Marshal Rohr Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Is anyone else disturbed by the fact that some of the Legions haven't been given as much thought and love as the rest? For instance, Graham McNeill has hoarded the Iron Warriors and Emperor's Children novels, yet the Forge World book was surprisingly sparse on giving them a 'feel' beyond 'they're really good at stuff'. Then when you get into the novels the Emperor's Children are suddenly Hellraiser in Space. The Ultramarines are Roman and you know it, yet the Imperial Fists have been mentioned in multiple stories, yet no 'theme' or 'feel'. Are they Prussian like the old IA article and depictions? Are they Roman Legion-lite? It's impossible to tell. And sadly, I feel like Forge World may skimp on them much in the way the EC were. The Dark Angels have no problems with their theme, but the Raven Guard are... invisible? Are they stealthy? If so, then why do they wear so much white? Are they more akin to an airborne unit, striking behind the lines? I guess they're only theme for the Horus Heresy is they are all dead, but really, what were they like before? Its sad that the loyalists get so little attention or affection and lack the 'holy :cuss ' factor in their models that the traitors get, and when it comes to building an army off a theme they contradict or are so generic they lose any of that old feeling of differentiation. Just my thoughts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282239-lack-of-culture/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 As per raven guard.. it doesnt matter what colour you wear when you can hide in shadows ref nykona sharrowkyn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282239-lack-of-culture/#findComment-3502121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 The Death Guard. They are barely mentioned in the short stories, and "their" book is all about how brave Nathaniel Garro bravely ran away. Compare to the "feel" you get for the Iron Warriors in Angel Exterminatus, the Word Bearers in The First Heretic, or the Space Wolves in Prospero Burns. On the plus side, someone at Forge World is definitely a fan. Phosphex and Grave Wardens and Deathshroud, oh my! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282239-lack-of-culture/#findComment-3502122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Death Guard need more help at this point than anyone I think. They literally have a short story (micro short) and....what, from the perspective of the Legion itself? Scars probably has more than the last 10 books combined. This is likely needing a longer post, but yes, some legions need a bit of help. Death Guard, Raven Guard (Kinda? I dont know I think they have their thing as special ops lovers...vs Alphas being spy's....) Fists, Iron Hands have a good feel to them especially coming out of Massacre, but yeah, I really think some of the Legions need some ADB/Abnett/Wright/Sanders/French love. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282239-lack-of-culture/#findComment-3502130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMagnus Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I though Imperial Fists were supposed to be templars? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282239-lack-of-culture/#findComment-3502131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 [...] and "their" book is all about how brave Nathaniel Garro bravely ran away. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282239-lack-of-culture/#findComment-3502133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon950 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Actually the ultramarines are more greek and the imperial fists are roman. Not all the legions/chapters are built on how ancient cultures functioned. The raven guard were all about cutting off the enemy supplies or taking out parts of the army that were vulnerable until it was time the head of the army. They are not much of a frontline offensive force. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282239-lack-of-culture/#findComment-3502135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 I though Imperial Fists were supposed to be templars? Only Sigismund's chosen few. The rest are just Ultramarines-mixed with uptight Napoleonic era Aristocrats. Crap, maybe they did stay Prussian, just not the right Prussian! :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282239-lack-of-culture/#findComment-3502140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMagnus Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Actually the ultramarines are more greek and the imperial fists are roman. Not all the legions/chapters are built on how ancient cultures functioned. The raven guard were all about cutting off the enemy supplies or taking out parts of the army that were vulnerable until it was time the head of the army. They are not much of a frontline offensive force. Now wait a minute, Ultramarines are both roman and greek influenced. Guilliman is kind of mixture between Julius Caesar and Alexander the Great. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282239-lack-of-culture/#findComment-3502417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 I'm just hoping Dorn is more like Frederick the Great. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282239-lack-of-culture/#findComment-3502426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 The Scars have been sucking at life for the last decade, in the fluff department. I don't mind them getting some extra attention right now. As for the Iron Warriors, whatever culture they were supposed to have was torn out of them over the last couple hundred years of trench war and sieges, in my opinion. Their culture is far simpler now; war, survival and death, mixed with a grave sense of unavoidable doom and gallows humour. They have little time for anything else. As for Graham McNeill... *sigh*. I've always had a soft spot in my heart, because of Storm of Iron. Despite it's age, it's still a good read. At the end of the day, though, I've been wildly disappointed with how the IV Legion has been represented in his books, especially during the Heresy. It's to the point that I'm skimming for fluff in McNeil's novels, and avoiding the storyline. "What's that, Fulgrim? Follow you into the eye of hell, with the better part of my entire Legion, along with my entire subordinate chain of command, straight into a trap I knew was coming, despite the fact that Myself and my Sons are known for extreme paranoia and are xenophobic of outsiders? Sure, why the heck not?" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282239-lack-of-culture/#findComment-3502447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 To be fair to Pert, Fulgrim baited his hook with the promise of weapons that could one shot a solar system. That's pretty good bait, in my opinion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282239-lack-of-culture/#findComment-3502451 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Except that he knew it was a lie midway through the book. Which was when the story went to hell in a handbasket. I got to the point where the only reason I was reading it anymore was because of my favorite characters in Storm of Iron, and the awesomest Iron Warrior ever, Grendel. Grendel is everything I think the IV Legion should be. His demeanour, his blunt approach to war, his bald faced honesty, his agression in a breach. Matter of fact, I'm going to start an election campaign.... Grendel for Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282239-lack-of-culture/#findComment-3502455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Perturabo.. look at my toy fulgrim fulgrim.. this one? Perturabo.. yes.. now i'll make this pencil.. I mean toy titan disappear boom Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282239-lack-of-culture/#findComment-3502459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 To be fair to Pert, Fulgrim baited his hook with the promise of weapons that could one shot a solar system. That's pretty good bait, in my opinion. That's no moon... Sharks with "lazer beams" on their heads IMMA FIRIN MAH LAHZOR!!! ...wait. Does it end the solar system in Red, Green, or Blue balls of light? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282239-lack-of-culture/#findComment-3502462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Perturabo.. look at my toy fulgrim fulgrim.. this one? Perturabo.. yes.. now i'll make this pencil.. I mean toy titan disappear boom Best part of the book, really. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282239-lack-of-culture/#findComment-3502464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karthak Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 As for the Iron Warriors, whatever culture they were supposed to have was torn out of them over the last couple hundred years of trench war and sieges, in my opinion. Their culture is far simpler now; war, survival and death, mixed with a grave sense of unavoidable doom and gallows humour. They have little time for anything else. I may be wrong, but I think something like this was stated outright in Angel Exterminatus; how the noble traditions of the IVth Legion were gradually ground out of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282239-lack-of-culture/#findComment-3502536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 While we're speaking of the Fourth Legion - anyone else pleasantly surprised that Perturabo likes Magnus? I'd never considered ol' Perty as being one to have a strong drive for betterment and learning (something that seems obvious in hindsight). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282239-lack-of-culture/#findComment-3502549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeyray Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I am disappointed with the way the IF are handled as "Prussian" maybe it is my inner historian but calling a main character "Sigismund" with "Junker" traditions and saying they are slightly Germanic does not cut it for me. I need more to satisfy my thirst for fluff, that's why my Index Astartes article about a successor chapter of the IF is in the pipelines to fill the void GW has left. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282239-lack-of-culture/#findComment-3502553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I think the Iron Warriors were meant to stand as counterpoints, more so than the Emperor's Children. A Legion no different than certain others, noble and bright, dragged through the dirt and mud until even a Primarch gets PTSD. Their bitter current state means less without a promising foundation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282239-lack-of-culture/#findComment-3502562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammonius Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 While we're speaking of the Fourth Legion - anyone else pleasantly surprised that Perturabo likes Magnus? I'd never considered ol' Perty as being one to have a strong drive for betterment and learning (something that seems obvious in hindsight). Yes, as much as I was worried that Perturabo would be a wooden setpiece in Angel Exterminatus, I was really happy to see his get such a good character study. I am really interested in what happens to take him from the 30K Primarch we see in the book, to the eventual Daemon Prince that broods within Medrengard in the 40K time period. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282239-lack-of-culture/#findComment-3502571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 I am disappointed with the way the IF are handled as "Prussian" maybe it is my inner historian but calling a main character "Sigismund" with "Junker" traditions and saying they are slightly Germanic does not cut it for me. I need more to satisfy my thirst for fluff, that's why my Index Astartes article about a successor chapter of the IF is in the pipelines to fill the void GW has left. That's what I'm saying man. Some good old fashioned military aristocracy with a healthy dose of Bismark and I'll die a happy man. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282239-lack-of-culture/#findComment-3502588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 If we go by Crimson Fist, the VII are Eskimo Prussian Teutonic Knights...which is a fairly eclectic combination of cultures. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282239-lack-of-culture/#findComment-3502628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 If we go by Crimson Fist, the VII are Eskimo Prussian Teutonic Knights...which is a fairly eclectic combination of cultures. Eskimo??? Do they have 324 names for Fist? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282239-lack-of-culture/#findComment-3502632 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyMonkey Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I actually don't think every legion needs a culture. I agree that Imperial Fists can use quite a bit more elaboration given that the original IA tried to establish that they have a cultural basis. However, I'm quite content with the archetype treatment that many of the traitor legions get. It makes it easier to understand their fall to Chaos without all the trappings of a particular culture getting in the way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282239-lack-of-culture/#findComment-3502642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.