Emperor's Children Tactics

[Dumah]

All the other traitor legions have one, so now it's our turn!

 

To start, a few thoughts of my own:

 

Kakophoni + Master of Signals - I (and I'm sure many others) are underwhelmed by the proto-noise marines. Their guns are pretty boss, but only being Heavy 1 and lacking ignores cover on the basic shot is a bummer. I did a little dice rolling for experimentation's sake and decided that giving them BS5 from a MoS helped a great deal.

 

Put all that together with Focus Fire and you've got a very nasty surprise for your enemies. If you can catch a squad with a few or more models out of cover, you're almost guaranteed to kill said models with FF and stand a great chance of causing Bio-Psychic Shock and taking out an additional chunk of targets in cover. That right there renders the lack of ignores cover on the basic profile moot.

 

Vigilator + Palatine Blades - The Palatine Blades are gorgeous, but beyond even that they have the potential to wreck serious face. I've seen a lot of lists with all Power Weapons but I actually like their Sabres for their killing potential against 2+ armor. Throwing in a few power weapons with the rest keeping Sabres and the Vigilator giving them scout and infiltrate has the potential for an early 2nd turn charge.

 

Alternatively, you could attach a Primus Medicae to the Blades and give them all Jump Packs for a mobile, hard to kill and killy unit.

 

Thoughts?

[spu00sed]

I'm currently writing up a in depth review from my point of view on the third legion. One question in the interim. Why worry about using focus fire with the kakophoni? Their shots are only AP5

[Dumah]

Because, by using FF you can focus ALL of  your hits on just a few models, almost guaranteeing unsaved wounds that will count against that unit when you roll for Bio-Psychic Shock. It makes the odds of them failing their modified Leadership test that much more likely, and will therefore give you a greater chance of causing those tasty d6 extra AP2 instant death wounds.

 

If you were to spread the shots around like normal, it's less likely that so few hits would cause wounds. Basically, just a way to get around the fact that they only get 1 shot each. Follow?

 

Edit: Faulty logic is faulty...

[Daddywarcrimes]

You aren't changing the number of saves taken by using FF, so you're not increasing the odds of getting a failed save. It would be worth doing if you were shooting something with a 5+ save, but against targets in war plate, it won't matter.

[spu00sed]

Well here is attempt two at an overview of the third legion

 

Legion special rules

Always having to challenge

An annoying rule and the only legion special rule that abaddon took with him into 40k. The need to always challenge means you need to ensure your beat stick characters have a buffed sergeant in their squad to absorb the challenge requirement.

 

They need to be buffed, just incase you lose the combat and lose the challenge, at which point you are at a further minus 1 leadership.

 

A very annoying aspect of our legion, especially when the challenge sergeants die, leaving the beat stick to kill a lowly sergeant, rather than an entire squad.

 

Crusader

Slightly higher run moves and an extra D3 in sweeping. It is the second part that is amazing for us. In a mirror environment, having an extra D3 means we should be sweeping almost every enemy squad we win against in close combat.

 

Legion wargear

Sonic shriekers

5 pts for plus one initiative on the first turn of each assault, what isn't to live, again it gets past the mirror match ups of heresy era battles. It is especially useful on paragon bladed praetors and palatine blades, allowing them to go before their counterparts.

 

It is still useful on power sword/mace sergeants allowing them to go before their counterparts, though the prevalence of artificer armour does reduce its usefulness

 

Phoenix spear

A two handed power sword that gives you +1S and AP on the turn you charge, not too bad, until you realise that it is the cost of a power fist. At the cost of a power weapon it is a good weapon, at the cost of a fist it should be ignored.

 

Especially as the night lords get a two handed power sword with +1S and rending all the time for the price of a power sword

 

Units

Palatine blades

A decent assassination squad, their only problem is that their cost can quickly escalate. Best thing to do with them is to keep them cheap and go hunting other support squads

 

2 power swords, jump packs and sonic shriekers will set you back 205pts and they will be able to hit hard

 

Phoenix guard

A WS4 1W body guard unit, what is worst they are in terminator armour, so can't use crusader to easily sweep the enemy and they are armed with Phoenix spears! Their only use seems to be using either a spartan or the hidden blade to go deep into the enemy half and use their stubborn and scoring ability to hold/contest an enemy objective.

 

Their living icon social rule is very situational and pales in comparisons to Fulgrim's and Ancient Ryalnor's special rules.

 

The Katophoni

An amazing unit form the background, alas their rules do not follow suit. Their weapon is a merely 36" S6 AP5 pining weapon, with get hot tokay it even less inspiring. It's only saving grace is e bio feedback.

