[HH1.0] Iron Hands Tactics

[Memento Of Prospero]

Orth would be a great pick here to augment your mild anti tank.

 

With 700, you can upgrade that tactical squad to a 20 man immortal unit in a Charybdis/Spartan! (wink wink)

 

Rapiers are a solid choice, and so would be gorgons or vets with transport.

 

A leviathan in a pod could wreck some havoc.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Any of you have success running Leviathans alongside your Iron Hands? In what capacity or role, loadout and transport if applicable?

 

Mine is on the way and I am hitching to model that bad boy!

[Antaonix]

I can't say I'm running it efficiently, but i used Leviathans three times. Siege drill&Graviton thing&Two Volkite Caliver. His role in my army is dealing with Imperial Knights or other Vehicle. And also, he is pretty good at 2+armor Infantry. I'm not using any transport for him. Because he acts as a counter to Enemy's assault force.

 

In first game, he died in turn 1 by 10 melta guns. The result was not satisfactory.

 

In second game, he killed single Imperial Knight before it attacks him. He can deal massive damage to vehicle. If you Penetrate Enemy's Armour with Graviton, they lose 2 Hull points. Also Siege drill is ap1, so even super heavy can lose D3 Hull points very easily.

 

In third game, He destroyed One Deathshroud Termintors and One Support squad. and destroyed by Grave wardens.

[Brofist]

I'm podding mine in with a melta lance and snippy claw this weekend. Will post results! 

[Charlo]

Best thing about leviathan and IH is auto sim and IWND. Absolute monster.

[Demonknight]

Is the storm cannon worth it?

[Charlo]

Is the storm cannon worth it?

Unless you face a lot of Mechanicum, no.

 

Yourr always really going to get better results against infantry with a grav bombard or vehicles with a drill/ Melta Lance.

[Demonknight]

What about storm cannon with a grab bombard?

[Slips]

And Sacrifice his CC punch? Not worth it.

[Demonknight]

So storm and claw is only good for mechanicum? Edited April 9, 2016 by Demonknight

[Slips]

No, Storm and Claw is the best for Mechanicum; the Grav Bombard is good for any Infantry, the Melta Lance for AV. The Storm Cannon is a weaker medium ground between both.

 

The Drill is S10 Armorbane and the Claw deals D3 Extra wounds on a 4+ for every hit.

 

Unless you're going up against mechanicum where you need MC Killing shooting, the Storm Cannon isn't worth it compared to the other options. It can help and do its fare share but in a general match up, its only good vs MEQ or weaker since its ignores their saves or Av12 or lower vehicles that it can glance reliably.

[Big Bad Squig]

Vaguely on the subject of mechanicum, I've been looking at a Cerberus tank destroyer for a while. I usually come up against mechanicum and tank heavy Iron Warriors, so it seems like a logical choice. Is it really worth getting when compared to a fleet of las-vindicators (apart from the obvious bonus of BIG TANK)?

[Raktra]

The claw's a good Primarch/EW killer too, so there's a thing.

 

Personally I'd rather two venators over a cerberus. It's just so meh for a marine superheavy :c

[nefarious squirrel]

IMHO a Cerberus is a much underrated vehicle. Its range and staying power over the venators i belive makes it a better weapons platform. That and a typhon are the only two SH's i like taking.

[Charlo]

Venator has my vote. It's speedy and super powerful.

 

Be a monster and stick Orth in it with Lascannon sponsons.

 

Goodbye AV.

[Leman Russ SW]

Problem of putting Las Canons on the Venator is that you can only snap fire them as the main gun is ordinance.

[Charlo]

Problem of putting Las Canons on the Venator is that you can only snap fire them as the main gun is ordinance.

 

Oh of course!

 

In which case take HB for weapon destroyed shenanigans.

[Brofist]

I'd rather have 3 vindicators in a squadron with machine spirit. That's in the same ballpark for points, with much more firepower. 1 vindicator ~= 3 rapiers, so a squadron of 3 is like taking 9 rapier teams. Very good for the slot albeit not as survivable.

[Demonknight]

So I have 3 leviathans coming, what would you equip them with? I was thinking of running them in a talon in higher pt games. I still want an effective one in lowergames.

