Atlantic Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Last night I faced a Coteaz list with 6 dreadknights. In turn 1 - he shunted them across the board and from then on killed my guys turn after turn. It was pretty overpowering. I don't really know how to deal with them. As the game went on, I was able to kill 5 of them. It really didn't make a difference though as they pretty much killed my entire army! I don't really have anything to break up an assault like that. What would you guys do? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282226-6-dreadknights-got-my-face-melted/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Hammernators come to mind, as well as grav now since dreadknights have low invuln saves. Sounds like a not very fun list to go up against though that's for sure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282226-6-dreadknights-got-my-face-melted/#findComment-3501685 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MordentHex Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 sternguard and hammer terms. tactical squads with grav or melta weapons. powerfist vet serg. Centurions with well, any load-out. If he wants to bring the cheddar, you can at least oblige him with giving him something to wine about. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282226-6-dreadknights-got-my-face-melted/#findComment-3501704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Sounds like a list I wouldn't play against. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282226-6-dreadknights-got-my-face-melted/#findComment-3501710 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garath Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 not my idea here- but still... You can Ally in some IG, namely Armoured Group. Vanquisher in that list can take Monster killer rounds (or whatever they're called). High S that causes instant death fired from long range... it will kill one DK a turn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282226-6-dreadknights-got-my-face-melted/#findComment-3501727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 What army are you playing with? May be a helpful start. Grav guns are awesome vs. these guys - a centurian squad (for cheaper than the cost of the Dreadknight) will be able to take out one a turn- and considering the T5, 2+ save on the Cents, youre not likely to have them wiped out. In fact, im wondering why so much damage was dealt by the flamers/templates of the knights. Otherwise, lasplas razorbacks are also good. Up to three wounds dealable each unit. If you need to get by a lil help with your friends ..... DA Black Knights absolutely destroy these guys. Squad of 5 (command unit pref) will melt the face off of one per turn- especially with grenades. SW can work well with a Rune Priest on a bike with Jaws - acting in tandem with grav gun units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282226-6-dreadknights-got-my-face-melted/#findComment-3501804 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Don't play Dual FoC? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282226-6-dreadknights-got-my-face-melted/#findComment-3501828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 I'm running the new sm codex. I always try to bring a balanced list. Right now I'm running Imperial Fists. It's early and my list isn't in front of me. Might not be 100% accurate. Chaplain, Term armor , combi-melta Tac squad 10 plasma gun heavy bolter vet. Sgt w power weapon rhino Tac squad 10 flamer heavy bolter vet. Sgt w power weapon rhino Scouts 10 cloaks bolters heavy bolter beacon Terminators 10 cyclone ml assault cannon Sterguard 5 bolters las plays razorback Attack bike sqd 2 multi melt as Attack bike sqd 2 multi melt as Dev sqd 10 2 las cannons 2 ml w flank las plas razorback Defense line w quad gun Please forgive my phone and auto correct Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282226-6-dreadknights-got-my-face-melted/#findComment-3501919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Grav guns are awesome vs. these guys - a centurian squad (for cheaper than the cost of the Dreadknight) will be able to take out one a turn- and considering the T5, 2+ save on the Cents, youre not likely to have them wiped out. In fact, im wondering why so much damage was dealt by the flamers/templates of the knights. 3 Grav Cannon cents come out 5 points cheaper than an NDK with a Personal Teleporter. With S10 AP2 hits in CC, they will be ID'd with no save, if the NDK gets into CC with them. 12" Move doesn't guarantee that, if he's trying to stay out of Grav Range, but if he's willing to take a round of shooting, you get 15 shots to kill one with. That's; 15 shots, 10 hits, 8.33 Wounds, 9.72 after rerolls. 6.48 Unsaved Wounds Enough to kill an NDK with one round of shooting, on average. Ignoring the Hurrican Bolter shots as well. You could always go Dual FoC yourself, load up on Scouts for Troops and take 6 3 man Grav Centurion Squads to match his 6 NDK. Except the GK player will have much better mobility. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282226-6-dreadknights-got-my-face-melted/#findComment-3501931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 I get that but find list hammer to be pretty distasteful. I would prefer to find a way to deal with builds like this using a balanced list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282226-6-dreadknights-got-my-face-melted/#findComment-3501987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Then I reiterate, don't play dual FoC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282226-6-dreadknights-got-my-face-melted/#findComment-3502010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muctar Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 There's not much you're going to do against such a lop-sided list without making one yourself. The solution to 6 NDK is 6 squads of grav centurions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282226-6-dreadknights-got-my-face-melted/#findComment-3502025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 There's not much you're going to do against such a lop-sided list without making one yourself. The solution to 6 NDK is 6 squads of grav centurions. 6 squads of hammernators would also work out well as I learned fighting against grey knights. They also work well against Coteaz and any henchman he brings since all your guys have fantastic saves, and can one shot Coteaz himself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282226-6-dreadknights-got-my-face-melted/#findComment-3502177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Be careful if the GK player buys Heavy Incinerators for his NDKs. He'll jump around Hammernators (like Tau) and drop Templates on them to kill by attrition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282226-6-dreadknights-got-my-face-melted/#findComment-3502221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Be careful if the GK player buys Heavy Incinerators for his NDKs. He'll jump around Hammernators (like Tau) and drop Templates on them to kill by attrition. Then back him into a corner or a wall, also spread out a bit. If he wants to hit more than maybe 2-3 he'll need to get into the roughly 14" threat zone for an average charge, which makes it very easy to catch him in assault. Otherwise he might kill one a turn. He would also have to count on you taking hammernators and build entirely around that single fact. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282226-6-dreadknights-got-my-face-melted/#findComment-3502229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Unless you're using LoS blocking terrain as has been suggested here, which will styme, if not make any charge impossible, which a Jump unit can take full advantage of, while the vastly slower Terminators can't. All the while the Hammernators can't shoot and are wasted if they can't actually get into CC. And you're not going to be able to purchase Assault Vehicles for 6 Hammernator Squads. Also, if you do back them into a corner, they can always Shunt away, and you'll never catch them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282226-6-dreadknights-got-my-face-melted/#findComment-3502241 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MordentHex Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 also maybe a thunderfire cannon. If he is willing to clump up so many monsters together. those cannons can atleast pound in and slow him down. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282226-6-dreadknights-got-my-face-melted/#findComment-3502849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Unless you're using LoS blocking terrain as has been suggested here, which will styme, if not make any charge impossible, which a Jump unit can take full advantage of, while the vastly slower Terminators can't. All the while the Hammernators can't shoot and are wasted if they can't actually get into CC. And you're not going to be able to purchase Assault Vehicles for 6 Hammernator Squads. Also, if you do back them into a corner, they can always Shunt away, and you'll never catch them. If he is in a position where he can hit you with any torrent weapon he also happens to be standing in a spot where you can run up and beat his face in. GKs are terrible at long range and unless he runs heavy psycannons he can't actually keep away from hammernators and still do serious damage. Also unless you roll kill points you can just drop as many objectives on your side as you can and bunker down half the hammernators guarding your troops, and the other half attacking. Odds are you can get at least a draw if not a win just by making him come to you, after all this game is all about objectives 5 out of 6 times. Also jump monstrous creatures aren't much faster than infantry, sure you can jump over a wall to shoot someone, but you're not Tau, you make that move your stuck there until the enemy kindly finishes his turn, and if you haven't killed the hammernator squad you can be sure he will not be giving you that chance to slip away. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282226-6-dreadknights-got-my-face-melted/#findComment-3502898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 If he is in a position where he can hit you with any torrent weapon he also happens to be standing in a spot where you can run up and beat his face in. OTher side of some area terrain. Like a crater, or a ruin. The Hammernators get a Cover Save, which is useless, but have to roll difficult terrain to move/assault. Plus the NDK can get quite a bit of range with a 12" Torrent Template. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282226-6-dreadknights-got-my-face-melted/#findComment-3503020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 If he is in a position where he can hit you with any torrent weapon he also happens to be standing in a spot where you can run up and beat his face in. OTher side of some area terrain. Like a crater, or a ruin. The Hammernators get a Cover Save, which is useless, but have to roll difficult terrain to move/assault. Plus the NDK can get quite a bit of range with a 12" Torrent Template. As I said before, unless he's fine hitting like one terminator he needs to get closer than that. You could of course realize it's nothing more than an extreme suggestion to counter a stupid list. The better idea is to stop arguing useless small points and add in some ideas that actually matter. Like suggesting 2 3 man grav centurion teams with 2 5-10 man hammer nator squads to keep the grey knights away from the centurions. Basically bubble wrap and advance, not like the cover save you'll give them will be better than the invuln. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282226-6-dreadknights-got-my-face-melted/#findComment-3503231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 6 Riptide? :P Grav's have already been suggested, and Centurion or Bikers are probably better units than Hammernator to take these out with. And better all round units as well. As for bubble wrap, I really don't think it will work. Not with Personal Teleporters. Footslooging NDK, sure. But for PT NDK, you need mobility/range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282226-6-dreadknights-got-my-face-melted/#findComment-3503237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted October 22, 2013 Author Share Posted October 22, 2013 I've tweaked my list a bit and his list is different. When we have our rematch in a couple of weeks he will be packing. Coteaz Bunch of Grey Knight Terminators in a Landraider Crusader w/ multi melta 4 or so Razorbacks with henchman for scoring units - probably a mix of heavy bolters and assault cannons 4 ish Dreadknights I'm going to bring Chaplain, Terminator, Combi Melta Tac Sqd 10 - Plasma Gun, Heavy Bolter, Vet. Sgt. Power Weapon, Rhino w/ Dozer Blade Tac Sqd 10 - Flamer, Heavy Bolter, Vet. Sgt. Power Weapon, Rhino w/ Dozer Blade Scouts x 10 - Bolters, Cloaks, Beacon Terminators x 10 - Cyclone ML and Assault Cannon Sternguard x 5 - Las Plas Razorback w/ Storm Bolter and Dozer Blade 2 Multi Melta Attack Bikes 2 Multi Melta Attack Bikes Dev Sqad - 2 Lascannons, 2 Flakk ML, Razorback w/ Las Plas and Storm Bolter Defense Line w/ Quad Gun Depending on terrain and mission, I'm going to combat squad the terminators and try to sic them on a dreadknight each. I'm hoping my ap 2 weapons will be able to focus fire the other two down before they get out of control. After that - I have to somehow pop that Landraider and pour every shot I can into those Terminators. With my luck they will end up being Paladins. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282226-6-dreadknights-got-my-face-melted/#findComment-3503841 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 6 Dreadknights is a 2kpts list. With them and Coteaz thats a base price of: 1230pts+2nd HQ+4troops.... sounds like a pretty focused army. If he crushed a 1/4ish of your army that first turn that sounds about right actually. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282226-6-dreadknights-got-my-face-melted/#findComment-3504320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Easily fit in, thanks to the Wizard of Space and Time; HQ: Coteaz (100) Troop: Warrior Accolyte x5, Storm Bolter x5, Razorback, Psybolt Ammo (85) Troop: Warrior Accolyte x6, Storm Bolter x6, Razorback, Psybolt Ammo (92) Heavy: NDK, Heavy Incinerator, PT (235) Heavy: NDK, Heavy Incinerator, PT (235) Heavy: NDK, Heavy Incinerator, PT (235) HQ: Inquisitor, PML1 (55) Troop: Warrior Accolyte x5, Storm Bolter x5, Razorback, Psybolt Ammo (85) Troop: Warrior Accolyte x6, Storm Bolter x6, Razorback, Psybolt Ammo (92) Heavy: NDK, Heavy Incinerator, PT (235) Heavy: NDK, Heavy Incinerator, PT (235) Heavy: NDK, Heavy Incinerator, PT (235) Total: 1,919 Still room left. All hail the Wizard of Space and Time! (I'd probably plump for a GKGM as the second HQ to use TGS to make 1-3 NDK scoring. Just in case I don't win by killing all your dudes!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282226-6-dreadknights-got-my-face-melted/#findComment-3504422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted October 23, 2013 Author Share Posted October 23, 2013 I might swap my stern guard and shuffle a few things for 5 thss terminators Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282226-6-dreadknights-got-my-face-melted/#findComment-3504582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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