Psilencers on termi's?

[lokyar]

I know a psilencer on PAGK is a no-go but since termi's are relentless does that still apply?

is this a big avoid even on termi's?

[jeffersonian000]

Too expensive, too weak a weapon when compared to Psycannons or Incinerators. Weakest weapon in the codex, unless you are fighting daemons.

 

SJ

[Inquisitor Fox]

As a general rule, it's not necessarily the relentless that gimps the psilencer, it's math.  Even against demons, generally speaking the higher strength and fire rate of the psycannon makes for a better weapon generating more wounds against more targets.  A Terminator with relentless firing a psycannon generates 4 shots, of higher strength, better AP and rending.  What's to lose?

[Deamon Wolf]

As a Termi player for all round playability it's the psycannon all the way the psylla nicer is just a very expenceive multi shot Bolter

[Reclusiarch Darius]

All of our psilencer weapons are trash and should basically be ignored when selecting wargear. It needed something more to make it relevant ie ignoring/forcing re-rolls to invul saves, re-rolling to wound Daemons on a 4+, Ignore Cover...something. As is, incinerator or psycannon (with our 'Preferred Enemy' re-rolls don't forget) is always superior. 

[jeffersonian000]

Psiliencers would be useful if they were free, assault weapons, or poison versus everyone. As is, they just aren't worth it.

 

SJ

[DinoDoc]

Psiliencers would be useful if they were free, assault weapons, or poison versus everyone. As is, they just aren't worth it.

 

SJ

I wouldn't even use them if they were free or assault weapons (fighting daemons or not). Poison vs everyone however would be an interesting option.

[Gentlemanloser]

Psilencer should have the old Ignore Invulneralbe Saves rule that our old Psycannons did.

 

And be free and assault. :P

 

That way, we get the new Psycannons as vehicle / 2+ save all round weapon.  While the magic bolt of pure mind magic Psilencer messes with Daemons Invulnerable saves (and other units, say IG hiding in a DA/Az Power Field) and can't really touch Walkers/Vehicles.

 

Anti Armour/Armour Saves: Psycannon

Anti Cover Saves: Incinerator

Anti Invulnerable Saves: Psilencer

 

All three have niches, and would want to be used.

[BloodTzar]

Rending / ID on roll of 6 , ignoring invul would make them usable weapon. But atm they are just not anywhere near this.

[Grand Master Caloth]

The only issue of ignoring invulnerable saves is that it's rule currently states it auto wounds demons on a 4+. Too powerful against a codex whose only save is invulnerable

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

 

The only issue of ignoring invulnerable saves is that it's rule currently states it auto wounds demons on a 4+. Too powerful against a codex whose only save is invulnerable 

 

Agreed. We've already seen this edition how broken 'Ignore Cover' is with weapons that have low AP. Wounding Daemons on a 4+ isn't really that powerful though, as psycannons already wound 90% of Daemons on a 2+, have Rending and AP4 as well (not to mention an Assault mode for when you need to move+shoot). 

 

I'd give Knight Librarians the old 'Null Zone' power Marines used to have (ah, the good old days), and make psilencers re-roll to wound against psykers and Daemons. That way, they're not so cornercase we never take them, as Jetseer Council and units containing psykers are around. The whole problem with the weapon is that's currently only relevant against Daemons, and only if said Daemon is T7+. No AP value is just further salt in the wound. 

[Gentlemanloser]

 

and only if said Daemon is T7+

 

T8+. ;)

 

Psycannons wound on a 4+ facing T7.

 

How many Daemons are T8?  The Avatar?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

How many Daemons are T8?  The Avatar?

Avatar is T6, you're thinking of the Gargantuan version FW made rules for. 

 

Daemons with T8 is basically just the Gargantuan MC's FW made. Which are like 1,000 points each and Apoc only anyway, so we're better off just Vortex 'nading them anyway. 

[Gentlemanloser]

In that case, the "wound on 4+" of the Psilencer is never useful over the S7 of a Psycannon.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Pretty much. When you consider our 'Preferred Enemy' bonus, we essentially only miss Daemons on a natural 2 (1's we re-roll and probably make it) and we almost never fail to wound (psycannon and incinerator both on 2's, 1's re-roll as before). It even makes our storm bolters (especially with psybolt upgrade) more reliable. 

 

I think the background for psilencers is cool; they're basically crystalline cannons that focus the psychic energies of the wielder into anti-daemon bolts of psychic light. And they're of non-human provenance, which suggests either Eldar or another race that has suffered the attentions of Daemonic invasion in the past. Perhaps the Kinebrach?