[HH1.0] Salamanders Tactics

[brojob]

Sorry for the double post. Do you all think a Storm Eagle is fluffy enough for Salamanders? They prefer being on the ground, but they also like heavy firepower and transports. I can't decide between a Spartan or a Storm Eagle for my 5 Firedrakes and Praetor. 

[Russ Brother 92]

I'd say an Eagle is pretty fluffy - how else are your Greenpeace crew going to make it to the poor civvies?

 

I'd say a Spartan is harder to kill - ignoring melta/lance forcing your opp. to come in close at which point you can charge out and smash face :D

 

However an Eagle gives you mobility and a heft of different weaponry as well - so idk - atm I don't have either myself.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Russ Brother 92

[brojob]

I've changed the list up.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287336-salamanders-2000-points/

 

I think a Spartan may be better for anti-armor and it would get to the enemy at about the same time as the rest of my army. 

[Adra'Melek]

Query, re: master-crafting for characters. Is this in addition to current options? So can a praetor, legion champion and firedrake master all have 2 master crafted weapons? It looks like it to me.

[exsanguis]

I would think so. And on that topic, can a Salamander Jetbike Praetor master-craft his Jetbike's HB?

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

What would people say were good equipment options for Salamander land speeders? They are one of my favorite units in 40k so I was hoping to use them in my heresymanders. I was thinking heavy flamer and heavy bolter as it is cheap and cheerful, or maybe something like twin multi meltas or assault cannon and multi melta (not sure on their options beyond no typhoons, not got the book on me atm).

[fission]

To exsanguis : I don't think so. It is written "may apply the Master-crafted specialrule to a single weapon they possess..."

As I understand it the character must have the weapon on him, not on the vehicle he is on.

Or if he can , could the mastercrafted can be put on any vehicle weapon ?!

[Adra'Melek]

Just to be clear, the command squad are all characters so they can have master crafted weapons. Also, is the main difference between the Fire Drake and terminator command squad that the firedrake are scoring (and cost 100pts more). Also Fire Drake have +1 Ld.

 

Edit: 2 wounds

Edited March 4, 2014 by Thunor's_Hammer

[Sanct]

I would think so. And on that topic, can a Salamander Jetbike Praetor master-craft his Jetbike's HB?

 

I say yes, but why would you want to. You have much better weapons to buff and heavy bolters aren't that great in comparison

[Russ Brother 92]

Quoted word-for-word from Massacre -> All characters with the Legiones Astartes (Salamanders) special rule, including unit sergeants, etc., may apply the Master-crafted special rule to a single weapon they possess for +5 points. Which weapon this is must be noted on their army list before the battle begins.

 

So on that note I'd say you can't MC a vehicles weapon, however you can MC a sword the Praetor/Jetbike Sgt is carrying himself...

Edited March 5, 2014 by Russ Brother 92

[Surrender_Monkey]

Hey guys, I've been rethinking my choice of Legion lately, I was going to go for Imperial Fists to match my Crimson Fists, but I've been thinking that a different Legion would give me an army which I could use for both 40k and 30k, doing more Fists would be a bit redundant in this respect. I am increasingly tempted by Salamanders, partly because I like green and partly because I like the idea of burning things.

 

First of all, I note that the shade of green people use varies considerably, I prefer the slightly brighter green but I note that a lot of the HH artwork uses a darker green, would you consider it to be heresy (pun intended) if I paint my 30k Salamanders in a lighter green like this?

 

Secondly, I've drawn up a quick 2000pt army list in an attempt to work out where to start:

 

Rite of War: The Covenant of Fire.

 

HQ

 

Praetor (200)

- Iron Halo

- Dragonscale Storm Shield

- Master Crafted Thunder Hammer

- Mantle of the Elder Drake

- Digital Lasers

 

Troops

 

Legion Tactical Squad (210)

- Sergeant w/ Combi-Flamer

- Rhino w/ Heavy Flamer

 

Legion Tactical Squad (210)

- Sergeant w/ Combi-Flamer

- Rhino w/ Heavy Flamer

 

Legion Tactical Support Squad (225)

- Flamers

- 5 Extra Marines

- Rhino w/ Heavy Flamer

 

Elites

 

Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought (155)

- Two Multi Meltas

 

Firedrake Terminator Squad (345)

- Master w/ MC Thunder Hammer and DSS

- 1 w/ TH and DSS

- 1 w/ Combi-Flamer and Chainfist

- 1 w/ Heavy Flamer and Power Axe

- 1 w/ Combi-Flamer and Power Axe

 

Spartan Assault Tank (325)

- TL Heavy Flamer

- Auxiliary Drive

- Armoured Ceramite

 

Heavy Support

 

Sicaran Battle Tank (175)

- Lascannon Sponsons

 

Legion Medusa (155)

 

Total: 2000

 

It does feel like a very "top heavy" list, with nearly half my points invested in one squad in one tank, but it does sound like fun to use. I've also got a lot of flamers for fluff purposes, but at S5 and S6 each I think I should be able to put a lot of wounds on things. I think the Medusa is a little vulnerable, but the model looks really mean so I have to get one!

