[HH1.0] Salamanders Tactics

[1ncarnadine]

I have a vaguely related question.

 

I am building up my Adamantium Coconut, but I wish to provide my Firedrakes with the heavy flamer.

 

How do you guys do your non SS/TH Drakes? The standard FW models have only one option, do you simply attach a Cataphractii heavy flamer? Are the arm poses suitable for such an addition?

 

It will just look so jarring to have 4 beautiful Firedrakes and one plain Cataphractii with a heavy flamer.

 

You could jack the Tartaros special weapon set's Heavy Flamer. It looks more advanced so it fits the Salamanders master crafting theme, and it's only attached to the forearm so it looks like it would be pretty easy to pull a swap with the forearm of a regular Firedrake shield arm. Then you keep the look of the shoulder pads and dragonhides. Otherwise yeah, just a cataphractii heavy flamer arm on the Firedrake torso wouldn't look too strange.

Edited January 13, 2015 by LetsYouDown

[Carlson793]

I have a vaguely related question.

 

I am building up my Adamantium Coconut, but I wish to provide my Firedrakes with the heavy flamer.

 

How do you guys do your non SS/TH Drakes? The standard FW models have only one option, do you simply attach a Cataphractii heavy flamer? Are the arm poses suitable for such an addition?

 

It will just look so jarring to have 4 beautiful Firedrakes and one plain Cataphractii with a heavy flamer.

 

Just did an eyeball test fit down in my modeling crypt. With a little trim work, the Pyroclast flame projector can be modified work to fit the Firedrake shield arm (the 3 dot shield arm looks to be the best bet). Cut both off at the elbow and reattach the flamer to the shield arm. If you use the 3 dot drake arm, you can muck up the cutting a bit as long as you avoid the drake skin (it can act to hide a decent 'oops').

 

Plus, if you want to avoid sacrificing a Pyroclast, there's a good number of P-clast arms for sale on eBay.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Carlson793

[God-Potato of Mankind]

 

I have a vaguely related question.

 

I am building up my Adamantium Coconut, but I wish to provide my Firedrakes with the heavy flamer.

 

How do you guys do your non SS/TH Drakes? The standard FW models have only one option, do you simply attach a Cataphractii heavy flamer? Are the arm poses suitable for such an addition?

 

It will just look so jarring to have 4 beautiful Firedrakes and one plain Cataphractii with a heavy flamer.

 

Just did an eyeball test fit down in my modeling crypt. With a little trim work, the Pyroclast flame projector can be modified work to fit the Firedrake shield arm (the 3 dot shield arm looks to be the best bet). Cut both off at the elbow and reattach the flamer to the shield arm. If you use the 3 dot drake arm, you can muck up the cutting a bit as long as you avoid the drake skin (it can act to hide a decent 'oops').

 

Plus, if you want to avoid sacrificing a Pyroclast, there's a good number of P-clast arms for sale on eBay.

 

 

That seems like an idea actually, I need another set of Drakes & Clasts.

I can just use the butchered 'Clast as a Seargeant with a kitbashed handflamer or something.

[Fairstrife1138]

Ok so I am thinking of starting Salamanders. In fact I am pretty set on it now.

 

I really want to use the traditional Hard Tank Praetor set up, with Fire Drakes. In either a Phobos or a Spartan.

 

Then a few tac squads to make minimal troops.

 

Then the other add ons that are too good to ignore like Contenptors and Pyroclasts. Then tanks.

 

But I also, if what I'm hearing is true, would like to take a Praevian with Castellax. Or a Cortex Controller'd HQ and bring both Castellax and Thanatar as Legion units. If this is a real thing.

 

This is my dream army.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Praevian with dual Flamer Castellax with a Master crafted Volkite Charger. He gets 2 BS5 Shots with a reroll to hit, that if it hits gives you Preferred Enemy, with 2 S5 Flamer Shots. Have them run forwards early game. While the reroll to hit doesn't really count (sadly, it doesn't work like Twinlinked), you've got S5 flamers providing a reroll of 1's to wound). 

[Fairstrife1138]

That's a pretty awesome idea. And very fluffy for salamanders.