 

The enemy can suffer an extra D6 AP2 instant death hits, if it fails a ld test with a modifier for each wound taken.

 

However they are not going to be inflicting many wounds

 

Their use seems to be restricted to trying to take on enemy Multi wound models. Hoping for one or two wounds and then a multitude of death. Unfortunately even this isn't garunteed, as such enemies are usually guarded with high toughness, armour save, invulnerable saves and feel no pain, making such a happening much more unlikely.

 

The only way to counter this is to spend even more points on kakophoni or an HQ on a librarian oping for a synergy attack.

 

HQ

Eidolon

A beat stick and nothing else. He hits hard and fast, even with a thunder hammer! His scream is fluffy and you shouldn't expect much from it, but it can be fun to use it to kill the odd enemy.

 

His only problem is he is Eidolon, but if you can get past that put him in a 20 man assault squad and wreck face.

 

Ancient Rylanor

Being a venerable contemptor should be enough to take him, even if he does have a heavy flamer rather than a cooler secondary weapon. His mantle of glory makes him amazing. Plus one to combat results within 24" means you can worry a bit less about assaults as you are already wining. As part of a pre heresy combo list he can be deadly

 

Saul tarvitz

An average centurion with a sniper rifle. Nothing really special here. You can make better builds from the normal centurion options, only missing out on his broadsword.

 

Lord of war

Fulgrim

Not a beat stick primarch. Indeed he is the only primarch (though mortarion could possible join him in this special club) unable to deal with walkers in assault. However he can hold his own in an assault and gains attacks based on how much better he is that his opponent in a dual, shame there is no overkill in 40k.

 

However he is a force multiplier. Just by having him on the battle means you are going into every assault with a +2 combat resolution.

 

He also allows you to reroll all reserve rolls (which is kind of countered by his legions rite of war). Finally he gets to chose his warlord trait.

 

If you are feeling blood thirsty you can give him paladin of glory and his unit and all units within 6" gain another +1 to their combat resolution. Play a pre Isstvan list with ancient Rylanor and that can go up to +4! Just turning up can make the enemy run and be caught and killed in the sweeping advance!

 

Rite of war

Can't take cataphractii war plate, tarantula sentries or rappers, can be annoying, but nothing serious,

Can't takes allied marines or fortifications, again no big deal, can still take imperial army bullet soaks.

Must take a legion champion. As such the rite costs 85pt (plus upgrades) and an HQ choice

The enemy warlord becomes a two point swing. This is a big deal. The enemy starts out with 1vp, when you kill their warlord they lose this vp and you gain one. Tis is the best way to see this part of the rite. When the enemy warlord dies you "gain" two VP. Here's to hoping they hadn't brought a primarch.

 

All emperor children units on the board gain +1" to all their move to in their first turn, if you go first this extra 2" (move and charge) could mean you get into combat, but apart form that it is pretty useless.

 

Upto 3 elite or fast attack units of your choice arrive on the (pre determined) turn of your choice and don't count towards reserves and they gain outflank. Extra reserves can be nice, turning up when you want is only so so. If you take Fulgrim you could argue you have better choice of the turn of arrival.

 

You also need to look at the units available.

 

Destroyer, can already scout with their moritat buddie, though this is another approach for them

Veteran tactical squad, can be nice for snipers or tank hunters

Terminators, outflanking scoring terminators, sounds juicy

Tech marines, looks like they got lost

Dreadnoughts, 1 to 9 angry old marines turning up on the flank, that will run someone's day

Contemptors, just like the dreadnoughts, but so much worst.

 

Edit for fast attack units

Primaries-lightning strike, an out flanking flyer armed with phosphex bombs and sunfury heavy missiles you say, why thank you. Or what about three twin linked rad missile launchers to remove twenty man blobs. It probably doesn't need out flank, but turning up when you need can be useful and out flanking will allow a bomb drop on a further easy weapon attack

Javelin attack speeder, speeders should be able to attack turn 2 anyway, however this stops them being shot at.

Seeker squads, could be a way to get some combi metals close to the enemy armour units, or a marked for death heavy support squad

Outriders, with twin linked melta guns they can quickly get to grips with the enemy armour, but scout helps them with that anyway. Though reserving and outflanking does mean they are shielded from attacks, in the enemy first turn, just hope their armour is close to the board edge.

Attach bikes, with multimeltas they can easily outflank into enemy armour, as they don't need to get as close as the outriders.

Jetbikes, already have the range and movement not to worry about needing to outflank. Could be useful to attack enemy heavy weapon units

Land speeders, same as for attack bikes, though they already have deep strike.

