Alternate Heresy Community Project

[Ace Debonair]

*Solid Gold Post*

Immortals it is, because that's just awesome.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Nah, I snatched "Storm Walkers" for the Minotaur's Terminator Elite and the Morlocks seem to have been post Ferrus Manus Medusa thing, not an X Legion thing, so Ace can have them.

 

They don't really seem to fit well with Fulgrim's Legion, though. I'd say Immortals would suit them better.

 

Thought:

To Immortals are a company of heroes, each with his own unique skills. Brother Saul the sniper, Tycho the demolitions expert, Eidolon the hammer master, etc.

 

Each is never seen outside his artificer power armor, and in spite of other Imperial forces reporting that specific Immortals were killed on a particular campaign they always turn up in another battle.

 

This is because when the guy who was named to the Immortals because of his great achievements with lightning claws and a jump pack dies, someone else who is really awesome with those tools is picked and assumes his identity.

 

Which is considered a great honor in the III Legion.

 

It is a much greater honor, and subsequently requires a much higher level of heroic deeds, to have one's own name inscribed on the roll of the Immortals, and ensure that there will always be a warrior with your name and skills fighting for the Emperor's Children.

That is just awesome, though I imagine it could cause confusion if any of them get promoted to captain. Possibly take from the cannon Custodes inscribing their names on their armour and have the names of previous title bearers inscribed inside the armour of somewhere?

[Wade Garrett]

That could work, Ridicully.

 

It depends on how Ace wants to use the Immortals:

 

Are they scattered throughout the Clan-Companies in small squads that operate outside the Legion command structure like canon the Palatine Blades, their own seperate company made up solely of the best of the best, etc.

 

I was thinking that there would be some Immortals who made it in based on their tactical and strategic skills, like Ulysses and Nestor in Greek mythology, and these roles would always be played by talented captains, Chapter Masters, and chieftains.

[Ace Debonair]

I actually figured the Immortals would be kept separate from the traditional leadership roles. Pretty much what Wade suggested in his last post - small squads like the canon Palatine Blades.

There might be some occasions where Immortals act as 'advisors' to less experienced Captains or Sergeants when necessary, of course.

...Part of me thinks the 'chief' immortal should be Lucius the Undying.

[Conn Eremon]

Is Lucius a Chemosian or a Terran? If the latter, dooo eeeet.

 

Makes me want to know what happens to Khârn of the Celestial Lions, Typhon of the Infernal Guard, and Ahriman of the Orders of the Sword.

 

Oh wait, last one is me. Hm. I will have to think on it, maybe ask Heathens if he had an idea already.

[Ace Debonair]

Darn, he was a Chemosian.

Although Lucius of the Iron Hoplites will be pretty damn cool as well, so no big deal.

Time to go look up notable Medusan Iron Hands instead.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Just thought, does anyone else think, that as none of the traitors initially were planning to kill the Emperor like in cannon, would that potentially mean that you would have Terran officers ect making much more impact post sundering as they wouldn't be the victims of a purge like in cannon, as they wouldn't be more inclined against Corax or to side with him.

[Wade Garrett]

I think things would be even more confused than the beginning of the canon Heresy, with Corax painting himself as the legitimate authority and Fulgrim and Jonson as usurping rebels.

 

I can imagine him making a speech where he proclaims the need to "rescue" the Emperor from Fulgrim and the Ad Mech, possibly even claiming to have evidence the Golden Throne was altered by Magnus, Anubis, and the Lightning Bearer to be a cage and torture device instead of a life support system.

 

For the Legions who would care, that is (Adrah'Melek, Lupercal, Bron?). The Minotaurs just want a good fight, Leman just wants to loot the everything, Barabbas's men are indoctrinated into nigh mindlessly doing what he says and he prefers Corax as the leader, and so on.

 

And of course Sanguinus is doing that voodoo that he do to make sure everybody is aboard the Chaos train when the time comes to besiege Terra.

[Conn Eremon]

Reminds me of the opening of the Siege of Vraks. An Imperial world that must prepare, for heretics come. Take over, seize weapons. When the Imperium arrives to retake the world, label them the heretics, go to war. Superiors begin wearing symbols, eight pointed stars, spreads to the rank and file, knowledge of what it means absent.

