[HH1.0] Salamanders Tactics

[depthcharge12]

No, but that harkens back to GW's general lack of understanding of balance and overestimating the power of dreads, particularly in CC.

 

The stock non-Mortis contemptor is 175pts, while the Mortis pattern is 155pts.

 

Oddly enough, the non contemptor variants (normal dreads, both mortis and vanilla) are 125pts.

 

Makes you tilt your head.

 

A vanilla contemptor with two MM is more expensive than the Mortis version.  And the vanilla contemptor with two DCCW and two melta guns is 205pts.  Just confusing.  Balance!

 

 

Wait.

 

 

So for the same stats plus skyfire at a cheaper cost?

 

Whut???

[Blacksails]

Skyfire and interceptor!

 

I know!  I like to think FW is a little better with balance than GW main, but they're all still GW at heart.  Some derpy little balance things.

 

Oh, I will point out that the vanilla contemptor is WS5 and has Fleet...whereas the Mortis is WS4 and lacking fleet.

 

So...yeah, not a lot for 20pts as far as I'm concerned.  The only reason to take the vanilla version is to run dual DCCW with upgraded guns in the fists, like the plasma blaster.  But then they're rather expensive.

[Kol Saresk]

At a cost though. The Mortis have to choose to neither move nor run in irder to skyfire. And they have less chance in CC than the standard dread.

[Blacksails]

Right, I just find that cost to be a little disproportionate.  Really, the only reason for the vanilla version is for dual DCCW.  I don't know, I still think they're both a little expensive for what they actually do, but the models are just too awesome not to have a few.

[depthcharge12]

20 points for just fleet and WS5?

 

 

Thats rediculous. Maybe for the old fleet rule...

[Blacksails]

Oh I know, well, that and the Mortis needs to stand still for a turn to get the real bonus.

 

Either way, both dreads should be base 155pts, with their current rules.  Mind you, the vanilla contemptor with either heavy flamers or melta guns in the fists go really well with Salamanders.

 

Ah well, its not like any of us are playing 40k/30k for how well balanced it is.

[depthcharge12]

30k players do seem more fluff themed, and while it does sound very condescending, I feel that the hefty price tag that it brings with it limits people from just going out and buying the new flavor of the week.

 

 

This is however, coming from a guy who switched from WEs to NLs, but I feel that's because they weren't completely represented with the given rules.

 

I will use my World eaters with some mechanicum for a Sarum defense force though when that comes out ;)

[depthcharge12]

Have you thought about using regular dreads with a flamestorm cannon and a meltagun?

 

S7 ap3 flamer is wonderful plus a meltagun for AT purposes.

 

 

Seems fluffy enough and walks up slowly with your force and discourages assaults on your units

[fission]

The problem of the flamestorm is that is useful in defence but in attack with no deep strike , the Dred will never arrive to the enemy.

Or you will have to use very well the cover.

[farding]

Sadly the Flamestorm is not included in our legion rules so its STR6 but yes i run 3 standard dreads with flamestorms and 1 with melta two with HF.

I don’t have a contemptor yet waiting to see what the salamander one will be like so they are all 8 standard dreads (well one is irondragon) it was a lot of points but seeing that many dread run towards lines of bolters was amazing.

 

Love the idea that our tanks can just roll with the terrain now it makes a bit more sense.

 

Does seem crazy about the mortis dreads which is rather annoying as now there will be so much anti air wont know what to do! My poor Ram.

 

In regards to Vulkan riding in the ram, since his suit states its artificer armour I think he can go in there but to be safe I count him as taking up 3 spaces inside.

 

Yea I love the pyromancy legion librarian full 3 ML but as I use a chaplain I don’t think it would be good to use both in one army, even if I not using the RoW

 

Just a thought but maybe that new assault claw drop pod thing would be perfect for pyroclasts to ride in for my drop list.

 

Don’t have the exact points to hand but my fav list that I focus around is below.

 

 

Lord Protector:

Artificer armour, Iron halo, Drake shield, MC Thunder hammer, Drake cloak, Digital lasers

 

Consul Chaplain, with Artificer armour and thunder hammer and Boarding shield

 

Comand squad with a lot of different options my models are magnetised so I go with what I can fit on them as CC guys with some Combi flamers

 

2 Medics with artificer and power weapons.

 

Fill in points and drop pods with as many dreads as I can depending on the lists normal 3 with 2 flame storms and one with 2 CCW with mix of melta guns and heavy flamers

 

And if I taking 4+ dreads I try and take a techmarine with some sevators who can also take a drop pod.

