Space Wolves losing their edge?

[Blacksad]

who cares if your opponent draws first blood, when you draw all of his?

[Guest Drekkan]

I'm not gonna flog a dead horse.

 

Obviously, I play smaller games than you guys.

 

Therefore, the difference between victory and defeat is tighter, and secondary objectives makes you win or loose.

 

Thanks again for your patience and sharing the knowledge around.

 

Drekkan

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Be careful OP... any talk of Space Wolves Codex lacking in any way is grounds for flaming from the "old wolves"...

[Karack Blackstone]

The fastest way to "Fix" the glaring Codex SW issues would be 10 pt FAQ Flakk Missiles for our LF's.

 

The larger issue is the play balance of our Codex is that our named HQ's are around a Land Raider each; the new Codex: SM book is not anywhere close, unless you REALLY go overboard with the Relic.  Otherwise, points for points, yes, C:SM is a bit better.  The issue is, the meta of the game as a whole does not favor SW's.  That said, we are also not greatly hindered, however the blows to Dreads and similar non-shooting is the main thing noticable to me right now.

 

I love Dreadnoughts; don't get me wrong, they're great fire support platofrms, it's just a major issue when the points are better for the Venerable Dreads in C:SM to the point of being over the price of a five man GH pack in difference, with no upgrades.

 

We shall receive the new Codex we get, and I think if C:SM is even in the same county as ours will be, then it's going to be amazing the swing in the attitude here, and amongst other SW players.

[the jeske]

3 things . A it is harder to win with SW , then it was in 5th . B a lot of SW player don't want to play SW the way they should be played to be effective and C this is not the only large tournament where the number of SW players was rather low , specialy considering 5th .

 

The fastest way to "Fix" the glaring Codex SW issues would be 10 pt FAQ Flakk Missiles for our LF's.

No it realy doesn't. without interceptor no unit armed with str 7 RL does well against av12 flyers.

 

What SW lack right now is good str 6-7 multi shot platforms , that don't come out of the ally slot or the ability to self ally , that is if someone wants to have a "pure" SW army .

[Karack Blackstone]

3 things . A it is harder to win with SW , then it was in 5th . B a lot of SW player don't want to play SW the way they should be played to be effective and C this is not the only large tournament where the number of SW players was rather low , specialy considering 5th .

 

The fastest way to "Fix" the glaring Codex SW issues would be 10 pt FAQ Flakk Missiles for our LF's.

No it realy doesn't. without interceptor no unit armed with str 7 RL does well against av12 flyers.

 

What SW lack right now is good str 6-7 multi shot platforms , that don't come out of the ally slot or the ability to self ally , that is if someone wants to have a "pure" SW army .

 

I did put "Fix" for a reason, however, valid point.  Interceptor Flakk Missiles would also draw a great deal of hate, though, would they not?

 

I'll say this much: I'd not turn such a fancy missile down, if it's truly what we shall get.  Would prove nice, although there is the issue of if our LF's were issued Flakk with interceptor Missiles, what else would our Codex as a whole have to forgo that we might want instead?  There is always supposed to be tradeoffs; the question I would ask in reply to your post is just that: what's the tradeoff, no flyer, more points over a normal version, or would GW (reaching here) actually be nice to us and give us something pretty well everyone else would love to have?

[MaveriK]

The only time a son of Russ would ever lose their edge, is if the smile on our blades needs attention from a wet stone. This topic will become pointless and repetitive as people will keep going around in circles. It's easy to point fingers at other armies, but before anyone does one must look into a mirror as ask yourself.. What am I doing wrong? what am I doing to my army list that isn't effective or efficient? am I bringing in the right tools against a certain opponent? fire will always be weaker against water. Use your head, spend the points in the right way and not what you think is the easy way. Am I utilizing the synergy within each pack I place on the table? are my packs supporting one another? etc. etc. etc.

[Warhead01]

 

Be careful OP... any talk of Space Wolves Codex lacking in any way is grounds for flaming from the "old wolves"...

 

 For we are old and cranky.

 

But I am sure their could be some small tweaks here or their.

 What about just adding skills to the long fangs. maybe a once per game interceptor shot. Or just more Missiles. 

Better still would be a long fang pack with autocannons. even needing 6's that would do some damage. But I can't say for sure how good it would actually be. But I would field a full pack either way.

I do think list building is a large part of the "trouble". 

Has anyone chased down any air craft with Land Speeder tornados  yet? A squadron of them might do that well enough. And not be stuck in one job all game. 

[montegue]

Greetings. 

I took second in my local qualifier, losing to a nasty Necron list. Painting put me over the edge. Anyway, I was ultimately unable to attend the event for financial reasons. That being said, there would have been at least one more Space Wolf there. 

Now, I know the gut instinct is to get all Space Wolf pride-y and howl at folks who think we're left behind. However, the question is a legitimate one, and one that can be more or less answered objectively. Do we have the tools to handle the new codices and the new toys that have come out this edition? 

 

I went 2-1 in my last tournament, even tabling the dreaded screamerstar build. However, in the last game I got monkey stomped by a guy playing with White Scars tactics and about a dozen small units of bikers, a couple land speeders, and a predator. There's some things we don't handle well in the new books, and it's worth investigating in new ways to approach the fight given new circumstances and new enemies. 