 

I have a rough 2k list IV made today at work I will post up tonight.

[KJB]

Has anyone tried a breacher heavy force?

 

Tooled up with Flamers...

 

My mind likes the look of it but I'm not sure how it would perform

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Any advice for running infanty heavy lists? Also what do people find is good consols?
 

[Slips]

Depends, Rite of War or no Rite of War?

 

Consuls are the Same: What do you plan to use them for in a list? They're all good at what they do -- except the Champion who you're better off paying a bit more points for a Preator instead unless your EC and get stuck taking one.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

I'm not sure, what's the Salamander one like?
In terms of Consols I'm not sure, Atm I have apreator, cataphracti terminator librarian and a Artificer armour chaplain, but I was thinking of converting cataprackti medicae to go with possibly firedrakes or Pyre Guard, or maybe a Master of Signal with drakeshiled and either power axe or thunder hammer to go with my Lascannon devastators.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Rune Priest Ridcully

[God-Potato of Mankind]

In lieu of a Spartan, I've decided to make my Adamantium Coconut airborne. 

 

So I've ordered 5 more 'drakes and a Caestus. I will throw in a Legion Apothecary as a Primus Medicae for a big 'eggs in one basket' assault of 10 Firedrakes with 9 TH/SS 1 HF. 

 

Alas it does upset me that I can't load Vulkan into the Flying Adamantium Coconut :(

 

Who needs to min-max when you can have such fun

Edited August 10, 2015 by The God-Potato of Mankind

[Grizzly Adams]

Just read through the whole thread, lots of good information here. Been collecting 30k for about 8 months, about to get to playing some actual games with these models. With the single consul limitation imposed by covenant of fire, which is the better option to stick in with a EW / TH / SS praetor with 5 TH / SS fire drakes in a Spartan; a Primus medicae for FNP or a chaplain to make them fearless?

 

About to order 20 mkii assault marines for use in 40k games so I can run the skyhammer annihilation force, and was hoping for double duty in 30k. Does anyone have any experience with running salamanders assault squads? Are they worth the points?

 

My list I have built right now to kind of get started

 

Praetor in Terminator armour

+ Cataphractii armour

+ thunder hammer

+ master-crafted

+ Mantle of the Elder Drake

+ The Covenant of Fire

 

• 4 Firedrake Terminators

+ 4× Dragonscale storm shield

+ 4× thunder hammer

+ 1 Firedrake Master

+ Dragonscale storm shield

+ master-crafted thunder hammer

 

Chaplain

+ artificer armour

+ thunder hammer

+ master-crafted

+ refractor field

+ Dragonscale storm shield

 

19 Tactical Space Marines

+ 1 Tactical Sergeant

+ combi-weapon

+ master-crafted weapon

 

19 Tactical Space Marines

+ 1 Tactical Sergeant

+ combi-weapon

+ master-crafted weapon

 

9 Pyroclasts

+ melta bombs

+ 1 Pyroclast Warden

 

Apothecarion Detachment

• Apothecary

• Apothecary

 

Contemptor Mortis Dreadnought

+ 2 Kheres pattern assault cannons

 

Spartan Assault Tank

+ auxiliary drive

+ armoured ceramite

+ flare shield

+ dozer blade

 

Fire Raptor Gunship

+ 4 hellstrike missiles

+ armoured ceramite

 

Whirlwind Scorpius

 

2,495 pts

[Hesh Kadesh]

A Vigilator to give them a Scout move is the best option. 

[Grizzly Adams]

A Vigilator to give them a Scout move is the best option. 

That would certainly get them where they want to be quicker, but is speed more important than staying power?

[Slips]

For a unit like Fire Drakes in a Spartan speed is very much a factor. They want to be in Assault ASAP and wipe units off the board. Getting there anybit slower means theres more chances for their ride to get wrecked and have them stuck footslogging it with no shooting at their disposal.

 

That huge points sink of a unit is now dead in the water.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Slipstreams

[Grizzly Adams]

For a unit like Fire Drakes in a Spartan speed is very much a factor. They want to be in Assault ASAP and wipe units off the board. Getting there anybit slower means theres more chances for their ride to get wrecked and have them stuck footslogging it with no shooting at their disposal.