 

10 Tacticals with additional CCW couple bits on the sergeant drop pod

 

19 Breachers with 3 flamers and Thunder hammer Artificer and breaching charges

 

10 Support squad with all flamers – Drop pod

 

5 support squad with meltas – Drop Pod

 

5 heavy supports with heavy flamers. – Drop pod

 

Assault ram

 

Storm Eagle with LC and MM

 

 

I know it does not have the points but my book is not with me at the moment (thing is heavy to carry around!) but any ideas on the above would be great. Its normally about 3k until I can finish my Vulkan model.

[fission]

* If you want to take techmarine on drop pod you will have to take the Orbital Assault Rite of War .

So don't forget the FAQ Errata :

" Q : Do I have to take a Drop Pod instead of a Rhino for all my infantry units if I use the‘OrbitalAssault’ Rite of War?

A: No, not so long as you have sufficient other vehicles for them to be transported in that are capable of deep striking. So, for example, if your primary detachment contained two Legion Storm Eagle Assault Gunships these could transport a unit of up to 20 infantry models each, and so two units in your force would not need Drop Pods of their own. Note that once a transport such as this has been ‘assigned’ once for the purpose of working out the Rite of War, it cannot be claimed by another unit as well! "

 

* For the primarch and the Ram :

"Q: Can a Caestus Assault Ram carry a Primarch?

A: As stated, a Caestus may only carry models in power armour, artificer armour or Terminator armour. The individual Primarch entry will state what sort of armour they are clad in, and while Terminators ignore the Bulky rule in a Caestus, Very Bulky exists unchanged

 

* Otherwise you can use Drop Pod too ...

Q: Can a Legion Drop Pod transport a Primarch, or a character equipped with Terminator armour who has joined a unit? What about Bulky, Very Bulky or Extremely Bulky models?

A: Unless specified, only Infantry models other than those equipped with jump packs or Terminator armour may ever be transported in a Legion Drop Pod. As an exception to this,Rapier units may be transported in Legion Drop Pod based upon certain Rites of War (see future publications), but may not otherwise regularly take them as dedicated transports.

If an eligible unit takes a Legion Drop Podas a dedicated transport, it must begin the game in reserve inside the drop pod. Independent characters and attached models such as Apothecaries may be transported in a Legion Drop Pod, so long as they are eligible (see above), designated as being attached to the squad before the game begins

and there is sufficient space for them remaining in the drop pod.

 

* Breachers squad I'm not fond of them

[Vardus]

Edit......

 

I'm looking at planning my first purchases, and for 2500pts of mechanized goodness, I'm thinking of something along the lines of...

 

Salamanders – 2500

(Covenant of Fire)

Praetor – Cataphractii Terminator, Thunder Hammer, Dragonscale Stormshield, Mantle of the Elder Drake/180pts

 

Firedrake Squad (5) – 4x Dragonscale Stormshield, 5x Thunder Hammer, 1x Heavy Flamer, Spartan, Armoured Ceramite, Flare Shield/690pts

 

Mortis Contemptor Dreadnought – Two Multi-melta/155pts

Mortis Contemptor Dreadnought – Two Multi-melta/155pts

 

Tactical Squad (10) – Rhino, Heavy Flamer/200pts

Tactical Squad (10) – Rhino, Heavy Flamer/200pts

Pyroclast Squad (5) – Land Raider Proteus, Armoured Ceramite, Hull Heavy Flamer/400pts

 

Sicaran Battle Tank – Lascannon Sponsons/175pts

Sicaran Battle Tank – Lascannon Sponsons/175pts

And

Librarian Consul – Cataphractii Terminator, Mastery Level 2/150pts

Or

Whirlwind (2) – Hyperios Air Defense Missiles/150pts

 

My potential 3k list doesn't change much, basically swapping the Praetor for Vulkan, and throwing in a normal Contemptor with 2x DCCW with melta guns.

 

A little light on scoring units, but I'm also throwing around a 2500pts all foot list with 5+ scoring units, and something like 70+ power armour and terminator models.  So many options...my poor wallet.

