[HH1.0] Salamanders Tactics

[Kor'Vesh]

Fission: Why so? No problem if you disagree, but I'd be intrigued as to why. I think my ideas make sense, even if they may not serve as a complete enough reason for the isolation.

 

Greyall: I do think that isolating the Legion could strengthen their ties to humanity over other astartes, and this is certainly something the Emperor might have desired. I don't think the Emperor kept the Sallies close at all though - they seem to have been used very late in the unification, and then pretty much adhoc, behind the main front of the crusade until joining up with Vulkan.

 

Farding: Thanks for the comments on the Pyros and Sallies in general. It would be really good to see your list. I want to use a squad of 5 Pyros in my strating out 1k list. I feel that they really need a transport though. Was thinking of letting them steal a tact squads rhino, rather then paying the price of a Land raider. Anyone had success with this?

 

The list I'm currently thinking of is:

 

Praetor - Refractor field, Paragon blade (MC), volkite serpenta: Covenant of Fire

(Can go with the pyroclasts or the small tactical squad)

 

Tactical Squad - 15 marines, Sarg with a combi-melta

 

Tactical Squad - 10 Marines, Sarg with a powersword

Rhino with combi - melta (bought for the 10 man squad but taken by the Pyroclasts)

 

Pyroclasts - 5 Pyros, Warden with Master crafted Flame projector

 

Predator - executioner plasma cannon

 

Sicaran - with lascanon Sponsons and Hull Heavy flamer

 

Originally I wasn't planning on going with a praetor and the Rite of War, but after I'd put everything in the list bar the HQ, I realised I had the points, and that the covenant of Fire actually adds a lot - saves for the tanks, move through cover, scoring Pyros and MC combi meltas. Seems worth it. I guess the Pred would be better with heavy bolter sponsons and a strorm shield of the preator would help too, but this is where I'm at currenty. Any thoughts?

Edited April 2, 2014 by Kor'Vesh

[fission]

You are right about the Big E and his knowledge about the mysteries of the universe...who knows ?

 

For the Sallies physical abilities it is written in the book Massacre . I will quote it later when I'll be back at home.

 

Kor'vesh : As I understand your point of view (with my poor english) . You said that the salamanders were grown apart to be independant and fight against the odds. It's true at the beginning and this way of thinking almost destroyed the Legion until being reunited with Vulkan . With Vulkan attheir head their mentality have changed a bit . And so the fact to be raised apart at the beginning seems to a wrong method to me.

Edited April 2, 2014 by fission

[Greyall]

I have the book, mate, I'll check it once I get home. Thanks for the memory refreshment =)

[fission]

You're welcome .

Even without this Forgeworld book , it was stated in a few W40K articles , about Sallies , that they are oftenly stronger than the other marines , I will check it also at home.

[fission]

Here is the quote : "The Devils in the Dark" - Massacre . p.117 :

 

" ...Of particular note is the strength of constitution displayed by fully developed Salamanders Legiones Astartes , which has measurable superiority to the already superhuman Space Marine norms in relation to extreme temperature tolerance , radiological resistance an cellular repair . As a result of this latter factor particularly , only the Death Guard Legion are on record as having a capacity to process and resist toxins that exceed the Salamanders' gene-type..."

Edited May 8, 2014 by fission

[grand_master85]

I have to admit, that as the Pride of the Legion Rite of War has been updated to include any Legion-specific Terminator unit in the Elites section, an entire army of Firedrakes as Troops is stupidly tempting :-D

Also, rhinos are a lot more survivable now (no one-shotting them from a solitary Krak missile!) which makes the idea of a Mech army much more plausible.

Edited June 11, 2014 by grand_master85

[Sanct]

I have to admit, that as the Pride of the Legion Rite of War has been updated to include any Legion-specific Terminator unit in the Elites section....

 

Wait. Wut? I missed something. When/where did this happen?

[Hyaenidae]

Moved to HH Tactica

=][=

[grand_master85]

 

 

I have to admit, that as the Pride of the Legion Rite of War has been updated to include any Legion-specific Terminator unit in the Elites section....

Wait. Wut? I missed something. When/where did this happen?

Aye :) the new Crusade Legion Army Book (the £30 one from Forge World) has updated some of the rules. So basically, SoH Justaerin, DG Deathshroud, EC Phoenix Guard, WE Red Butchers, IH Gorgon Terminators, Salliea Firedrakes, IW Tyrant Siege Terminators and AL Larneaen Terminators can be used as troops respectively in their army using PotL :) very pleased. It has to be a Terminator squa in the Elites section (so no Grave Wardens as troops for DG)

[Nakuth]

 

 

I have to admit, that as the Pride of the Legion Rite of War has been updated to include any Legion-specific Terminator unit in the Elites section....

Wait. Wut? I missed something. When/where did this happen?