 

And so the fall to Chaos is slow, subtle.

[Wade Garrett]

I've been thinking of something different we could do with the eldar as well.

 

This alt-Imperium seems a bit more fragmented than the one we know and love (three major religions instead of one, Warmaster Jonson and High Lord Angron bickering over how the Imperium will look post Scouring instead of Guilliman's singular vision, etc).

 

What if we make the eldar more united? Behold, the Young Kingdom! Rising from the ashes of the old Empire, this realm is ruled by Eldrad I, Bearer of the Black Blade, with numerous species ground beneath the boot heel of King Eldrad and his High Council.

 

Kroot, tau, the demiurge, ioxatl and more are conscripted as fodder for the Young Kingdom's armies and to tend the unmarred expanses of its Exodite Worlds, their compliance enforced by the Craftworlds that patrol the length and breadth of this resurgent power.

 

Though it spans many systems, the Kingdom would still be drowned in a tide of vehicles, bodies, and ships should the Imperium of Man devote its full attention to destroying it.

 

But such a victory would come at a high cost, and leave the IoM vulnerable to the greenskin WAGGGHHs, tyranid swarms, Chaos worshippers, and the marauding bandits and renegades of the Free Systems.

 

So the two powers maintain a heavily armed and tenuous ceasefire, although border raiding, providing aid and advisers to internal dissidents, and all around low key bloodletting are common in every area where the two dominions border one another.

[Ace Debonair]

Soooo, I can't find anything stating one way or the other where any of the notable Emperor's Children or Iron Hands from the time of the Heresy were from, save for Lucius of Chemos.

So, my new plan as it stands is simple - let Heathens pick any of the canon EC he wants to repurpose for the Iron Hoplites, and then make use of anyone left over as an Immortal.

I'm all for making the Eldar a bigger threat. Anything that makes the Imperium seem more imperilled in 'modern' times is something I can approve of.

Also it'd be fun to see the Tau getting recruited by another alien race for a change.

[Wade Garrett]

+Serene Lord, this....from I, Emissary Who Watches.....has changed much during our................the Accidents of the Ancient Ones the Firstborn, and the Warforged............returned as well, not brought to serenity as we prayed. Beast of the Abyss moves the Accidents from its tomb, and the Dynast of the Firstborn bears with him a fragment of Herald of Entropy.

 

If our people are to survive in this new age, all tainted by the......must be....great stillness. All honor and praise to Godslayer Lord of Serenity+

 

-Attempted translation of a transmission intercepted by AER patrol ship Semper Vigilens, source and recipient unknown

[Conn Eremon]

RAGE. Nice long post got eaten by the mobile site deciding to be STUPID. Gah, rewritten ideas are never as good as the original.

 

What if the Eldar have this immense, Sectors-wide Protectorate of worlds and subordinate xenos to defend what little they can from what they see as the beginning of a far more destructive end than what they themselves suffered? They see Humanity on the same path they were on, and they know we are dooming the galaxy. So they protect what they can from us, to prevent us from taking everything down the drain with us when we inevitably collapse.

 

They are successful, too. The combination of heavy firepower and rapid deployment, our inability to pin them down, serves them well. They choose a location far to the galactic east. It is as far from the Eye as they can get, and it puts them near the realm of that ancient human hero, Angron, the one human to craft a society that might survive the coming catastrophe, but really because they are the least aggressively murderous of the other scions of those long dead abominations of human science.

 

However, their position has become more threatened. After a recent invasion by the humans, a species saved by the Eldar from destruction at human hands has rejected their authority in name of a Greater Good, destabilizing systems along their fringes.

 

Worse yet, an untold horror from far outside the galaxy has invaded, and it hungers for the worlds the Eldar have given so much of their blood to protect.

 

Edit: I am now imagining Ho Chi Minh/El Che Ethereals.

[Wade Garrett]

I was seeing the intentions behind forging the Young Kingdom as a bit less benevolent.

 

Basically, during the Heresy Eldrad saw a vision of two futures:

 

In one, his people lingered on for aeons as the fading embers of lost glory, becoming less and less with every passing century and finally vanishing into myth and legend.

 

The other involved a return to glory and greatness, with lesser beings kneeling before the true rulers of the galaxy, and instead of slowly passing into the dust, a final battle of thunder and fury that will drag all creation with them when they go.