 

Pointing out bold part for clarity. (The Edit)

 

Don't forget that you still need the compulsory HQ as Vulkan is a Lords of War choice, so you would have to take the Consul over the Whirlwinds in a 3k list. Other than that it looks like a sound list.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Pedantic Bob

[fission]

 

Edit......

 

I'm looking at planning my first purchases, and for 2500pts of mechanized goodness, I'm thinking of something along the lines of...

 

Salamanders – 2500

(Covenant of Fire)

Praetor – Cataphractii Terminator, Thunder Hammer, Dragonscale Stormshield, Mantle of the Elder Drake/180pts

 

Firedrake Squad (5) – 4x Dragonscale Stormshield, 5x Thunder Hammer, 1x Heavy Flamer, Spartan, Armoured Ceramite, Flare Shield/690pts

 

Mortis Contemptor Dreadnought – Two Multi-melta/155pts

Mortis Contemptor Dreadnought – Two Multi-melta/155pts

 

Tactical Squad (10) – Rhino, Heavy Flamer/200pts

Tactical Squad (10) – Rhino, Heavy Flamer/200pts

Pyroclast Squad (5) – Land Raider Proteus, Armoured Ceramite, Hull Heavy Flamer/400pts

 

Sicaran Battle Tank – Lascannon Sponsons/175pts

Sicaran Battle Tank – Lascannon Sponsons/175pts

And

Librarian Consul – Cataphractii Terminator, Mastery Level 2/150pts

Or

Whirlwind (2) – Hyperios Air Defense Missiles/150pts

 

My potential 3k list doesn't change much, basically swapping the Praetor for Vulkan, and throwing in a normal Contemptor with 2x DCCW with melta guns.

 

A little light on scoring units, but I'm also throwing around a 2500pts all foot list with 5+ scoring units, and something like 70+ power armour and terminator models.  So many options...my poor wallet.

 

Don't forget that you still need the compulsory HQ as Vulkan is a Lords of War choice, so you would have to take the Consul over the Whirlwinds in a 3k list. Other than that it looks like a sound list.

 The Praetor is the compulsory HQ , no ?

[Blacksails]

Unfortunately, flamestorm cannons don't fall under the list for the legion rules.

 

@Farding

Its a shame you can't get that extra man in the breacher squad so you can get that final special weapon.  Well, that and 20 is such a cleaner number than 19.  Otherwise looks scary; not a fan of pods myself, but putting that many bodies and dreads down around your opponent has a lot of potential.  Just hope to go second!

 

@Fission

Thanks for the clarification.  I see no reason the Primarchs couldn't ride in a C-ram, though eating up three spots has some limiting factors. 

 

Oh, and Pedantic Bob was referring to my quick line about how the list changes at 3k points; see the bolded line in the quote block.

 

@Pedantic Bob

Thanks for pointing that out.  I feel like a Primarch should count as both, seeing as he automatically becomes your warlord, but technically you're right.  Oh well, not that I'm complaining about bringing a sweet ML2 (or ML3) Libby.

 

I'm still toying with an all foot list, though my only experience is with my IG army playing power blobs back in 5th.  Does foot horde marines work at all?  Could it work with the legion list considering the number of special weapons that can be put down?  What support units go well with foot?  Rapiers, dreads, more infantry?

[Vardus]

 

 

Edit......

 

My potential 3k list doesn't change much, basically swapping the Praetor for Vulkan, and throwing in a normal Contemptor with 2x DCCW with melta guns.

 

A little light on scoring units, but I'm also throwing around a 2500pts all foot list with 5+ scoring units, and something like 70+ power armour and terminator models.  So many options...my poor wallet.

 

Don't forget that you still need the compulsory HQ as Vulkan is a Lords of War choice, so you would have to take the Consul over the Whirlwinds in a 3k list. Other than that it looks like a sound list.

 The Praetor is the compulsory HQ , no ?

 

Sorry, the bold part isn't that clear....

 

 

 

Oh, and Pedantic Bob was referring to my quick line about how the list changes at 3k points; see the bolded line in the quote block.

 

@Pedantic Bob

Thanks for pointing that out.  I feel like a Primarch should count as both, seeing as he automatically becomes your warlord, but technically you're right.  Oh well, not that I'm complaining about bringing a sweet ML2 (or ML3) Libby.

 

I'm still toying with an all foot list, though my only experience is with my IG army playing power blobs back in 5th.  Does foot horde marines work at all?  Could it work with the legion list considering the number of special weapons that can be put down?  What support units go well with foot?  Rapiers, dreads, more infantry?