 

That huge points sink of a unit is now dead in the water.

 

Point well made, foot slogging is not what i want that unit to be doing, for sure.

[Hesh Kadesh]

The other option is to go for a Storm Eagle or Caestus plopped on a Skyshield with Ready For Take Off and run them in that. Deploy it as far forward as possible, load up a Deredeo with a Shield Generator, and put some heavy gun units like Artillery or Heavy Weapon Squads on it to benefit from the 3++.

 

As a fast skimmer, it can flat out first turn; as a Storm Eagle, it has no vital weapons that need to fire first turn. Keeping it cheap is your only real option, you've got an 80pt tax to allow a first turn 18" move. The only difference between that and a Spartan is that a Spartan has a 12" Flat Out, 6" Move, 6" Disembark, 2d6 assault. A Storm Eagle has 24" Flat Out, 6" Move, 6" disembark and 2d6" assault; that's a 12" difference of available movement.

 

Put a Vigilator in the Spartan (might need to shuffle models, or go for a Praetor in Artificer Armour), and you have a 12" Scout in addition to its normal move. It's not going to help it get a first turn charge, sure, but it gives you more maneuverability to get where you need to be, and to put terrain between Line of Sight of enemy Graviton Guns. Of course, the Vigilator is another 85pts on top of the Spartan's considerable 340-350pt cost coming to 425-435pts on top of the unit, while the Fire Raptor+Skyshield is 290-330pts, depending on if you run for Lascannons or not. 

 

Running Lascannons gives you a flat out into the deep enemy lines, and almost certainly a shot on the flank or maybe even rear of an enemy tank during turn 2 with a multimelta/missile launcher and a pair of TL BS5 lascannons. 

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Brothers,

I request your assistance.

 

My Salamanders are about to embark on their quest for revenge, so I'm playing a 2kv2k game tomorrow against the treacherous Word Bearers. I could also be facing the Death Guard, but the store manager sure loves his WB so I'm confident he will field them.

 

Now my list is essentially thus:

'Standard' Praetor (PB, DL, Dragonscale, MotED, Cataamour and Zeroth Conductor Shield)

9 Firedrakes (All TH/SS with one HF/SS)

Loaded up in a Caestus with boomstick, AC, AD & FAL

2x 10 man Tacticools in Rhinos (barebones bar a Vexilla and Artificer for Vsarges)

3x Jetbikes w/Culverin & Sarge

Mortis-dread with 2x AC

Predator w/magnamelta

 

Now this guy fields Primarch's, even in his 2k lists.

 

I am sure his WB list is thusly:

Lorgar (Transfigured)

Erebus & Kor Phaeron

2x Tacticools (9x Barebones)

1x 5 Gal Vorbak

1x Maghara Ghal

Storm Eagle

Drop pods (I think 2)

 

So it's a point heavy sink into a deathstar of Gal Vorbak + HQ Megastompers

 

Now my plan (being a complete beginner at Warhammer in general, not just 30k) is to ram the Caestus directly into his deathstar, can you ram everything? If so I will ram Lorgar, or the Maghara thing. Firedrakes are disgorged and go toe to toe with the Gal Vorbak. I'm confident looking at statlines that a 10 man Firedrake/Praetor deathball will hand the 5 Gal Vorbak & Erebus/Phaeron their tainted butts. Hopefully Lorgar is a pile of slush from the Caestus ram, but I'm overall worried that my Praetor deathball is just insufficient to take on his deathball? I added the Zeroth Conductor shield, as I don't expect much in the way of incoming fire, but the automatic D6 S8 AP2 attacks to all incoming units should really help when he goomba-charges (I assume he will) and gives him the extra attack to make it up to 6 iirc (4 base, 1 from DL, 1 now from Zeroth?) which with his swish Paragon Blade, IS going to ruin something up good and proper.

 

The tacticools move to secure objectives. FotL his tacticals etc. He has drop pods not Rhinos, so I believe I can reach the objective & dig in before him.