 

And he picked up the shard of Nightbringer the Blade of Midnight and went with option B.

[Conn Eremon]

It'd be retreading the same ground for me. I'd rather avoid a reborn Eldar Empire, only because I would have more fun exploring a new concept.

 

If the majority want to explore that anyways, I am fine with leaving it to you guys and not involving myself in it.

 

Edit: That said, if the issue with my idea is benevolence, that can be excised while staying true to it.

[Wade Garrett]

That was the sum of my problems with it, yes.

 

I will concede that the Protectorate is a better name than the Young Kingdom as well, although I fully intend to dig in my heels on making Eldrad more like Elric of Melnibone.

 

Thought:

If the eldar can make soul stones work for other races, they'd have one of the few methods of functional immortality that don't require bowing to a Warp entity.

 

"Join us and you can live forever" is a pretty good selling pitch, although it should be limited to just the ruling class of the species that accept their "wise guidance".

 

And I imagine they don't mention the fine print about all those souls eventually being used to create a new god to beat up Slaanesh.

[Conn Eremon]

Rereading your prior post, we can utilize Option B as a means to get rid of the benevolent aspects. Really, it wasn't what I was going for. I was imagining a haughty, proud Noah saving two of every thing because if you are going to rule you need something to rule over. It is just that a lot of the whole Eldar resurgent/New God thing I explored with the GH. We can go that route, but I would have more fun if we didn't. That, and I don't want to reach a point where I come up with something to add and can't choose which Heresy I should being it up in.

 

 

 

"This galaxy belongs to the mon-keigh," Eldrad pauses and raises his hands to quell the outpour of denial. "But they are doomed, as we were once doomed. Their calamity is at this moment playing itself out upon their homeworld, as their own abominable creations tear apart what little their civilization had to be proud of. No matter what life remains to them at its conclusion, they have fallen upon their own swords. As of this moment, the galaxy's newest masters are dead, their future stillborn. As we survived our own, we shall survive their fate. And, in the void left by the death of lesser beings, we will return to our rightful place."

 

They would probably cheer at this point, if poor Eldrad had a better speech writer.

[Wade Garrett]

I have been studiously avoiding the Guilliman Heresy threads so as not to idea poach, but perhaps I should delve into them to see what themes are already being played with by other B & Cers.

 

Perhaps the bulk of the Protectorate is made up of low tech xenos races and Exodite eldar, with the only evidence of the Craftworld forces being the evil fates that befall Rogue Traders and colonial fleets sent into that area of space, and the legends its inhabitants tell of a coming apocalypse they will be spared from by their submission

to unknown defenders from the stars.

 

There are a few departments of the Imperium and a couple of Astartes Sucessors charged with solving the puzzle of why these Emperordamned Ewoks

less advanced cultures have resisted Imperial, Ork, and Chaos encroachment but it isn't really a priority.

 

And a thumbs up on guerilla/terrorist Tau, utilizing the firepower and mobility of their battlesuits to wage devastating strike-and-fade campaigns in spite of their tiny numbers.

[Wade Garrett]

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea that the Protectorate isn't a revived eldar empire, but a section of space with "Here There Be Bad Things of An Unknown Nature" written on Imperial Star Charts, a Bermuda Triangle on a galatic scale.

 

When Craftworld Forces do deploy in bulk, they tend to be wraiths and battle automatons (like the Croneworld guardians in Angel Exterminatus). Sighting a live craftworlder is very rare, and most who do don't live to talk about it.

 

As far as the nature of the wraiths...psychic projection of an eldar spirit locked in a soul gem, which will eventually reform as long as the gem is not destroyed.

 

I think the idea that in this universe the Craftworld eldar rely on their dead to do most of the fighting while they watch their future thrall races from the shadows, waiting for mankind to destroy itself is sufficiently different.

 

Also, in the GH threads I saw a post asking why the Eldar didn't act to aid the Imperium during the Heresy. (Probably because the Emperor was very pro dead eldar).

 

But in the (needs a name) Heresy, the Eldrad and his kin plan to pick up the pieces after the Imperium implodes. Might they not throw a little aid Corax's way as a means of hastening Humanity's immolation by the Dark Gods?

 

To counteract this, the Loyalists get a helping hand from...Asdubral Vect. Wait, hear me out!