 

Aye, it is strange that a Primarch dosn't count as a HQ, a simple takes up a Lords of War and HQ slot would work methinks but as you say a Libby is no hardship! 

 

As for foot slogging, I suppose it depends on your meta. I see no reason why a RoW selected list for Move Through Cover those elements you mentioned, Breacher  and Termi squads for some surviveability  along with some heavy weapon support to give covering fire shouldn't work. You just need to keep the enemy occupied to get into range, something that a fluffy Word Eaters army struggles with (just ask depthcharge12  )

[depthcharge12]

As for foot slogging, I suppose it depends on your meta. I see no reason why a RoW selected list for Move Through Cover those elements you mentioned, Breacher  and Termi squads for some surviveability  along with some heavy weapon support to give covering fire shouldn't work. You just need to keep the enemy occupied to get into range, something that a fluffy Word Eaters army struggles with (just ask depthcharge12  )

 

 

I am humbled for being mentioned

 

 

The world eaters are great against 40k armies but not against MEQs....which is unfortunate considering they MOTHA FRIKKIN DUAL ASTARTES ALL THE MOTHA FRIKKIN TIME WHEN THEYRE NOT IN WAR

 

*ahem*

 

 

but the sallies seem suited to a continual scorched earth theme (sans phosphex and rad) moving slowly like an armored dragon.

 

 

I will say though that their vehicles with the 5+ invuln is great though and should be taken advantage of.

[Blacksails]

I'll probably end up buying enough models to run both types of lists, because who needs to eat?

 

Move through cover helps, both mech and foot, though the 5++ against melta and so on is lost when playing on foot.

 

Also, this topic is "Hot".  Seems oddly appropriate.

 

Any thoughts on Predators?  Best load out?  Better off using the Sicaran?  Vindicators still worth taking in a legion list?  

[The boater]

Heavy flame thrower jetbikes for lols? :P

 

-The Boater

 

Edit: amendment:

Or better yet praetor on jetbike with command squad on jetbikes all with heavy flamers and kited out to do some serious damage in close combat. Throw a primaris medic with them on a jetbike and suddenly you have a very sturdy squad that can hit like nothing else. Not to mention said heavy flamers are now S6 (so they wound most space marine units on a 2+) and all members of said squad can make one of their weapons master crafted. So for more lols: add two or three skyhunter squads into this and bring back the massed cavalry charge (+ scorched earth tactics) followed by infantry support.

Edited October 30, 2013 by The boater

[fission]

3000 points Rite of War : Covenant of Fire

LORD OF WAR
 

* Vulkan : 425 pts
 

HQ
 

* Cassian Dracos : 275 pts
 

* Centurion Primus Medicae : 130 pts

=> Cataphracti armor , MC power weapon, Dragonscale Stormshield

ELITES
 

* Firedrakes : 300 pts (with Vulkan ) 

=> Dragonscale Stormshield
 

* Firedrakes : : 300 pts (with Primus Medicae)

=> Dragonscale Stormshield
 

 

TROOPS

 

* Legion Tactical Squad : 175 pts 
=>Sergeant : artificer armour ,MC Power weapon

=>Rhino with extra armour : 45 pts

* Legion Tactical Squad : 175 pts
=>Sergeant : artificer armour ,MC Power weapon

=>Rhino with extra armour : 45 pts

* Legion Tactical Support Squad :155 pts
+2 additional Marine

=Sergeant : artificer armour , MC power weapon

=>Rhino with extra armour : 45 pts

* Legion Tactical Support Squad :155 pts
+2 additional Marine

=Sergeant : artificer armour , MC power weapon

=>Rhino with extra armour : 45 pts

HEAVY SUPPORT

 

* Legion Heavy Support Squad : 320 pts

10 Missile Launcher , Hardened armour
=> Sergent : MC MissileLauncher , Augury Scanner, artificer armour

* Legion Heavy Support Squad : 195 pts

5 Multi Melta
=> Sergent : MC MultiMelta ,Augury Scanner

* Spartan Assault Tank : 335 points
Hull mounted heavy flamer , Twin linkbolter pintle mounted (freely exchange to heavy flamer) , flareshield , frag assault launcher

FAST ATTACK
 

* Tarantula Sentry Gun : 60 pts
=> Hyperios air defence ,Concealment

 

==> 3000 points

 

 

[Blacksails]

No hammers on the Firedrakes?  Makes me sad. Then again, I'd personally run them fully kitted; Hammers for all, storm shields on 4, and the last guy gets the Heavy Flamer, all for 355pts.