[Slips]

Claw + Bombard + Phosphex

Drill + Melta

Claw + Storm + Phosphex (for MC Hunting if you ever need it)

 

Swap the Heavy Flamers to Volkite Calivers as you see fit; Armored Ceramite if you've got the spare points.

 

Preferably, you'd run them in solo talons and give them Pods so that they're effective right away instead of plodding up the board and being limited by their 18-24" Guns.

[Memento Of Prospero]

The Cerberus really need a flat amount od shots or D3+1 or D2+1.

 

It also need really good targets to excel, as it does not have raw killing power when it doesnt have sometime it can cripple with the feedback. It's sponsons are weapon and do not have the range to support the main cannon.

[Demonknight]

Great thank you all. :) Sicarian sponsons las or bolters? Still thinking of adding some sallies to my army. How many, unit composition etc.

[Caillum]

Sicaran Venators are best kept stock, or with a dozer blade at most. Neutron beam laser being an Ordnance weapon means everything else Snap Fires, like Leman Russ SW said. I hope the Cerberus gets a slight buff in the new LA:CAL, but there's not much disparity between it and the Sicaran Venator anyway. They each have pros and cons...

 

AVAILABILITY

- Sicaran Venators take up a Heavy Support slot each, which are highly contested in some armies.

- Cerberus is taken as part of a War Machine Detachment, which means you can also get a Typhon in larger games, but eliminates the option of a Primarch or any other Lords of War choice.

DRAW

 

DAMAGE OUTPUT

- Sicaran Venator has 2 Ordnance shots at 36" range with the Concussive and Shock Pulse rules, plus can Snap Fire any additional weapons.

- Cerberus has D3 Twin-linked Primary Weapon shots at 72" range with the Concussive and Shock Pulse rules, plus can fire any additional weapons at full BS, including at other targets. However, it also (inexplicably) has the Feedback rule.

DRAW

 

MOVEMENT

- Sicaran Venator is Fast.

- Cerberus is a Super-heavy, meaning it can move 12" anyway and also has no chance of being Immobilised.

CERBERUS

 

PRICE

- a Sicaran Venator with a dozer blade is just shy of 200 points.

- A Cerberus is basically twice the price.

SICARAN VENATOR

 

SURVIVABILITY

- Sicaran Venator has 13/12/12 armour and 3 HP.

- Cerberus has 14/14/13 armour, 6 HP and the Super-heavy type. This gives it immunity to Crew Shaken, Crew Stunned, Weapon Destroyed & Immobilised results, and it has the Fear, Move Through Cover & Invincible Behemoth rules. Also, it has a flare shield. :)

CERBERUS

 

Truthfully, they stack up comparably. 2 Sicaran Venators for the price of 1 Cerberus is a bonus that cannot be ignored, but a single Cerberus could potentially last longer than 2 Sicaran Venators. The Feedback rule is frustrating, but you want to Penetrate with the Sicaran Venator too, so there's a desire to get through a Super-heavy's armour anyway. Discounting Primarchs, I would probably say a Typhon & Cerberus in a War Machine Detachment is the 2nd-best Lords of War choice out there, with a turbo-laser Warhound being the best.

Edited July 5, 2016 by Caillum

[Memento Of Prospero]

A few things.

On the Cerberus:

-Since when does it have a flare shield?

 

-Competing with a primarch is a non issue under 5k points really. Plus the warmachine detatchment has much more value as the game grows. It's much better than the heavy support slots as you stated on a tank that can only deal with superheavies in a stellar way, and he value for the slot gets even worse as the game scales.

 

-the 72 inch range is huge. It can reach the back of apolcapytic tables turn one, while the sicaran venator can struggle to get in range for turn 2. This should give a decisive edge to the Cerberus. It's worth noting that Orth does really well riding it.

 

The Cerberus can Thunderblitz in a pinch.

[Brofist]

It's had a flare shield since book 1. I think the only thing really keeping it from going 'ok' to 'great' is an extra shot and tweaking that feedback rule. In our league we gave it the overcharged volley rule from the vindicator. It shoots D3 like normal, but you can overcharge and get D3 + 2 shots (but if you do that, you have to apply the feedback rule).