Aye the new Crusade Legion Army Book (the £30 one from Forge World) has updated some of the rules. So basically, SoH Justaerin, DG Deathshroud, EC Phoenix Guard, WE Red Butchers, IH Gorgon Terminators, Salliea Firedrakes, IW Tyrant Siege Terminators and AL Larneaen Terminators can be used as troops respectively in their army using PotL very pleased. It has to be a Terminator squa in the Elites section (so no Grave Wardens as troops for DG)

 

 

Just to clarify, the Tyrant Siege Terminators for the IV Legion are, sadly, a heavy slot. So no using them as a Troops choice in Pride of The Legion list, I'm afraid. At least they can still be taken as HS, though. ;)

[Russ Brother 92]

 

 

I have to admit, that as the Pride of the Legion Rite of War has been updated to include any Legion-specific Terminator unit in the Elites section....

Wait. Wut? I missed something. When/where did this happen?

Aye the new Crusade Legion Army Book (the £30 one from Forge World) has updated some of the rules. So basically, SoH Justaerin, DG Deathshroud, EC Phoenix Guard, WE Red Butchers, IH Gorgon Terminators, Salliea Firedrakes, IW Tyrant Siege Terminators and AL Larneaen Terminators can be used as troops respectively in their army using PotL very pleased. It has to be a Terminator squa in the Elites section (so no Grave Wardens as troops for DG)

 

 

That makes me a VERY happy bunny... :D

[grand_master85]

 

 

 

I have to admit, that as the Pride of the Legion Rite of War has been updated to include any Legion-specific Terminator unit in the Elites section....

Wait. Wut? I missed something. When/where did this happen?

Aye the new Crusade Legion Army Book (the £30 one from Forge World) has updated some of the rules. So basically, SoH Justaerin, DG Deathshroud, EC Phoenix Guard, WE Red Butchers, IH Gorgon Terminators, Salliea Firedrakes, IW Tyrant Siege Terminators and AL Larneaen Terminators can be used as troops respectively in their army using PotL very pleased. It has to be a Terminator squa in the Elites section (so no Grave Wardens as troops for DG)

Just to clarify, the Tyrant Siege Terminators for the IV Legion are, sadly, a heavy slot. So no using them as a Troops choice in Pride of The Legion list, I'm afraid. At least they can still be taken as HS, though.

Well, one of us has an incorrect book then lol. I'm reading Extermination and the Tyrant Siege Terminators are indeed Elites choices. It's the power armoured Iron Havocs that are Heavy Support choices so you can in fact have an army of Terminators with cyclone missile launchers! Although they were a much better option in 6th Ed when Krak Missiles could one-shot anything upto av13...

 

But I digress, this is the Sallies page! I'm just working on a 30k Shattered Legions army, predominantly Salamanders with Iron Hands allies so hoping I can contribute more than theory to this soon. At a weekend Heresy event next month and I'll be taking 2.5k of Salamanders/Iron Hands so we shall see.

 

I'd like to figure in Pyroclasts but I'm not sure if I can bring myself to as I've got to either footslog them or put them in a Land Raider. I might just use the Pyroclasts minis as either a flamer/heavy flamer squad. The standard Praetor with all the tricks will likely figure in. Perhaps in a squad of Firedrakes/Terminators with a Primus Medicae. Ouch. I do like the Salamanders benefits for Flamers and Meltas but I wouldn't cram them in completely thoughout the army.

Edited June 26, 2014 by grand_master85

[Nakuth]

Oops, no, it was just me not paying attention.

 

OT: has anyone considered using Salamanders as an allied detachment? I've been thinking of doing a primary AdMech detachment with allied Sallies.

 

Maybe so a foot slogging Sallies force, with the legion RoW. Maybe have a breacher squad supported by Pyros as Troops; a pair of pred infernus for Heavy, & a pair of contemptors. Praetor with storm shield accompanies the breachers. Use them as the anvil to the AdMech hammer.

[grand_master85]

I was going to have Sallies as allies for my Iron Hands but I've discovered of late that I have a lot of love for the Sallies and they are now taking over the Hands as my favourite Legion. It's nice as well as they're one of the Legions at my two locals that aren't being touched at all.

 

Just remember; Rites of War can only be used by the Primary Detachment

[AL13N]

Well due to me finally getting Book 2 of Horus Heresy I'm super excited. Although my Beloved Salamanders get destroyed I'm super digging the Fluffy Squads. I personally purchased 30 Iron Armor MKIIIs for my guys. 30 Salamander Shoulder pads for them as well. 10 Pyro Class salamanders and look forward to purchasing the coolest primarch of all VULKAN!! When is he available FW don't you want my money. As well as those Fire Drakes!!! I throw my money at you as it is but why can't I get my beloved Primarch and the Fire Drakes I love soo much. Damn FW hurry up . 

[MakoBoy88]

Necro'ing this for the sake of Vulkan.

Has anyone actually got round to using a Pride of the Legion force with only Drakes, should be an awesome sight to be seen.

I am just getting my Sallies up off the group and i am struggling with Troops, whether to go hard on them and max out some bodies, or go light on them and get some Mech involved. Also whether to give them CCW's so they hold up in a fight.

ANy thoughts?