 

For reasons either personal (Eldrad moved to off Vect and with his powers enhanced by a Nightbringer shard he came close enough to make the lord of Cormorraugh scared and angry), philosophical (Vect feels living surrounded by enemies and having to hunt to survive is what will make the eldar strong enough to outlast gods, not hiding in holes, and anyway the planned revived empire would be frightfully dull to live in) or both, kabals throw some quiet assistance to the anti-Corax faction, more as a raised middle digit to Eldrad's plan than from any love for humanity.

 

With Cormac's permission, I can see the Jackal being the most amendable to this sort of "enemy of my enemy" scheming (possibly handing the DE the defense plans to some of the worlds Lupercal "liberated" during his and Adrah'Melek's Crusade of Fire).

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Could it be an idea to have the eldar craftworlds each at the center of Protectorates/young kingdoms, with no single ruler but occasionally a high king is chosen, with Eldrad advising/manipulating from the sides, rather then one big one, so as to avoid the question of how all the craftworlds got moved to one place.
Could be an idea to have a few later renegade warbands of Astartes submit to the eldar, seeing their leadership as the best way to protect mankind.

[Wade Garrett]

Quick little summary of things we've covered so far:

 

The Primarchs and their fates:

 

Jonson of the I Legion:

Ascends to the position of Warmaster post Heresy and restructures the Imperium, but is blocked in many of his ambitions by the Council of Terra, with the opposition often being rallied by his brother Angron.

 

Fulgrim of the Emperor's Children:

Leads a decapitation strike/assassination on his brother Roboute Barabbas during the Scouring. As the legions clash below, the Sons of Barabbas fleet virus bombs the embattled world. Fulgrim's body is never found.

 

Lorgar "Cleftjaw" of the Imperial Hounds:

Survives the Heresy and Scouring, falls in battle holding back the First Black Crusade.

 

Adrah'Melek of the Infernal Guard:

Ascends as a Daemon Prince of Khorne during his campaign against the Palatinate

 

Leman Barbedor of the Red Corsairs:

Presumed to have been slain during the Scouring, but no body was ever recovered.

 

Roboute Barabbas:

Ascends as a Daemon Prince of Nurgle during the Scouring after subjecting himself and Fulgrim to the Life Eater virus.

 

Rogal Dorn of the Blackened Fists:

Dies killing Ferrus Mordax on Vilamus in the opening stages of the Heresy.

 

Ferrus Mordax of the Minotaurs:

Dies killing Rogal Dorn on Vilamus.

 

Anubis of the Solar Tigers:

Slain by Lanista Corax during the Siege of Terra.

 

Angron of the Celestial Lions:

Appointed as a High Lord of Terra post Heresy. Grapples with Warmaster Jonson on every issue imaginable. In spite of their animosity, the two Primarchs unite to defend the Sol system against the attack of the Silent King's World Engine. He and the Jackal are last seen fighting back to back amidst a sea of Necron warriors aboard the damaged Engine as it retreats into a Dolmen Gate.

 

Lanista Corax:

Slain by Konrad Dominus and Fulgrim during the Siege. (Thought: With no Emperor to soul flay him, does that leave an opening for him to one day return?)

 

Not yet nailed down:

Perturabo of the Iron Hoplites

Omegon of the Efreet

Alpharius of Cerberus

Sanguinus of the Angels

Magnus of the Order of Swords

Lassertine Bron of the White Scars

Konrad Dominus of the Executioners

Lupercal of the Astral Wolves

[Ace Debonair]

Bron offically may or may not be a daemon prince. He's going to appear mostly unchanged if he is one, although tales might abound of his ability to take other, far more terrifying forms. A creature with six arms and lizard-like features that breathes fire, a giant with two heads and a voice that shakes the earth itself as he laughs his way through the slaughter, a black cloud that animates a suit of armour and is impervious to any form of harm... all these nightmares and a dozen besides claim to be Lasartine Bron, the Worldburner.

 

Lupercal should totally get killed somewhere, somehow, but I'm not sure who should do the deed.

 

Part of me says Perturabo, because the Shield Bearer is a bona fide badass and killing Lupercal, even in self-defence, is likely to be a moment that makes the whole galaxy aware that Perturabo is an A+ player.

