit from the Drop Pod Tactic are the Ultramarines, for their re-rolls; the Imperial Fists, for their Bolter re-rolls; and Salamanders, for Master Crafted Combi-Weapons and access to Vulkan.  Others do provide some benefits, such as extra survivability (Iron Hands, Raven Guard), better squad structure (Space Wolves, Black Templars) and so on, but maximising their application requires more understanding of the list at hand.

 

Brother 'Slick' Samos of the White Swords

[minigun762]

I suppose a plasma, combi plasma and plasma cannon team could work.

First turn gives you two rapid fire plasma weapons and subsequent turns let you add the blast to replace the combi.

[SlickSamos]

My intent was for a five man squad with Combi-Plasma/Melta and Plasmagun to take out a Vehicle from the Rear then turn the Bolters and Plasmagun on Infantry.  However, after a bit more thought, I know that a five man squad isn't going to last long if there are not many other units getting into your opponent's face.  So I'd bulk it up the above to ten strong, I would recommend either the Multi-Melta since you're close or, as Minigun762 has stated, a Plasma Cannon due to it's versatility. 

 

If you want Flamers I'd go for Assault Marines. 

 

Brother Samos

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

I'm not sure a 10 man squad will last much longer if there is truly no support or any other pressing targets.

[Lysere]

Aside from Black Templar who have much more flexability in their troops thanks to crusader squads I'd have to agree with the idea of keeping the flamers at home Unless (and this is the one big exception) you want the squad to hunt down pathfinders and other squishy support units. Pathfinders will last two seconds against a 5 man tactical squad with a flamer. If you go this route though you probably want to still take a combi-plasma and plasma cannon and go ten strong so while some shooting will be wasted on the turn you arrive, you can then threaten bigger targets (like suits) after the support unit is dealt with.

[minigun762]

If we go the route of melta & combi melta, do we take a melta bomb as well? Or assume the squad won't live to use it?

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

I'd take it unless I really needed the points.  It's cheap and can easily pay for itself.

[minigun762]

I'd take it unless I really needed the points. It's cheap and can easily pay for itself.

That's my gut feeling as well, but it's good to get confirmation.

[Lysere]

 

I'd take it unless I really needed the points. It's cheap and can easily pay for itself.

That's my gut feeling as well, but it's good to get confirmation.

 

I don't take many melta bombs because I end up needing the few points saved that way elsewhere. Whenever I end up with 5-10 points left over I go back and find squads that could really use that little extra punch against armor. My biker lance sergeant tends to end up with a melta bomb a lot.

[Captain Idaho]

Agreed. Taking melta bombs is the last thing you should do when building lists. Great if you have the points but never sacrifice something else just for them.

 

I always find I'm either 20pts short or 10pts over, so take a look at such upgrades only after the list is built.

 

As to combi melta and melta gun; I'm thinking you will most of the time not need melta bombs since we get krak grenades with the whole squad. Hitting rear armour with a bunch of krak grenades is usually sufficient to the task. Same goes for monstrous creatures.