 

The Mortis is to try and blap the Storm Eagle, which I belive to be his deathball delivery service. I'm guessing a single 2x AC Mortisdread wouldn't be able to down it instantly, if at all? (If the Storm Eagle disgorges deathball, then vaporises my dread?)

 

The Jetbikes are to scoot & boot the tacticools/generally be a pain.

 

The predator...was for an anti-vehicle smasher to back up the Tacticools. I'm thinking of trying to shoot Lorgar with it now though, or the Mghara Ghal. I looked at the rules for that thing, holy Emperor balls I don't think engaging it in melee would be a good idea! Magnamelta to the face, job done? Please? Please Emperor!

 

Is any of this viable? Or am I about to get the Word shoved In my face in an unpleasant fashion? Anything I could add/change to enhance my Primarch swatting capability?

Edited September 21, 2015 by Flint13
Keeping it classy

[Caillum]

I've posted a reply in your army list topic, as it's probably more fitting there.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Hi guys,

 

I've been up to no good thinking about new ways to deliver heat-based revenge to the enemies of Mankind. I've just picked up the IW Praevian and subject to a lil kitbashing he'll be a Salamander before the week's out.

 

Now what I was thiiiiiiiiiinking was Castellax doomunit. Verily I wish to pick the brains of yous guys.

 

I am thinking a trio of Castellax with Multi-Meltas and two flamers, run under Legion rules & Covenant of Fire to get +1 S flamers and MC M-meltas for maximum painapples. I reckon they'd hit like a truck with those rules.

 

However my issue lies with delivery and the melee options.

 

1) Melee options for the Castellax - default, powerblades or wreckers?

2) Melee options for the Praevian - I was going to take a Stormshield and pfist to give him max survivability while the Castellax punch/burn things to death

3) Delivery method - Castellax = MC. What can transport MC? Spartan? Dreadclaw? Do they run fast? How do I get the burny robots into CC?

Cheers,

Potato

[Caillum]

Nice idea! Could definitely have some legs on it. I also picked up both Ltd Ed models recently!

 

1. I'd keep the default shock chargers, as all the shooting benefits come at very little cost, so you're keeping everything cheap.

2. Yeah, that setup is fine. Also, give him a combi-flamer - he can shoot with the bolter as they advance, but when you're ready for Assault, drop the flamer template down and automatically give the unit Preferred Enemy for the rest of the turn!

3. No transport options for the Castellax - this is the issue with this setup. Unless you take Scout (which invalidates the whole idea) you will have to footslog up the board. At least they have Move Through Cover! :)

 

Castellax are not spectacular in Assault. ABC - Always Be Charging - in order to get their Rage benefit and break the enemy that turn, or they could be tied up for a while.

 

Hope this helps!

[God-Potato of Mankind]

The thought of a combi-flamer attack giving PE is...delicious. It adds even more oomph to a minimal points investment.

 

That tis a damn shame, but MtC is a nice extra then. I suppose, looking at the dimensions, you'd have to disassemble and re-assemble a Castellax to get it into a Spartan :(

 

Still, I am thinking of shielding their inexorable march with a swarm of tacticals as durable meatshields with apocs.

 

I thought about the Vorax but they lack any flamer weapons, or a melta to use the RoW.

Words cannot describe how excited I am for the new Sally RoW. No deepstrike is such a ballache :(

[caladancid]

I don't think the AdMech models get to take advantage of the strength bonus for flamers. Vehicles do in the formation but I think that is all.

 

I could be missing some important rule, if so that's a cool option I will have to think about.

[Slips]

I don't think the AdMech models get to take advantage of the strength bonus for flamers. Vehicles do in the formation but I think that is all.

 

I could be missing some important rule, if so that's a cool option I will have to think about.

Castellax taken as a Praevians Entourage gain the LA:(Praevians Legion) Rule.

 

So in this case, they would.

 

And,  that means that RG Praevian and Castellax have Fleet and Infiltrate, IF Praevian And Castellax gain +1BS to Bolt Weaponry, etc.

[caladancid]

Oh awesome. I didn't save the new Consul rules, which I probably should have checked haha. Thanks!