[Malus Trux]

I say add in mech but that's my preferred MO so I might be biased. As for CCW's, they might be very useful seeing as most Salamander lists will be very short ranged focused. Double tap bolters then charge in the following turn when the guns are dry.

 

I personally will just add in 2 min sized tac squads in Rhinos & move to other stuff like tac support, some FA slots & HS slots. To me they're like 40k tacticals, save points here for more options elsewhere. I'll be trying it against our local IW player some time this month & he's the current 30k champ so jumping straight into the fire like a good son of Vulkan.

[grand_master85]

I played a 3k game against my friend's Sons of Horus, lead by Horus himself. Was a daunting prospect. Well, untilk I tabled him that is :-D

i went for a list comprising Vulkan leading 5 Fire Drakes in a Spartan (which came to a whopping 1150 pts, thereabouts. I then went for a strong core of Troops with  2 Tactical Squads in Rhinos with Heavy Flamers and a Pyroclast squad (they stole the Heavy Support Squad's rhino. I was also uising the Covenant of Fire RoW). It was a very fast moving army that was able to react well to threats where needed. I also had a couple of rapiers and a Mortis Contemptor with 2 TLLC sitting on the hom objectives, with backup from a Volkite Culivern HS squad, as well as a Sicaran Venator and a Storm Eagle.

There's a lot of toys in there for sure,but my environment tends to have quite a few nasty vehicles and I find having enough threats coming at different angles helps take out things like enemy Spartans. The Venator in particular is nasty with it's ordnance 2, S10, AP1 main gun.

 

It was a lot of fun to play as previousl I had tried Iron Warriors and it was a very static army. Because we used the new Tactical Objectives, having my army quite mobile meant that I was able to grab objectives where needed or threaten the flanks.

 

One last point; the Fire Drakes really are the stuff of Legends. My Vulkan and Fire Drakes with a Primus Medicae went straight for Horus, who had a similar squad of Justaerin and a PM. Lets just say, the Fire Drakes lost a single wound before wiping out the Justaerin and Primus Medicae. Vulkan held Horus up in a challnge, which didn't go amazinglky well as I kept rolling really poorly for the to hit rolls (considering he leads the Artificer legion, you'd have thought Dawnbringer would be master crafted!). Vulkan was left on a single wound gbefore the FD's proceeded to bash Horus' skull in :-)

 

I guess the bottom line is, our Legion rules are nice and fluffy but don't go out of youir way to accomodate too many flamers and meltas.

[grand_master85]

Oh, and I am indeed planning an army of Fire Drakes. Led by Vulkan. All in either Spartans and Land Raiders or Storm Eagles :-D

[MakoBoy88]

It makes me a happy panda that there are good reports back from the tales of the Drakes. I can't wait to get Vulkan when he is released (fingers crossed for tomorrow??)

 

I too am thinking two min squads of tacticals and then some pyro lasts, and maybe some heavy lads toting some Volkite?

 

How does everything feel about Storm Eagle/ Fire Raptor?

[Malus Trux]

Very strong about both. The Storm Eagle has transport capability & can be a mean gunship. Use that to drop off Pyroclasts. The Fire Raptor is very nice. Strafing run on a twin-linked Marine killer means someone will have a bad day. The option between quad bolter & reaper auto cannon may seem a no brainer but the former will be better for putting wounds (and hopefully killing) Marines while the latter will deal damage to vehicles more reliably. Toss in the machine spirit & it can attack up to FOUR different targets.

 

Remember, while Salamanders may have underdeveloped Land Speeder & Bike assets their fleet support assets have no such deficiency.

[grand_master85]

If you were to choose one or the other, I'd probably go Storm Eagle. With all those Flamers and Volkites, we're not exactly wanting for anti-infantry. My Storm Eagle has been pretty instrumental in blowing up other fliers with the all important ap2 and ap1 (TLLC and MM respectively), tanks and also dropping off important units on objectives.

 

Be warned; assembling it will most likely reduce you to tears.

[MakoBoy88]

Assembly was a bitch huh?

Well... i cant ignore how COOL the Fire Raptor is.

Also, in terms of mobility discussion, i agree that they have under developed Land Speeder units and shizz, but i completely agree they must have had Storm Eagles coming out the Wazoo like everyone else.

Pyroclasts in it you say..? Hmm.

[grand_master85]

Well, it's also an Assault Vehicle...it'd be rude not to have at least a squad of Fire Drakes in there ;)

[Zeratil]

I went for the Fire Raptor initially as I loved the model more than the Storm Eagle (want one of each eventually), it's basically the AC 130 of the 41st millennium! putting it together was tough, but not as nightmarish as I hear the Storm Eagle is.

 

  I think which one you go for kind of depends on what else you're running, the Storm Eagle gets pricey quickly and it has to stay on the board for a turn before you can assault from it, and it's going to eat a lot of firepower in that turn, a 200-300 point model with another 150-250 unit inside is too good to pass up even if you just plink it to death over the course of a turn. I think you either need more than one or have some way that you can remove or neutralise any serious threats to it quickly (enemy Mortiss dreads etc).