 

Another part of me says Jonson should get the kill, or possibly even arrange things so that it's not required for the Palatine himself to face down the Liberator, and Lupercal dies at the hands of Jonson's rank and file marines.

 

The other part of me says Adra'Melek. I can't see Lupercal and Melek being very friendly after the war they engage in with Jonson, nor do I imagine the Burned Man being pleased at not killing either Jonson or Lupercal.

[Conn Eremon]

If Bron and the White Scars join Tzeentch, I would like it if he does become a Daemon Primarch. We should let the four gods get their trophy wives.

If we echo canon Heresy, three of the Unaligned Primarchs should die at some point, and two of them should ascend. We know Corax dies. We know Sanguinius ascends. I think we have the traitor twin die. That leaves Leman and Lupercal, right?

Leman is listed above as being killed in the Scouring, but Lorgar is killed after the Scouring, during the First Black Crusade. I am fine with that order, but wasn't there a bit where Leman comes up to his fallen foe and watches him die, a bit of regret in his soul? If we want his death to be an "unknown," then we should do away with any references to his existence afterwards and just make it seem like his forces might still be under the control of a Primarch, though no evidence is ever seen. Like canon post-Heresy Alpha Legion.

As for Lupercal, I had proposed that perhaps we do something new with Adra'Malek's ascension and have it use Lupercal himself as the catalyst-sacrifice. Mostly, because it'd be an "Oh, " moment, give Malek's ascension a big punch, and let me keep Jonson alive. I don't think it was commented on when I first brought it up, but it sounds like you might be cool with it?

If Lupercal dies, maybe Leman could become the other Daemon Primarch, if we want to keep that ratio.

But then, I think we have Ferrus Mordax "surviving" the Heresy. Not an ascension, but as a "Here I am!" "NO! I am here!" "You aren't Ferrus, I'M FERRUS!" *cue Primarch free for all as forty cyborg Angrons kill themselves*

So I don't know. An Undivided Daemon Primarch that is aloof of Chaos, like canon Perturabo, would be nice. Barbedoro could fulfill that role. Sanguinius would definitely be like canon Lorgar, but without ten thousand years of bed sores. At the same time, I rather like the idea of free, roaming fleets of pirates.

I don't know, I'll leave it up to you guys. Either we keep Leman as "dead," and the Red Corsairs a bunch of independent fleets with a common port of call, or the Red Corsairs keep their Pirate King, even if he rarely leaves said port of call. If we go with the latter, I suppose it would allow Lupercal's Astral Wolves to expand more into the independent and free ad hoc warbands, as they should be, without stepping on Red Corsair toes.

[Wade Garrett]

Well, I'm fine with cutting the bit about bits about Leman soliloquying over Lorgar's corpse if it's a hang up the storyline.

 

Any opinions about my idea for the Craftworld eldar becoming ghosts in the shadows, going to great lengths to lead the galaxy at large to believe that they were

all wiped out in the Fall or possibly during the Great Crusade?

[Ace Debonair]

Regarding Lupercal's early demise:

I'm fine with that, to be honest. Lupercal would get a bit stale after the Great Atrocity anyway, what with being grumpy at everyone for being all oppressive. So instead of having him try to build his own empire and failing, we can splinter his Legion early, having them go about their own business in their own way.

Some of them might report back to the Warmaster, blaming Jonson for the whole mess. Others might strike out against Chaos-heavy factions, and others still might just go and liberate worlds as and when the mood takes them.

Good times!

I'm ok with Bron being a Daemon Prince, but ideally I'd like to have him appear largely unchanged, with various shadowy rumours about him having many guises. He'd still carry on with his usual 'threaten a planet into surrender, then kill it to the bedrock if they refuse' tactics, so a mostly-human appearance would be useful to him.

The difference after the Heresy/Atrocity is that with his dream of galactic peace down the drain, Bron goes mad without ever quite realising it, causing billions of deaths on random worlds while screaming about peace, instead of only causing horrors to create lasting peace.

Regarding Eldar going into stealth mode: Sounds alright to me. I'd imagine the Cerberus/Effrit Legion being the biggest thorn in the side of the Eldar, with their penchant for sneaking and information gathering.

...I can't even remember which of the twins stays loyal, in the end.

I must need more sleep.