[HH1.0] Iron Hands Tactics

[Hesh Kadesh]

It is frequently taken that if you have Legion Rules, you don't get to choose, and is a case of FW's bad writing.

[Memento Of Prospero]

You can chose if you do not have legion rules.

 

At any rate, the resilience wins out the day for me. Pushing out plasma to 5+ to wound is huge.

it also makes you immune to bolter fire.

[Charlo]

You can chose if you do not have legion rules.

 

At any rate, the resilience wins out the day for me. Pushing out plasma to 5+ to wound is huge.

YUP.

 

Turns an average 8 man plasma rapid fire squad into only 3.5 wounds before any sort of saves. Nasty.

[Frostmourne]

I would love a Praevian with some lads.

[Emperors Teeth]

I read it as choose your Legion rule or one of the other options (scout/tank hunters). In fact, another person I know regularly uses a Praevian in his Iron Warriors. He chooses Tank Hunters as the IW Legiones Astartes rule is almost pointless with Castellax.

 

The unit of Battle-automata to which the Legion Praevian is attached gains the Legiones Astartes special rule possessed by the Legion Praevian or one of the following special rules: Furious Charge, Tank Hunters or Scout...

(Iron Warriors don't take Morale checks due to shooting attacks - Castellax are Fearless)

 

I've built my Praevian, and am cleaning up a pair of Darkfire-armed robots. Can't wait to smash up the battlefield with these boys.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Emperors Teeth

[Brofist]

One thing I've been thinking about, but haven't really mathammered out- ally in cybernetica for a magos and then attach him to the unit with the Praevian. If you take the cortica primus then you can use wizard powers, but otherwise I don't know what you really gain from it besides making the deathstar even more beardy.

[Frostmourne]

Iv been doing something similar today. Only to gain a Thanatar really though haha.

 

I have an old Thunderfire Canon Techmarine that would be perfect base for a Praevian.

 

I may drop Ferrus at 2.5 k and add him at 3. And use those points on another dread and a Praevian.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Still don't know how you're able tk attach a Character to a unit of Monstrous Creatures. Without getting into a rules debate regarding FW's questionable ability to write rules, Praevians, as written, cannot actually join units of MC's; must does not equal "can".

 

So taking a step back and saying that their choice of of wording is more unfortunate than by design, and you realise that rules parsing errors are rather par for the course, even beneficial rules you should really look at and make sure that they are without doubt; considering that the other rules regarding legion astartes rules refer to only getting them if you don't have them, and that special dispensation is made for Legion rules which otherwise wpuldn't trigger. Plus, saying that getting Fearless vs Shooting is pointless isn't saying much when NL's have the option to buy MC's the Fear special rule.

 

That also said, YMMV and its your table, your rules, and it's hardly the most broken thing out there. I just think it is worth mentioning as not all tables parse it the way you have.

 

If it works for you, crack on and reap the benefits!

[Charlo]

Rapiers are a bit silly but you mean to tell me ours cannon be hurt by bolters...

 

Oh my.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Rapiers are not T8 vs Shooting, they are T7, and lack Involate Armour.

[Charlo]

Don't they get legiones Astartes as the crew does, but use the T7 for shooting...?

[Hesh Kadesh]

Truthfully, the rule is non functional until used against model with the rule. You don't shoot models, you shoot units, and wounds are then allocated to models after rolling to wound. By the same argument, you could say that a Single IH model attached to a unit reduces strength.

 

Legiones Astartes (Space Marine Crew)

 

Models with the Legiones Astartes (IH) special rule reduce the strength of all shooting attacks against them by -1

 

You shoot a Unit, not models.

 

But that aside, as all shooting attacks are used against the Gun carriage, RACSD (as shown, RAW is nigh unuseable) is that you use the the rules of the thing you are shooting at. You are shooting at artillery, you use the toughness of the gun which lacks the Inviolate Armour special rule, and logically (As IH, you should be thinking this way :D) the dude doesn't throw himself in front of the gun to reduce their strength, then somehow benefit from the guns resilience. Shooting at a non IH unit with attached IH, do not reduce S. Shooting at IH with IH attached? Reduce S. Shooting at IH with non IH attached; reduce str.

[Frostmourne]

Played a mock game last night of a rough list against a 30k opponent. A good friend of mine and the guy who has just invested in Death Guard. And we had a great game.