 

I'd also think about losing the extra armour on the Rhinos, and putting a heavy flamer on them.  Costs an extra 5pts on top of what you have, but then you have even more S6 flamey goodness on all those rhinos to act in support of your Tacticals inside.

 

I think the biggest thing you're missing is anti-air, though currently there isn't a whole lot that flies that you need to worry about.  Though the new Fire Raptor might go to town on your troops all game largely unhindered.  Something to think about.

[fission]

Yes no hammer I know... but this is a general list which can be change because of the opponent and the scenario.

 

I put the extra armour because the main problem is to arrive quickly on the objectives without the Deep Strike.

 

Tarantula is perhaps a little light against aircraft , I can but the anti-air missile to my main Heavy Support Squad

[Blacksails]

I guess that's fair with the hammers.  Though at least a chainfist wouldn't go amiss if you need to cut something open.

 

I guess my problem with extra armour is that its only effective against one or two penetrating hits; anything more than that or a few glances puts the Rhino out of commission anyways.  I figure if a rhino is going to survive after its unloaded its cargo, it might as well have a S6 flamer to do some kind of damage as a slight boost.

 

But I definitely think a few tarantulas won't be deterring any of the aircraft people can bring.  The Fire Raptor is certainly an appealing option for a good mix of durability and firepower.  The ability to shoot at three/four different targets with S6-S8 weapons with good RoF definitely makes it more viable than the Storm Eagle as a gunship.

 

By the way, who gets the Spartan?  Vulkan?

 

I really wish Pyroclasts could buy Rhinos.

 

So I guess the next question would be if anyone is planning on running other RoWs, or just going straight vanilla.  A Pride of the Legion list would be fun with Firedrakes in the Elite slot and veteran termies as troops all with hammers and stormshields.  

 

*Edit* I'm also thinking I found the best overall (if not most expensive) Praetor combination, which so far only the Sallies can do.

 

Praetor

-Master Crafted Thunder Hammer (Paragon Blade can be swapped as desired)

-Iron Halo

-Mantle of the Elder Drake (EW)

-Dragonscale Storm Shield

-Inferno Pistol

-Digital Lasers

 

Whole thing clocks in at 215pts, but with the Salamander RoW, both the Hammer and Pistol are Master-crafted.  He has 5 attacks base, S8 (or S5), has a good shooting attack (and reliable too), and is immune to all the Paragon Blades and S8+ ID weapons.  Oh, and he's 2+/3++.

 

Thoughts on the loadout?  Too expensive?  Just right?  Worth it?

Edited November 2, 2013 by Blacksails

[fission]

All the Termies in the Spartan .

 

Your Praetor look great

[Russ Brother 92]

It would be interesting to see a PoTL Sallies force - have as many TH/SS termies as possible - Praetor w/Firedrakes, 3 Squads of Firedrakes in Elites and then 60 Termies as your Troops, finish off with either a Whirlwind squadron (doing anti-air rounds) or a Predator squadron (doing anti-tank rounds) - what do you guys think?

[Blacksails]

@Fission

I'm a little confused by your termie comment.  You have two units of termies; to the best of my knowledge, only one unit can be inside a normal transport.

 

@Russ Brother 92

I'm interested in slowly collecting the models for such a force.  It'd also double as a Deathwing army in normal 40k games, which is nice.

 

A normal squad with hammer and storm shields would run 255pts (with a single heavy flamer at 5 men).  The full 10-man option is cheaper than two 5-man squads; 10 with hammers, 8 stormshields and two heavy flamers is 485pts.  If I were running a PotL force, I'd have one or two 10-man units, a few 5-man units, and some firedrakes.  I'd probably run a 10-man firedrake unit as well with my HQ to screen the other guys as a massive bullet soak.

 

I probably wouldn't even run any vehicles in a termie list.  I'd just throw as many 2+/3++ wounds down the field as possible and see what sticks.

 

Stop tempting me!  I now want my 3k mech list, a 3k all foot list, and a 3k PotL list!  Granted, a lot of the models would be interchangeable, but it'd mean owning approximately of 5-6k points of marines!