Storm eagle, could hover in and drop off a big blob of assaulty goodness, though by the wording of the rules, it might not be able to carry anything.

 

Synergy

The third legion are all about working together to achieve maximum damage, unless your name is Eidolon in which case you just kill things.

 

Fulgrim, Ancient Rylanor and the Phoenix guard all help out in near by assaults. With Fulgrim, naturally, being the best.

 

I would suggest taking Fulgrim when you can, and ancient Rylanor when plating pre heresy, to get the most from combat res. this also means you don't need to max out on squads, so each squad will have an innate combat modifier, so won't need to inflict as many kills to win combat. This also means you don't need to worry about exposing your support squads, as they have a chance of seeing off small to medium sized squad, just by being there.

 

If you are taking Fulgrim then you should also thing about taking the rite of war andoutflank some short ranged contemptors

 

Armed with a selection of assault cannons, power fists, plasma blasters and graviton guns they can make a pretty mess of flanks. They also won't suffer form the usual Dreadnaught close combat problems of not being able to kill enough to force a break test, as Fulgrim gives them +2, which means with jus one kill the enemy marine unit is down to ld6

[Prodigal Son of Magnus]

Actually Phoenix Guard have Tartaros armor so they can still sweep.

[Dumah]

Actually Phoenix Guard have Tartaros armor so they can still sweep.

 

Terminator armor can never Sweeping Advance. Tartaros can, however, overwatch (moot in the case of PG) and run (unlike Cataphractii which can do neither due to Slow and Purposeful).

[Elazar The Glorified]

There aren't any different rules for Tartarus Armour in the HH books

[Dumah]

There aren't any different rules for Tartarus Armour in the HH books

 

Yes, that's what I was getting at...

[Vile Siren]

So does anyone have any ideas on a good well rounded EC army?

[spu00sed]

We are all trying to figure that out.

 

Our legion rules wargear makes us a close assault army, but without any good close assault options. However they synergies very well with our primarch, and to a lesser extent with ancient Rylanor..

 

For example if you win combat by one the enemy has a 72% chance to past their leadership test, 84% with a vexilla.

 

If Fulgrim hanging out on the field this drops to 42% and 53% respectively.

 

Then our chance of sweeping goes from 62% to 82%, Whitt taking into account theatre initiative that sonic shriekers gives characters.

 

Our list is designed to break and destroy the enemy in combat, without any specialised close combat weapons.

 

I can see contemptor talons being really good, as long as the enemy sergeant doesn't have a power fist or melta bombs.

[Kol Saresk]

Is it possible that the RoW are designed for the larger games when something like a Primarch or a SC would be more common?

[Russ Brother 92]

I'd say they almost certainly are - imo the RoW are there to push the specialist aspects of a Legion, the way NLs are brutal fighters but prefer a 2-1 not 1-1, or how IHs just trudge through incoming fire, their bionics lessening deadly blows or WEs tearing into combat etc. etc.

 

I can certainly see how they help/hinder at lower points though - having Rylanor head up a Jump force with more Contemptors and a Consul or 2 w/ Shriekers could be pretty mean.

[ImpiousSmart]

I've just thrown up my first 3k EC list in the army list section.  Trying to find the right blend of anti-troop, anti-tank, combat / shooting is really tough.  

 

With our legion specific units, it really feels like everything has to work more or less 100% correctly to be lethal.  Which is probably what I have in mind when I'm picturing the third legion fight.

[Dumah]

One would hope that the relative blandness of the EC options will be fleshed out further with upcoming books; we've seen the start of it with Kakophoni but I dare hope that further flavor and specialization may be added with the legion's descent into depravity.

[ImpiousSmart]

I offer daily offerings to the Ruinous Powers that Apothecary Fabius and his Terrata are in the next book. 

[Dumah]

I offer daily offerings to the Ruinous Powers that Apothecary Fabius and his Terrata are in the next book. 

 

This x 1000¹⁰⁰⁰. I've always been a huge fan of our resident, creepy, Dr. Feel Bad; there's so much potential there both fluff and crunch-wise.

[spu00sed]

Added my opinion on uses of fast attack choices in the rite of war special rule. My overview post, forgot them first time!

[ImpiousSmart]

@Spu00sed - great overview.

 

@Dumah - I'd gone through a range of emotions reading the HH books, but never actually disgust until Fabius in Angel Exterminatus. Truly sick, in the very best possible way. He'd have some fantastically gross special rules given the Legion list treatment.

[Dumah]

@spu00sed: thanks for including some of the thoughts we all shared that got wiped by the server hiccup; saved me the trouble of doing it over myself!