 

For 2500pts I think I'm would add an Apothecary to the terminators, maybe a second Contemptor (making the terminators a command squad to make room) and probably a second support squad.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Surrender_Monkey

[Adra'Melek]

An apothecary cannot be added to Terminators (the specific list of possible units is in betrayal.  You could have a Primus Medicae in Terminator armour.

 

I ran a Contemptor with 2x CCW and 2x Heavy flamers. He kicked chaos behind (but I play friendly games).

 

Regarding eggs in one basket, it's extremely survivable with cataphractii and spartan.  It will also draw a lot of attention potentially, sparing others.

 

Regarding the green, I'd say given the number of chapters even in the Salamanders (who were a relatively small legion) even if your green wasn't the 'proper' green it would be explainable.  That's on top of the fact there isn't really a 'proper' green. So I'd say go for it. Look at Luna wolves, they're done as anything from light grey to white to pearlescent.

[Surrender_Monkey]

Ah I overlooked that, a Primus Medicae is probably too expensive for what he does, especially since I'd be looking for more troops.

 

The problem with a Close Combat focussed Dreadnought is getting him forward, the Salamanders Rite doesn't allow drop pods, and I feel that the prospect of Master Crafted Multi Meltas is too good to pass up!

[brojob]

OK I got a question. I was reading about the rites of war in Betrayal and I'm wondering how the legion specific rites of war in Massacre work. I'm under the impression that, in Betrayal, only characters with the special rule Master of the Legion (praetors) can allow access the rites of war in Betrayal. Is that the same with the legion specific rites of war in Massacre? If I were to take, say, a consul or a named character without the Master of the Legion special rule, am I allowed to use the rite of war for the legion I am playing as? 

[Adra'Melek]

The Rites of War are only accessible from the Master of the Legion special rule so you would need a praetor, primarch or special character with 'Master of the Legion' special rule.

[brojob]

Thanks. I was hoping I could take Cassian Dracos and still get Covenant of Fire. I guess I can just use him alongside my praetor in larger games. 

[fission]

Guys , I was asking myself two question. If you have any idea on the matter it would help :

 

1 - Massacre , page 125 , the sallies vet Nar'van , does he have a MK VII helmet ? I know that Sallies mix a lot their armour ...but the only MKVII helmet that I know during the heresy era is the Lion's one.

 

2- Massacre , the history of tthe Sallies. At the beginning of the protoLegion , 3 of them were develop apart from the other : the 6th , the 18th and the 20th.

I could understand for the proto-space wolves and the proto-alpha legion : they are and can be use as a counterattack if a Legion is rebelling , one with strentgh and the other with spy.

In your point of view why so much secret for the proto-salamanders at the beginning ?

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Guys , I was asking myself two question. If you have any idea on the matter it would help :

 

1 - Massacre , page 125 , the sallies vet Nar'van , does he have a MK VII helmet ? I know that Sallies mix a lot their armour ...but the only MKVII helmet that I know during the heresy era is the Lion's one.

 

2- Massacre , the history of tthe Sallies. At the beginning of the protoLegion , 3 of them were develop apart from the other : the 6th , the 18th and the 20th.

I could understand for the proto-space wolves and the proto-alpha legion : they are and can be use as a counterattack if a Legion is rebelling , one with strentgh and the other with spy.

In your point of view why so much secret for the proto-salamanders at the beginning ?

 

According to Betrayal, its a 'Mantilla' pattern helmet, which would later become the standard for MK V

[fission]

Thanks IHF for the answer .

Any idea for the second one ?

[Kor'Vesh]

Been searching the net for some discussion of the Salamanders legion tactics and found this. Excellent thread guys.

I wanted to respond to fission's question about the Legion origins, as its something I was thinking about a while ago.

I think the Salamanders being kept separate is odd at first - with the Alpha legion and Space Wolves the Emperor essentially wants them to be capable of acting against the other Legions, and to some extent wants the other Legions to be suspicious of them. This isn't the case with the Salamanders. The Salamanders need to be isolated to refine and hone their independence - their role seems to be to be plunged into desparate situations with little or no support and win through. By isolating the Salamanders the Emperor is shielding them from help, to accentuate their skills in this type of warfare - fighting against the odds as the only Legion element. This role may also have strengthened their links to humanity (due to close interaction with PDF forces etc.). Later in their development they reitergrate with the other legions under Vulkan's tutelage, but this idea of independence is central to the legion by this stage. That's how I see it anyway, and I think it is a really nice bit of background from Forgeworld.

