The Highlander Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Could it be possible to use a crusade-era army in a 40k match (minus special characters though) ? Like have some Cataphractii & Sicarans go against chaos space marines and just call them a chapter with hidden knowledge? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282392-legions-in-40k/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Aiwass Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Yes of course. Maybe I'm biased because I'm going to use 30k era Night Lords against 40k Blood Angels, Tau, Nids and Crons, but hey! :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282392-legions-in-40k/#findComment-3504956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Or a Chapter with relics. According to Forgeworld, the HH armies are unbalanced compared to mainstream 40K and usually require concessions given to the 40K army. I believe there are suggestions for such concessions in their Betrayal FAQ. From what I have heard from other players, the lists usually are still balanced against the mainstream Codex-armies with and without the concessions. Personally, I have no earthly idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282392-legions-in-40k/#findComment-3504962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hisdudeness Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 30k lists are very balanced against 40k codexes. Even Primarchs are not over powered. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282392-legions-in-40k/#findComment-3505026 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Considering a two or three heldrake army could potentially table your whole army haha, you probably have nothing to worry about balance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282392-legions-in-40k/#findComment-3505104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 I played against tau just yesterday the rip tide took angron out by the start of turn 3. It's pretty evenly balanced Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282392-legions-in-40k/#findComment-3505112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adra'Melek Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/B/Betrayal_FAQ_Errata_v.2.pdf Last question. Basically they should be fine with 40k armies but there might be a few oddities that crop up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282392-legions-in-40k/#findComment-3505161 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darog Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 No, see fw faq Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282392-legions-in-40k/#findComment-3505396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 No, see fw faq Q: Are the armies and units in the Horus Heresy books by Forge World meant to be used in games against regular Codex armies, such as say Grey Knights or Orks? A: While Forge World’s on-going range of Horus Heresy books and their game content are all designed to use and be compatible with the Warhammer 40,000 rules, they have been fine-tuned and focused on playing battles in the milieu of the Horus Heresy rather than in conjunction with the Codexes representing warfare in the 41st Millennium, and this will remain the case. Designer’s Note: This means that while you are, of course, free to have fun and play games against your friends using any forces you like, and Horus Heresy forces will be broadly ‘a fair fight’ with Codex forces of the same scale, certain rules anomalies and inconsistencies may be thrown up that you have to deal with, although these should not seriously affect the game in most cases. (For example, certain units, such as those with the Stubborn special rule are at a premium costing in Horus Heresy armies over their regular Codex counterparts, owing to the results of play testing within their own sphere.) In terms of using Lords of War and the Primarchs, however, these are definitely not intended to be used in standard Warhammer 40,000 games, but only in games where both sides use the Age of Darkness Force Organisation chart, and the specific provisions within, and in games of 2,000 points or greater. Designer’s Note: So if, for example, you wanted to play a battle representing a narrative where the Sons of Horus Legion fought Orks or Eldar during the Great Crusade, you could quite easily use those xenos forces’ Warhammer 40,000 Codexes (possibly house-ruled to accommodate larger squads) to proxy for their Heresy-era counterparts. In this case, however, both sides should be using the Age of Darkness Force Organisation chart, with the army’s own Apocalypse level units and flyers available as Lords of War entries following the guidelines found on page 184 of Betrayal. It might just be me, but nowhere do I see anything that says you can't use HH armies against 40K armies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282392-legions-in-40k/#findComment-3505415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Yup - I mentioned it to the guys at my local group, none had a problem even with Primarchs where we've agreed that if I get a Primarch then they get an equivalent (Stompa/Baneblade etc.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282392-legions-in-40k/#findComment-3505460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 I used blood angels (codex) vs deathguard (legion) last week and my blood angels were for tjr most part fairly balanced. In big games itd probably be reasonable for 40k lists to use formations where possible (next time I want to use the battle company formation) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282392-legions-in-40k/#findComment-3505466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 I used blood angels (codex) vs deathguard (legion) last week and my blood angels were for the most part fairly balanced. In big games it'd probably be reasonable for 40k lists to use formations where possible (next time I want to use the battle company formation) I think that's the other balancing factor - when you get to 3k+ BOTH players have access to specialist stuff the other doesn't (like Legions have Primarchs, Fellblades and Predator Squadrons but Codex have Battle Companies, Vindicator Squadrons and Centurions) so it should all balance out... that and I'm sure a Shadowsword will still wipe Angron off the board in a turn or two. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282392-legions-in-40k/#findComment-3505591 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noserenda Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 We've played loads of games mixing them without too much trouble, in fact the 40k armies tend to win if anything... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282392-legions-in-40k/#findComment-3505627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elazar The Glorified Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Hss been the trend in our gaming group that the 40k armies come out on top but fairly well balanced whichever FOC you use :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282392-legions-in-40k/#findComment-3505630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 The Horus Heresy books plainly aren't just variant Codex lists, it's a different game using the same rules. You can tell they're not designed for it, and accordingly balanced for different games, but it's easy enough to play. A friend of mine played Bretonnians against 40K Orks once. Same thing, really. Different games, not designed to be balanced against each other, but possible due to mostly the same rules, and only a jerk would go all Fun Police on someone and say not to do it. (I'm a bit of a jerk, as we'd never do it in our campaign, but I'd never think anyone sucked for doing it elsewhere.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282392-legions-in-40k/#findComment-3505655 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 'Cant use' is silly in this case as a definitive answer. The HH books are tilted towards the hobby/casual/fluff, whatever, realm (See Rites of War) and as such are aimed at the player who is generally going to be more open to house rules, custom rules, scenarios of their own design, and so on. Would it be a GOOD game? Well that depends on ones definition. I have definite concerns against my Word Bearers bringing in Daemons for example, because Daemons are a 40K product and as noted in the FAQ, go through a...different style of play testing perhaps. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282392-legions-in-40k/#findComment-3505671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dono1979 Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Under 2K the 30K lists are normally at a significant disadvantage, their inflexible doctrine shows through while the 40K opponent normally has a far more versatile force to play with. While the 20 man bolter squads can be very resilient, the offensive abilities of a >2K Legion list is quite limited. Still tremendously fun to play with though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282392-legions-in-40k/#findComment-3505744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Under 2K the 30K lists are normally at a significant disadvantage, their inflexible doctrine shows through while the 40K opponent normally has a far more versatile force to play with. While the 20 man bolter squads can be very resilient, the offensive abilities of a >2K Legion list is quite limited. Still tremendously fun to play with though. That's another aspect to the design, yeah. Heresy battles are designed for massive rates of attrition, and larger battles than standard 40K. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282392-legions-in-40k/#findComment-3505760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Under 2K the 30K lists are normally at a significant disadvantage, their inflexible doctrine shows through while the 40K opponent normally has a far more versatile force to play with. While the 20 man bolter squads can be very resilient, the offensive abilities of a >2K Legion list is quite limited. Still tremendously fun to play with though. That's another aspect to the design, yeah. Heresy battles are designed for massive rates of attrition, and larger battles than standard 40K. Do you have a built 30k force ADB? not painted of course :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282392-legions-in-40k/#findComment-3505777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Under 2K the 30K lists are normally at a significant disadvantage, their inflexible doctrine shows through while the 40K opponent normally has a far more versatile force to play with. While the 20 man bolter squads can be very resilient, the offensive abilities of a >2K Legion list is quite limited. Still tremendously fun to play with though. That's another aspect to the design, yeah. Heresy battles are designed for massive rates of attrition, and larger battles than standard 40K. Do you have a built 30k force ADB? not painted of course Good God, no. I even flubbed on my Tale of Five Heretics, slowing it to a crawl this year while I've been writing Talon and doing Dad things, but I'm getting some free time from mid-November onwards, and attacking my box of Blood Angel bitz. I accidentally started a Minotaurs army instead of my Chaos and Heresy armies. My bad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282392-legions-in-40k/#findComment-3506122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Considering a two or three heldrake army could potentially table your whole army haha, you probably have nothing to worry about balance. The anti-air options available in Massacre provide the opportunity for a 30k force to be of the best counters to massed Helldrakes armies :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282392-legions-in-40k/#findComment-3506136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 oooh do tell? I have yet to pick up massacre so what are we talking? Other than Thallax Cohorts, Whirlwind Hyperios and our own flyers that is... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282392-legions-in-40k/#findComment-3506223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Tarantulas that can be upgraded to Hyperios and Mortis Dreads are back, both regular and contemptors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282392-legions-in-40k/#findComment-3506226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Tarantulas that can be upgraded to Hyperios and Mortis Dreads are back, both regular and contemptors. I always get the lamest desire to stick Tarantulas to things. Tanks. Walls. Some guy's back. Badass. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282392-legions-in-40k/#findComment-3506269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 I can see it now - ADB's army of Minotaurs carrying Tarantulas - it would be a beautiful albeit weird site :p go for it. I like Mortis Dreads, even more so as my 40k guys (spes wulves) can't have them :/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/282392-legions-in-40k/#findComment-3506284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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