Fibonacci Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I think the question boils down to two parts: 1 - If a unit contains a model with the psyker rule, does that unit have the psyker rule? 2 - If a unit has more than one psyker and the unit suffers PotW, are all psykers affected? In question #2, there are other rules regarding multiple psykers that could also be in action such as Psychic Choir (all for one) or Brotherhood of Psykers (and one for all). And another oddity ... assume #1 is "no" so you have to actually hit the psyker model. Not a problem, we just assign wound pools until we clear away the fodder and get to the psyker. Psyker is given the S5 hit to save and shrugs it off with a LO,S roll. Does that model still suffer a PotW? In other words, is it still hit or does the hit pass on with the LO'S roll? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282263-adepta-sororitas-condemnor-boltgun/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Unless they've changed the wording from the WD codex: "Any psyker that takes an unsaved wound from the stake-crossbow shot suffers the Perils of the Warp in addition to any other effects." Psi-shock special rule. so: 1 - no, only a model with either the Psyker (or Brotherhood of Psykers) special rule is a Psyker. 2 - no, only the model that suffers the Perils is affected. Now, regarding look out sir - if the roll is passed, the Psyker hasn't taken an unsaved wound from the Psi-shock weapon, so doesn't suffer a Perils of the Warp. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282263-adepta-sororitas-condemnor-boltgun/#findComment-3502702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azatoth Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Unless they've changed the wording from the WD codex: "Any psyker that takes an unsaved wound from the stake-crossbow shot suffers the Perils of the Warp in addition to any other effects." Psi-shock special rule. so: 1 - no, only a model with either the Psyker (or Brotherhood of Psykers) special rule is a Psyker. 2 - no, only the model that suffers the Perils is affected. Now, regarding look out sir - if the roll is passed, the Psyker hasn't taken an unsaved wound from the Psi-shock weapon, so doesn't suffer a Perils of the Warp. The AS only need to hit not to wound afaik. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282263-adepta-sororitas-condemnor-boltgun/#findComment-3502711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Unless they've changed the wording from the WD codex The wording has changed in the new Digital Update. I've yet to see it though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282263-adepta-sororitas-condemnor-boltgun/#findComment-3502714 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kierdale Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Perhaps all will be revealed in a Grey Knight errata as they have the same weapon but (now) different rules, no? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282263-adepta-sororitas-condemnor-boltgun/#findComment-3502720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Perhaps all will be revealed in a Grey Knight errata as they have the same weapon but (now) different rules, no? The GK rule was errated to require an unsaved wound so I guess it all swings off what the AS rule now says. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282263-adepta-sororitas-condemnor-boltgun/#findComment-3502731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted October 22, 2013 Author Share Posted October 22, 2013 Unless they've changed the wording from the WD codex: I guess I should have posted the rule in question. "Psi-shock: Any unit with the Pskyer, Brotherhood of Psykers or Psychic Pilot special rules that is hit by a weapon with this special rule suffers the Perils of the Warp in addition to any other damage." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282263-adepta-sororitas-condemnor-boltgun/#findComment-3502750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymirl Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 With respect, it might be a good idea to refrain from answering questions without checking the wording: wildly guessing isn't the best system for answering rules questions. Basically it states the effect on units is to take a perils. Units with psychic pilot and brotherhood of psykers are pretty clear how they handle that so the only remaining question is the catch all 'units with the psyker rule' part. Either you consider that a unit with a psyker in counts in which case hit whoever you like and every psyker in the unit gets to have perils. Or you consider that it doesn't count as the unit having a rule on model has (unless the psyker is totally alone) in which case you don't allow it to work at all ever. I would consider that if a unit has a model with the psyker rule then the unit has that rule. If a unit has a model with a meltagun it means the unit has a meltagun for example. As a result the unit takes perils, the rule book seems pretty clear perils only effects psykers so you would only effect psykers. But all of them I think. Hilarious death to the screamer council, but almost sadly everything else in the book is tediously dull and rubbish. Le sigh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282263-adepta-sororitas-condemnor-boltgun/#findComment-3502756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 A perils. Units with psykers in them would, as far as I can see, suffer one perils of the warp attack distributed as per shooting- IE the closest psyker would take the perils. Just IMHO of course. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282263-adepta-sororitas-condemnor-boltgun/#findComment-3502919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 That is so badly worded it's not funny. With the exception of brotherhood of psykers, units don't have the psyker special rule - models do. So you hit my unit of plague marines with an attached Sorcerer. I then point out that the unit you've hit hasn't got the psyker special rule, only the character has. So it does nothing. Wound allocation is the only way to "hit" a model in a unit, with the exception of precision shots (which still need to wound in order to be allocated to the desired model). Is it just me, or did the original wording (from WD) make a lot more sense? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282263-adepta-sororitas-condemnor-boltgun/#findComment-3503015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted October 22, 2013 Author Share Posted October 22, 2013 Well the original made sure it would never come up since nobody would ever spend 15 points on it. :lol: A perils. Units with psykers in them would, as far as I can see, suffer one perils of the warp attack distributed as per shooting- IE the closest psyker would take the perils. Just IMHO of course. Actually it's worded "the Perils of the Warp" but I tend to agree. One hit, one perils unless there is another rule like with henchmen psykers that makes them all take a perils. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282263-adepta-sororitas-condemnor-boltgun/#findComment-3503168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymirl Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I think about the only thing we can all sensibly agree on is that it's a poorly written unclear rule! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282263-adepta-sororitas-condemnor-boltgun/#findComment-3503790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 I don't understand the problem. "Any unit with the Psyker, Brotherhood of Psykers, or Psychic Pilot special rules that is hit by a weapon with this special rule suffers the Perils of the Warp in addition to any other damage.""If the unit suffers the Perils of the Warp, or any other attack that specifically targets Psykers, it is resolved against the character, if there is one, or against a random, non-character model in the unit, if there is no character.""While an Independent Character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes" "Unless specified in the rule itself, the unit's special rules are not conferred upon the Independent Character, and the Independent Character's special rules are not conferred upon the unit."So a brotherhood of psykers has one dude suffer the effects. Since he counts as a "screamer", he isn't hurt by the shot unless he specifically is hit by it. Seriously, there's way too much guesswork and not reading the rules going on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282263-adepta-sororitas-condemnor-boltgun/#findComment-3505687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeven Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Pink horrors count as a unit of psykers. All of them would be affected. Independent characters count as units, so any IC Psyker would be affected. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282263-adepta-sororitas-condemnor-boltgun/#findComment-3505925 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Pink Horrors have Brotherhood of Psykers, so they follow the rules as I mentioned above. Character or random dude, not the whole unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282263-adepta-sororitas-condemnor-boltgun/#findComment-3505955 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeven Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Totally right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282263-adepta-sororitas-condemnor-boltgun/#findComment-3506146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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