Shoulder studs-both shoulder pads?

[carlos_spiceyweiner]

As the title says, I've seen the shoulder pads with the studs on both shoulders, and I'm wondering what do you guys think? 

 

The Mk IV assault legs have them on both legs, so I was thinking why not on the shoulders?

 

Again, just asking for the opinions of the forum

[Disruptor_fe404]

In theory, one of the shoulder pads should show the Chapter insignia.

 

But! Given that the pauldron that's meant to have the Chapter insignia on it is also the one that's usually studded... Go for it if you like the look!

[Kaedes Nex]

There has been no precedence for it, and I had a long post written up about it but since it's just speculation, I'll just leave it at that. If you want to be fluff accurate, I would not do two studded shoulder pads. Note that even your legion specific double studded Mk IV legs do not exist in M41 and even the M31 version had only one studded shoulder. M41 suits only have one studded leg (Mk IV assault squad). Also, during the Heresy, there were no studded pauldrons for the right shoulder, unless we assume pauldrons can be installed on either shoulder then perhaps the victims of the Dropsite Massacre may be desperate enough to scrounge a studded left pauldron to place on his right shoulder.

 

However, there's certainly nothing wrong with having both shoulders be studded if that's the look you want to go for. Say it is a custom or unique feature from the Forge World that supplies your chapter. If you really want to get crazy, you can have studded Mk IV chestplate, studs on both Mk IV legs, and studs on both shoulders. Swap in a Mk V helmet with studs, and you'll Stud Central.

 

I think the most striking way to do the shoulder thing would be to have a chestplate that is mostly blank, so you can put a big old chapter symbol decal right in the middle. Because repping your chapter is way more important than having a few armored studs on your rear shoulder.

[Brother Pheidias]

Originally, studding was restricted to the left shoulder, as it was assumed this was the side a formation of Marines would expose to the enemy, and resources were scarce during the Heresy.

[Brother Tyler]

In truth, it is not uncommon for a Space Marine's panoply of armour to consist of components from multiple different suits/marks. For example, Captain Sicarius wears a suit of armour that is composed of a Mk 8 chest/gorget and Mk 4 legs/boots. While this might most often be considered a process that takes place on an honorary basis, with battle-brothers starting with a "pure" suit of one particular mark, there is sufficient room to say that some battle-brothers might actually be granted a suit "as-is," mixing multiple marks, upon first being granted a suit (naturally, the individual honours of the battle-brother that wore the suit before them would be removed). Also, each Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes has its own traditions.

 

Also, while the Codex Astartes provides a recommended standard for displaying Chapter heraldry, the Codex Astartes is not binding. The Iron Knights, for example, display their Chapter badge upon a tilt shield that is typically born upon the right shoulder. Anyone wearing studded shoulder pads upon both shoulders might similarly display their Chapter badge in any number of places, including a tilt shield, the chestplate, the helmet/forehead, a boot, etc.

 

So whether you want to adopt this for a particular individual or subset within the Chapter, or if you want to adopt it as the Chapter-wide standard, there are allowances for you to have twin studded shoulder pads if you desire. As a non-standard practice, it would certainly be distinctive upon the tabletop.

[reckoning]

Why not just put the chapter symbol where it usually goes and paint it across the studs? If done correctly it might just be pretty cool. It would certainly stand out.

[Major_Gilbear]

There has been no precedence for it, and I had a long post written up about it but since it's just speculation, I'll just leave it at that. If you want to be fluff accurate, I would not do two studded shoulder pads. Note that even your legion specific double studded Mk IV legs do not exist in M41 and even the M31 version had only one studded shoulder. M41 suits only have one studded leg (Mk IV assault squad). Also, during the Heresy, there were no studded pauldrons for the right shoulder, unless we assume pauldrons can be installed on either shoulder then perhaps the victims of the Dropsite Massacre may be desperate enough to scrounge a studded left pauldron to place on his right shoulder.