 

But now I know i definitely want to have more Gorgons in my life!

[N1SB]

 

I want to try Orth in the Predator Squadron as he will amplify the quantity of hits from his own tank and improve the damage potential of all of them with Tank Hunters affecting the whole unit.

 

On that note, which is better, Orth in a Deimos Predator squadron or Orth in a Sicarian please?

[Raktra]

Sicaran. It's far too potent to pass up

[Charlo]

Sicaran Ventnor Orth. When you absolutely need to rek a tank.

 

Two S10 ap1 shots that roll two dice, pick the highest with rerolls.

[Frostmourne]

But in friendly campaign games, isn't that just boring overkill?

[Charlo]

Depends what they bring!

[Hesh Kadesh]

But in friendly campaign games, isn't that just boring overkill?

It still needs to roll a 5+ to destroy it, and costs 270pts minimum to run. Considering that even in friendly games a 5HP ubertransport is easy meat, I wouldn't have thought so.

[Raktra]

I prefer the standard for HP stripping anyways. That and the not-buggering up of sponson BS when firing the main gun... And if there's no tanks, hey, you've got a fistful of shots to eat infantry with.

[Shaolin_Monkey]

I'm still loving the idea of Orth in a Caestus. Planning to order one soon, may not be effective but it seems damned fun so I'm keen to try it

[Frostmourne]

 

But in friendly campaign games, isn't that just boring overkill?

It still needs to roll a 5+ to destroy it, and costs 270pts minimum to run. Considering that even in friendly games a 5HP ubertransport is easy meat, I wouldn't have thought so.

Fair play. I guess I just prefer a different type of HQ.

 

Looking into a Iron Father to lead my Gorgons at the moment.

[Emperors Teeth]

I took Orth in a Predator Squadron (auto/las) in a game last week to test it out. I was terribly disappointed . There is potential for awesome but the side-effects of being a slow moving squadron outweighed any potential benefit:

• My opponent was fielding a dangerously powerful (non-D) weapon with a large blast and a commanding field of fire. This forced me to spread the tanks out to prevent a potential triple hit with the blast more than likely doing a total of 3 hull points instead of just one. This saved a tank, but cost me some of my firepower, resulting in the return fire being ineffective.
• The tanks were slower, which I expected, but this meant I couldn't get out of where I'd deployed them in a reasonable time whilst also maintaining a decent fire rate. This could have been offset by adding Machine Spirits, but the cost is prohibitive - more than a Quad Gun Rapier for the squadron.

There may be more, but that was my experience. Perhaps I will try again someday, maybe even with different armaments (Magna-melta's?), but for now, Orth is requisitioning his Sicaran back!

[Memento Of Prospero]

Predators do not typically have weapons that greatly benefit from Orth's abilities. Auto Cannons and template weapons (plasma preds magna meltas) waste either the Tank Hunter for because of the low strength (S7) or the BS increase ( scatter distance reduced by 1)

[N1SB]

I took Orth in a Predator Squadron (auto/las) in a game last week to test it out. I was terribly disappointed . There is potential for awesome but the side-effects of being a slow moving squadron outweighed any potential benefit:

• My opponent was fielding a dangerously powerful (non-D) weapon with a large blast and a commanding field of fire. This forced me to spread the tanks out to prevent a potential triple hit with the blast more than likely doing a total of 3 hull points instead of just one. This saved a tank, but cost me some of my firepower, resulting in the return fire being ineffective.
• The tanks were slower, which I expected, but this meant I couldn't get out of where I'd deployed them in a reasonable time whilst also maintaining a decent fire rate. This could have been offset by adding Machine Spirits, but the cost is prohibitive - more than a Quad Gun Rapier for the squadron.

There may be more, but that was my experience. Perhaps I will try again someday, maybe even with different armaments (Magna-melta's?), but for now, Orth is requisitioning his Sicaran back!

 

Oh man, thanks a lot for testing this out in the field.  I'm sorry this field test probably wasted Orth's edge, but this information is very valuable for the Great Calculation.

 

Really appreciate this.  The question arose from how Horus Heresy's approach to HQ isn't so much that it's Herohammer, as much as they're actual Leaders that bring out the best in their troops with buffs.  In Orth's case, due to the nature of tank options, he's most valuable as an individual tank ace rather than a team-buff guy.