 

As regards Seeker squads, I think they could come in handy for taking out enemy warlords that are shy about advancing up the board. I wonder, can you give more than one Seeker Squad the same preferred enemy unit/character? If so, I might consider taking a few squads to infiltrate with a Vigilator or use as our Hidden Blade units. It would be fluffy, if not super effective.

[spu00sed]

Thanks for the support guys. If I have forgotten anything else let me know and I'll include it.

 

I'm really starting to like thunder of two lightnings as our hidden blade, primed to come in turn two.

 

Each armed with two twin linked missile launchers, with rad missiles, a phosphex bomb cluster, twin linked las cannon and a ram jet diffusion grid (and possible battle servitors controls). This will set you back a staggering 520pts, so is only really possible in 3k games but has a really massive alpha strike potential

 

Each one can drop two 5" phosphex bombs on a squad and separately target another squad with two rad missiles (and a twin las) at a second squad, or the twin las and two krak missiles at an enemy tank.

 

In addition, as you are outflanking you are showing the side armour to a large amount of the enemy and due to the ram jet diffusion grid it is technically side armour 12

[Dumah]

I had a thought the other day while rereading Fulgrim: by all accounts, the EC were known for having a more extensive Apothecarion than any other Legion, being rabidly opposed to imperfections of any kind, and I'm a little bit disappointed that there's nothing to represent that in the rules. For that reason, I've been mulling over ways to include a Primus Medicae and an Apothecarion detachment without losing that special EC flavor.

 

For the core of such a list, I was thinking something along the lines of 2 minimal Tac squads and a full Breacher squad with Apothecaries attached and a Primus Medicae (whom I shall name Fabius...) joining a unit of Palatine Blades with jump packs. The idea is for the Breachers to advance straight up the middle (just like good old Solomon Demeter used to do!), taking advantage of Crusader for run moves, and providing cover for the Palatine unit following right behind. Meanwhile, the two Tac squads will march slightly behind and to the flanks of the Breachers, laying down a hail of bolts. When the time is right, the Palatines and PM would activate their jump packs to hop over the Breachers and engage in close quarters.

 

From there, the Breachers will be in good position to charge into an ongoing combat to support the Palatines next turn. Obviously, the Apothecaries are there to make everyone harder to kill, and the Primus Medicae's ability to recover lost VPs could be handy. If points become tight, you could drop two Apothecaries from the Tac squads and just rely on the Breachers to absorb punishment at the front of the spear tip.

 

I like the idea of infantry-heavy formation tactics like this and with the Apothecary goodness, it strikes me as very characterful. Thoughts?

[ImpiousSmart]

I like the idea of fielding apothecaries since we had more of them than other legions, but at 3000 points I find it tough to squeeze them in - there's so many goodies to include.  Very EC like, and like you, I'm wanting to include a primus medicae suspiciously named Fabius...

 

I've kept my units down to 10 men to reflect a little of the fact that numerically we were the smallest (or amongst the smallest).  In my mind I imagine smaller squads being more of an EC thing rather than committing so many men at once.  In my 4000point list I've thrown in apothecaries to go with my tac squads.

 

Your plan definitely sounds like the cleansing of the Laer though :)

[spu00sed]

As others had said there are too many other good choices in the elite section (and Phoenix guard).

 

Terminators, palatine blades, contemptors.

 

Impioussmart, I would go for slightly larger squad sizes, about 15ish, at way you are running smaller units but not too smaller as to be destroyed to easily. Also remember there is a small unit tax to the about.

[Dumah]

I like the idea of fielding apothecaries since we had more of them than other legions, but at 3000 points I find it tough to squeeze them in - there's so many goodies to include. Very EC like, and like you, I'm wanting to include a primus medicae suspiciously named Fabius...

I've kept my units down to 10 men to reflect a little of the fact that numerically we were the smallest (or amongst the smallest). In my mind I imagine smaller squads being more of an EC thing rather than committing so many men at once. In my 4000point list I've thrown in apothecaries to go with my tac squads.

Your plan definitely sounds like the cleansing of the Laer though

That's exactly what I was going for! I'm really more of a concept guy than a numbers guy, and I'm not concerned about being competitive. Rule of cool, all the way!

@spu00sed - I still don't understand the hate towards Phoenix Guard. They're fast and they're scoring, and though they're only WS4, a full unit of 10 hitting on 4s isn't too shabby when your first round of blows are S5 I6 AP2. Obviously, you wouldn't want to throw them at multi-wound and/or WS5 units. But then, that's the name of the game; positioning yourself to engage the units you have the best chance of beating, and avoiding the ones you can't. They would do quite well butchering most other scoring units you'd like to wrest an objective from, especially with some ranged support.