 

This may be more "modern" take on things, but I remember lots of RT-era art (and some 2E-era art as well) that had both pads studded. Even despite the newer fluff explanation for the studs (molecular bonding studs - where they used to be service studs originally IIRC), some art for studs on the the "wrong" shoulder persists. For example, from the new C:SM, in the Iron Hands section, there is this chap:

 

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130919032945/warhammer40k/images/thumb/6/6a/IronHandsMarkVI.jpg/329px-IronHandsMarkVI.jpg

 

 

Originally, studding was restricted to the left shoulder, as it was assumed this was the side a formation of Marines would expose to the enemy, and resources were scarce during the Heresy.

 

Yes, this is usually true. However, two other considerations:

 

1) Marines are supposed to be ambidextrous, and this is one of the points made when the "Godwyn" pattern bolters were detailed at the dawn of the 3E release. Therefore, either pad can be the one that faces into enemy fire! Furthermore, in the case of something like an Assault marine, where they might be taking fire from a number of directions and there is no instance of "one side to the enemy", there might be a strong case for both pads to be studded.

 

2) In the Heresy, when resources were tight, a lot of bodges and field-repairs would have taken place, as well as mix-n-match armour marks. If there is only a supply of studded pads for whatever reason when full suits were being doled out, I'd be happy to bet that they'd use the pads they had to hand - even if they were both studded. Similarly, a suit of MkIV with a damaged-beyond-repair right pad might have it replaced with a studded pad instead if that is all there was to hand.

 

 

In truth, it is not uncommon for a Space Marine's panoply of armour to consist of components from multiple different suits/marks. For example, Captain Sicarius wears a suit of armour that is composed of a Mk 8 chest/gorget and Mk 4 legs/boots. While this might most often be considered a process that takes place on an honorary basis, with battle-brothers starting with a "pure" suit of one particular mark, there is sufficient room to say that some battle-brothers might actually be granted a suit "as-is," mixing multiple marks, upon first being granted a suit (naturally, the individual honours of the battle-brother that wore the suit before them would be removed). Also, each Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes has its own traditions.

 

Also, while the Codex Astartes provides a recommended standard for displaying Chapter heraldry, the Codex Astartes is not binding. The Iron Knights, for example, display their Chapter badge upon a tilt shield that is typically born upon the right shoulder. Anyone wearing studded shoulder pads upon both shoulders might similarly display their Chapter badge in any number of places, including a tilt shield, the chestplate, the helmet/forehead, a boot, etc.

 

So whether you want to adopt this for a particular individual or subset within the Chapter, or if you want to adopt it as the Chapter-wide standard, there are allowances for you to have twin studded shoulder pads if you desire. As a non-standard practice, it would certainly be distinctive upon the tabletop.

 

I agree with all of this, and is generally how I understand things to be. Again of note:

 

1) Standard suits vs Mix-n-match; both are valid, although the latter are clearly less common.

 

2) The Codex Astartes is flexible. Just because there is a recommended place for a specific badge, doesn't mean the Codex doesn't condone altering or moving it to suit if required. The Chapter badge could be painted "under" the studs, on the corners or the pad, displayed elsewhere (on the knee or chest perhaps), or even on a tilt-shield as Brother Tyler suggests (great idea BTW). The Iron Hands example above has moved the company marking (which for the IH usually goes on the right shoulder) to the corners of the pads and also the right greave. In the Ultramarines 2nd company shown in the same book, where the chapter symbol is bumped to the right due to a studded left pad, the tactical markings are variously: overlaid, inlaid, moved to the corners of the pads, moved to the knees/legs.

 

 

Why not just put the chapter symbol where it usually goes and paint it across the studs? If done correctly it might just be pretty cool. It would certainly stand out.

 

I've seen this done before, and it can look great! Depends on the colours of the Icon, the armour and the studs though - it can sometimes look messy too. Since simple icons tend to look better, it might be worth considering a stylised simplified version if the regular version looks too cluttered. Using the Dark Angels chapter icon, dropping the wings and keeping the sword on its own would look more striking, and the full regular chapter badge can still be displayed elsewhere on he armour too.

[Brother Pheidias]

@Major_Gilbear: I totally agree with all your statements, and I seem to remember some pictures of marines with studs on both shoulders, as well as their greaves ;)