Tau can literally blow us off the map without much effort. Eldar can, as well. We lack a lot of answers for fliers and have even less for flying monstrous lists. 

[the jeske]

Gold fish SW army

 

Biker RP chooser , divination

biker lord EW Wclaw+storm shield runic armor

 

2x5 GH flamer each . Yes no totem , no power weapons

 

2xLR Crusader

 

SM ally

Chapter master TH, eternal shield , bike

Biker units 2 gravs MM attack bike ax on vet sgt   <=HQs go here

Biker unit 2 gravs MM attack bike ax on sgt . mini squad

 

Fast , brutal shoting , boosted even more by divination. Anti side and anti WK . hard troops and POTMS FMC grounding platforms . with 2 +2sv HQin the main biker unit and the 2LR can ignore drakes as a troops problem . Hit and Run gives huge flexiblity to the List and 2 EW HQ can join different squads , run as  a tag team . finish survivors . All the bikes get better impacts , so tar pit hordes are hard to kill . It is not easy to get first blood , slay the warlord against this list , at the same time Line breaker with this list is rather easy. Not the hardest list to learn to play[it is a gold fish build] with the only realy bad opponent being stairs.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Gold fish SW army

 

Biker RP chooser , divination

biker lord EW Wclaw+storm shield runic armor

 

2x5 GH flamer each . Yes no totem , no power weapons

 

2xLR Crusader

 

SM ally

Chapter master TH, eternal shield , bike

Biker units 2 gravs MM attack bike ax on vet sgt   <=HQs go here

Biker unit 2 gravs MM attack bike ax on sgt . mini squad

 

Fast , brutal shoting , boosted even more by divination. Anti side and anti WK . hard troops and POTMS FMC grounding platforms . with 2 +2sv HQin the main biker unit and the 2LR can ignore drakes as a troops problem . Hit and Run gives huge flexiblity to the List and 2 EW HQ can join different squads , run as  a tag team . finish survivors . All the bikes get better impacts , so tar pit hordes are hard to kill . It is not easy to get first blood , slay the warlord against this list , at the same time Line breaker with this list is rather easy. Not the hardest list to learn to play[it is a gold fish build] with the only realy bad opponent being stairs.

Thunderwolves are just as fast.. and have better stats. Why not put the WL on a TW?

 

 

 

 

Greetings. 

 

I took second in my local qualifier, losing to a nasty Necron list. Painting put me over the edge. Anyway, I was ultimately unable to attend the event for financial reasons. That being said, there would have been at least one more Space Wolf there. 

 

Now, I know the gut instinct is to get all Space Wolf pride-y and howl at folks who think we're left behind. However, the question is a legitimate one, and one that can be more or less answered objectively. Do we have the tools to handle the new codices and the new toys that have come out this edition?

 

I went 2-1 in my last tournament, even tabling the dreaded screamerstar build. However, in the last game I got monkey stomped by a guy playing with White Scars tactics and about a dozen small units of bikers, a couple land speeders, and a predator. There's some things we don't handle well in the new books, and it's worth investigating in new ways to approach the fight given new circumstances and new enemies. 

 

Tau can literally blow us off the map without much effort. Eldar can, as well. We lack a lot of answers for fliers and have even less for flying monstrous lists. 

 

This is exactly what I was referencing in my thread. I am a new player in Warhammer period and 6th edition is the first edition I have played in. So far I have faced: Imperial Guard, CSM, Eldar, SW's, and Nids. The IG player was the first game and he took it moderately on me, game ended in a tie and was fairly educational. Other than one game in which I really spanked a nids player I got manhandled quite a bit by the opponents, most outcomes being tables. For the newer codices, it always seemed like there was "some rule" that really made life difficult.. whether those were re-rolls, or weapons I couldn't take a save against, or blood lances making my LRs nothing but point sinks that e'sploded really quickly. I've never played a tournament, but I cringe to think about playing against a Cron air list, or a Mechanical chicken spam list (yes.. I know there are ways to deal with them) I think Wolves are great, but the older codex does hurt. Can we be competitive and have fun? Yes!... So I am told. When is the last time a Wolf player took first in a tournament? When is the last time this happened without allies? I think objectively, there are a lot of troubles for the wolves in this new 6th edition environment. Are we useless... far from it! I just feel, as I am sure many of my wolf brothers feel, pretty frustrated in this land of 'limbo' we're in. It's possible that's just what I get for being a lowly blood claw gaining combat experience and attempting to climb through the ranks. 

[sn33r]

The anti air is easy hyperious missile launchers rock for only 35 points each. What we lack is things like 5 hammernators in c:sm is 225 points ? Librarian in tda mastery level 2 with storm shield 125. Our terms are so over priced and we lack a big punch.

[the jeske]

Because you don't need TH/SS termis [and if you did you can ally in sm ones, its not like you will take more then 1 unit per army anyway] WG termis are there to give +2sv tanks for pod units  and protection from helldraks to LF units .

 

 

Thunderwolves are just as fast.. and have better stats. Why not put the WL on a TW?

 

because a TW can't turboboost and you need the SW HQs to run around with the SM bikers.