 

Have people used the Salamanders Legion much? How are you finding it? What about the Pyroclasts? I'm seeing a lot of lists without them, where as I'd have thought they'd be a nice alternative to the flamer support squad.

Cheers,

 

Kor'Vesh

[Adra'Melek]

I've used them in a single game against CSM. They never really got close enough to do anything and I rolled a ridiculous number of 1s for the armour saves. I don't think I used them in the best way. I'd be tempted to stick them in a land raider to get them close, but I don't have a land raider yet.

[farding]

Well i have been trying differnt games Recently and after finding that 10 Fire drakes jumping out of a Assult ram leave nothing in their wake i found them to be far too good, making it unfun and not enjoyable for myself. After this moving to Pyroclasts, both with the fact that they have come out now and i picked up a full squad.

 

Tried them in the Ram last night it was perfect. playing WE jumped out of the ram they had the preator with them for some close combat protection (they not good in combat but need to be close) i was lucky enough to have the World burner Warlord trait which is perfect for them beyond imagining. scoring 36 wounds the first round of shooting, they they took a long ranged charge and got 19 wounds on the over watch enough to stop the charge. second time i had them move into a little bit of terrain getting another 14 wounds but keeping as much distance as possible to hopfuly stop the charge again and forcing my oppenent to charge through terrain. i scored 14 wounds in the over watch losing non to return fire in the previous turns. they did not fair well in combat but very good against tanks with their melta bombs.  ( the times i could have charged but chose not too proved to be very benifital because the amount of overwatch they can put out)

All in all its the best they have ever done for me in a game last time they spent ages running but 6 of them ran around the enemies tanks blowing them up nicely but did not kill any infantry. I found they increadibly fun to use and in that way i enjoyed them i found trying to be close to the enemy to use their weapons and then not charging because thier fun overwatch its nail biting and shall be taking them in future campaigns including one at the end of the month.  The fact with the RoW they are non complus troops is very good with the 2+ save.
In their profile they have combat weapons does this mean they count as having two CCW? they dont have a bolt pistol but it does not say that their flame projector is a CCW i take it as no but anyone think otherwise might help give them a little boost 1A each gets sad in combat.

Waiting till my Armoured crassus transport arrives then i want to fill it with these guys.

 

I am enjoying playing with the salamanders Legion rules had a good 10-12 games with it now and still finding a build i really enjoy but it is turning to be great fun. the most underrated thing is the move through cover they get in their RoW makes up for the takes 1" from run moves, Which does  make our breachers incredibly slow.  but a combo of your move through cover clever use of terrain and a couple of grav weapons can really slow your oppennt down, I had angron running through terrain or grav templates (difficult and dangerous terrain) fo 4 turns keeping him from combat as i kited him about.

 

Ill post up my list for a 1500 campaign 3 games in a second.

[Greyall]

The Salamanders being kept apart is indeed strange, I wonder if it has anything to do with

the prophecies surrounding Vulkan and his role as 'gatekeeper'

, as per Unremembered Empire and Vulkan Lives.

 

But right now the Sallies' discernable traits are their near-suicidal bravery and high regard for human life.

 

Maybe the Emperor 'kept' them as the most pure-hearted Legion, close to him so that, in the event of everything going to hell, he'd have a definite last resort on the side of Humanity. But that's far-fetched, I assume, the Sallies' loyalty doesn't seem any greater than that of the Imperial Fists or Ultramarines...

[fission]

Kor'vesh : sorry but I'm not convinced by your argument ,sorry . But nice try.

 

Greyall: why not but this prophecy is an eldar one . And as far as I know it concern Vulkan and not the Sallies.

 

Perhaps we must look to the unique genetic abilities of the Sallies: stronger and more resilient than the other space marine ?

Or , they were develop apart the other ones because the Emperor wanted to watch if any of them had the "Vulkan's powerful and special ability" (if you see what I mean) and if yes to quicly destroyed the Legion .

[Greyall]

That's plausible, yes, it'd make the Legion too dangerous, but could've been tested with just a few subjects.

 

I'm not sure Salamanders were physically 'better' than the other Legions, their traits seem to be psychological - apart from the jet skin and red eyes, of course.

 

The Emperor is a lot more learned in the galaxy's secrets than it's apparent at first - take the Webway's reconstruction, for example, or his knowledge of the Warp. Maybe he tested and appraised the Sallies himself so they'd be ready to join their Primarch.